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  1. keithr

    The Rapture vs. the Pre-tribulational Rapture

    You are jumping to the wrong conclusion. I am not anti-KJV. I just said that its translation of this verse was ambiguous because the Greek word ouranos can be translated as sky or heaven, and I think they chose the wrong interpretation in this case (as the translators of other Bible...
  2. keithr

    The Rapture vs. the Pre-tribulational Rapture

    When Matthew uses the term "his disciples" he was normally referring to Jesus' 12 disciples, who Jesus chose, and who were all Jews (one of whom went on to betray him, and was therefore not one of God's elect). John 8:31 (WEB): Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you...
  3. keithr

    The Rapture vs. the Pre-tribulational Rapture

    Matthew 24:29 (WEB): (29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: That seems to me to be describing events after the great Tribulation...
  4. keithr

    The Rapture vs. the Pre-tribulational Rapture

    Actually Jesus was speaking to his diciples only - Matthew 24:3 (WEB): (3) As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? What is the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?”
  5. keithr

    The Rapture vs. the Pre-tribulational Rapture

    You have misunderstood the verse because of the ambiguous KJV translation. The word translated as heaven can also be translated (more apropriately in this case) as sky. It says "from the four winds", an expression that means everywhere on the earth, e.g. : Jeremiah 49:36 (WEB): (36) I will...
  6. keithr

    The Rapture vs. the Pre-tribulational Rapture

    The elect that are referred to as being gathered in verse 31 are not the church; they are the great multitude of people that live through the great tribulation, mentioned in Revelation 7 (WEB): (13) One of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are arrayed in the white robes, who are...
  7. keithr

    How was Paul : the chief of Sinners....the ULTIMATE Sinner?

    If we read a bit more context we see that Paul considered that he used to be the chief of sinners, but that he had been mercifully forgiven and he no longer sinned like he used to. The "I am chief" could be translated as "I have been chief". 1 Timothy 1:12-16 (WEB): (12) I thank him who...
  8. keithr

    Who are the 144,000?

    I disagree with that. Ephesians 1:3-14 (WEB): (3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ; (4) even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and without...
  9. keithr

    Who are the 144,000?

    In chapter 7 they are on the earth, which is why the angels are told not to harm the earth, and those on it, until the 144,000 have been sealed. In chapter 9 they are still on the earth: (4) They were told that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any...
  10. keithr

    Who are the 144,000?

    The resurrected church is all those Christians who are resurrectred in the first resurrection, including those that are raptured (like an instant death and resurrection). The 144,000 are clearly not a part of the resurrected church. They just are a separate group! I think you have said that...
  11. keithr

    24 Elders

    Except that the innumerable multitude are only those people that believed in Jesus during the Great Tribulation (Revelation 7:14). What about all the Christians that lived from Jesus' first advent up to the rapture? They were all resurrected in the first resurrrection before the Great...
  12. keithr

    24 Elders

    I don't think we can be 100% sure that we correctly understand all of the Scriptures while we are still human. As Paul said, 1 Corinthians 13 (WEB): (12) For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, even as I was also fully known...
  13. keithr

    24 Elders

    Revelation 4:2 (WEB): (2) Immediately I was in the Spirit. Behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting on the throne It doesn't describe what God looks like, it just says "one sitting on the throne", which leads us to suspect that John saw a man, i.e. that God, like the 24...
  14. keithr

    24 Elders

    It's the people who were resurrected in the first resurrection that will sit on thones and judge mankind (jointly with Jesus, who is our head, and King of kings). That's the resurrection of the church, who are represented symbolically by the 24 elders. As I quoted, Revelation 20:6 says: (6)...
  15. keithr

    24 Elders

    I don't think so. In Revelation 1, it says that John "was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day", and hearing a loud voice behind him he turned around and saw "seven golden lamp stands. And among the lamp stands was one like a son of man", and "He had seven stars in his right hand". This was Jesus...
  16. keithr

    Who are the 144,000?

    That's not what it says in Revelation. In chapter 6 the resurrected church is up in heaven watching as Jesus opens the 7 seals on the scroll, ending with "The kings of the earth, the princes, the commanding officers, the rich, the strong, and every slave and free person, hid themselves in the...
  17. keithr

    24 Elders

    Yes. Most things in those passage are symbolic and representative of something. I'm pretty sure that the glorified Jesus doesn't look like a slain lamb which has seven horns and seven eyes. Remember, we will be like him (1 John 3:2) - are we too going to look like seven horned and seven eyed...
  18. keithr

    Who are the 144,000?

    Chapters two and three of Revelation are the letters from Jesus to the seven churches. These letters are also prophetic of the church during the Gospel age. Then in Rev. 4:1 John describes a voice from heaven saying “Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter”, i.e. he...
  19. keithr

    Studying the Septuagint (LXX)

    10%? Did it mistranslate the passage? In that case the quotation of it in Hebrews 10:5 is also a mistranslation. That's what the LXX translators did - they were 72 Jewish translaters, 6 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. They understood their Hebrew language and also Greek.
  20. keithr

    Studying the Septuagint (LXX)

    Proverbs 25:2 (WEB): (2) It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the glory of kings is to search out a matter. Incorrect or misleading translation can prevent us from discovering the hidden things in the Scriptures. Like the hidden message in Genesis 5 that is made more difficult for...