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  1. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    So are you saying Paul was wrong, or that Peter was not writing to Christians about our Christian faith? There are many verses which imply that he was writing to Christians. How about this verse: 1 Peter 4:16 (WEB): (16) But if one of you suffers for being a Christian, let him not be...
  2. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    I believe Peter's letter was written to Christians, whether they were formerly Jews or gentiles ("Because all of you are one in the Messiah Jesus, a person is no longer a Jew or a Greek, a slave or a free person, a male or a female", Galatians 3:28, ISV): 1 Peter 1:1-3 (ISV): (1) From: Peter...
  3. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    1 Peter 2:9 (WEB): (9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellence of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: If Christians are to be priests in God's kingdom, where will they be...
  4. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Beacause Israel will be representatives of the heavenly Kingdom on the earth, through whose instrumentality the nations may enter into the blessings of the Kingdom. All nations will know that our almighty God is the same God who is the God of Israel. After God told Ezekiel that He would...
  5. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Whether we are the body or the bride of Christ (or both!), we will be dwelling with him. Jesus, our bridegroom, left us to prepare homes for us in his Father's house - John 14:2-3 (WEB): (2) In my Father’s house are many homes. If it weren’t so, I would have told you. I am going to prepare a...
  6. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    2 Corinthians 11:2 (KJV): (2) For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. Barnes' Notes on verse 2 says: That I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ - The allusion here, according to...
  7. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    But that would still be referring to the Church!
  8. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    This passage is talking about the end of the Millennial Age and the beginning of eternity. It says that God will dwell "with men" (Revelation 21:3), or as the ISV translates it "among humans", and that God "will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them...
  9. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    What makes you think that the new Jerusalem represents only "believing Israel"? It says in verse 14 (WEB): (14) The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them twelve names of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb. That is referring to the Church - Ephesians 2:19-22 (WEB): (19) So then...
  10. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Jesus returns in two phases - once to fulfill his promises to his bride, the Church, and secondly in power to fulfill all the commitments that God has laid down in both the Old and New Testaments for a kingdom on the earth. These two events are contrasted by function as: Rapture Second...
  11. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Alternatively, I may have been wrong and the "shout" may be audible on the earth. I say that because the events of Jesus coming for his bride are patterned on the ancient Jewish wedding rituals (or vice versa!). The ritual was: There was a betrothal, or commitmant. The bridegroom had to pay a...
  12. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    How can that be? The judgement occurs at the end of the Millenial Age, 1,000 years after Jesus has set up God's kingdom on the earth. Then all of the "dead" (i.e. all those who at that time have not attained eternal life, which is everyone except the resurrected Church), will be judged...
  13. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    I wasn't getting sidetracked! Remember that I said "Matthew 24 is difficult to follow because Jesus is answering three questions, and it can be difficult to figure out which question is being answered by which verses" (post #370). I did not say that all of Matthew 24 is about the Great...
  14. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Luke 21:20-24 is about the seige of Jerusalem in 70 AD, but verses 25-28 isn't. Nobody saw "the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory" (verse 27) in 70 AD.
  15. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Don't put all your trust in the KJV. In particular, the Old Testament is based on the Masoretic manuscripts which weren't finalised until the 7th and 10th centuries AD, and were deliberately altered to hide the pronunciation of God's name and to hide evidence to support that Jesus was the...
  16. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Yes, but Matthew 24 is difficult to follow because Jesus is answering three questions, and it can be difficult to figure out which question is being answered by which verses. The three questions were, from verse 3, "when will these things be?" (the destruction of the temple buildings), "What is...
  17. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    I don't know how you got all those assumptions from my post (#362) which simply quoted Revelation 7:14! Anyway, read the verse in context. It is referring to the great multitude in heaven, which was made up of people "out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages" (verse 9)...
  18. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    The majority of translations include the word 'the' (49 of the 63 English translations listed on the Bible Gateway website). The Cambridge Bible Notes says: great tribulation] Should be, the great tribulation: the article is strongly emphasised. It probably means, “the great tribulation...
  19. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    Revelation 7:14 (WEB): (14) I told him, “My lord, you know.” He said to me, “These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb’s blood.
  20. keithr

    IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

    I have not commented on Revelation 14 in this thread. You're confusing me with somebody else.