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Right, Jesus had tribulations in this world but we don’t come to the conclusion that He was overcome. In fact He learned obedience, which is exactly how we should look at tribulations. Each trial we endure is an opportunity for us to grow and it becomes a victorious thing. We are more than...

All excellent points except in point #1 and #2 the assumption is made that a NT saint can be overcome in earth bound things. What verses did you use to initially come to the conclusion that NT saints can be overcome by earth bound things?

I agree, Satan made war and overcame the saints. That is clearly stated but the verses that are being looked at in the symbolic book of Revelation should be interpreted in the light of the epistles and gospels. All the verses in the epistles and gospels that talk about physical persecution and...

The affliction and poverty is being looked at as being rich not being overcome. They have to overcome to not be harmed by the second death. It doesn’t seem possible that the church at Smyrna would be overcome while simultaneously they have to overcome in order to not be harmed by the second death.

Also, why would persecution that takes place while we are on earth be considered being overcome and not something to rejoice over? Acts 5:40And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let...

Ok, I agree that persecution has happened to most all Christians in some way or another and there certainly has been quite a few Christians that have died for their faith. None of this is called being “overcome”. The word “overcome” means to lose, be subdued or defeated in some way. How can...

Nope, still don’t see what you’re talking about. All I see is that God can kill both body and soul, which is a reason to fear God but we are commanded to not fear anyone else. Again this verse is not claiming physical death overcomes a Christian, it’s the exact opposite, only death of your soul...

Why exactly are you quoting Matthew 10:28? Christians shouldn’t fear those who kill the body but can’t kill the soul, so when a Christian dies for their faith they aren’t in fear and they are considered worthy by most of us. Why would you consider that to be overcome? Don’t you want to be...

No, I’m saying something in Revelation would be incorrect if it applies to us today. Revelation is true and correct but somethings apply to old covenant saints, just like the stipulations in the Law don’t apply to us today. I have no issues eating a BLT sandwich because of my understanding of...

So you reject Romans 8:35-39 or do you reject the entire book of Romans?

Revelation was written to a Jewish audience and it contains events that happened for them but those events will not happen for us. For example look at Ephesians 6:21, are we to expect Tychicus to make known all things to us today? Ephesians 6:21 But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I...

That can’t be correct though, in Romans 8:35-39 Paul says we are more than conquerors and that nothing will separate us from the love of God. The Saints being given to the beast was past tense when Paul wrote the book of Romans or else Paul was incorrect. Revelation 13 can’t be future or else it...

No, “overcome” can mean either physically or spiritually but as I have been repeating, a Christian can’t be overcome either way, physical or spiritual. You have not yet given any verses that support your view on this. You have yet to show a verse that states a saint can be overcome by being...

Right, but new covenant believers can’t be overcome physically. I’m not sure why you quoted Matthew 10:28, it proves my point, we don’t fear physical killing, we fear God because He can kill both body and soul. Being killed for your faith is an honor, we don’t fear that, we are not overcome by...

Just to be clear, and make sure we are on the same page, the word we are looking at is “overcome” <3528>. nikaó: To conquer, to overcome, to prevail, to gain victory Original Word: νικάω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: nikaó Pronunciation: nee-KAH-oh Phonetic Spelling: (nik-ah'-o)...

Jeremiah 31:36 says If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD. Are you proposing that ordinances remain before God while the sun and moon openly and willfully disobey the ordinances? If that’s the case then how can we trust any of the promises God made in the first place when...

If you have no issues with the sun and moon being replaced by God and Jesus as the light then you should have no problem with the idea of ethnic Israel being replaced by the true Israel of God. In both cases it involves promises being kept through replacement. Really though, the people who are...

Yes I’m aware that Christians have been persecuted and killed throughout history, but unlike you I see it as a privilege and honor to be persecuted and killed for your faith. I’ve seen you state in the past that Revelation needs to be interpreted against the clear teachings of the epistles and...

Here’s my two cents on this, I think no matter what we do with the number 666 the buying and selling has to be looked at in the light of Matthew 21:12-13 where Jesus cast out all (everyone) that bought and sold. Revelation 13:17 doesn’t say what is being bought and sold, so many people just...

Right, the saints are overcome because the scriptures say so. But you are denying other scriptures in order to place that overcoming event in the future. We don’t have to accept a personal defeated status when currently nothing can separate us from the love of God. Romans 8:35Who shall separate...