How was Paul : the chief of Sinners....the ULTIMATE Sinner?

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Behold

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Let me show you how to understand and teach others this verse, as this one baffles a lot of believers, who are taught it wrong, and it leads them into a misunderstanding about Paul, and often about "sinning".
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PAUL said "" Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners, of whom I am (the) Chief".

So, that isn't Paul saying..>"im sinning", as the heretics teach it., worldwide.

What Paul is showing you, is that of sinners in general, He was the WORST OF ALL..

the "CHIEF"....before Jesus saved Him.

How was he the CHIEF?

He was murdering Christians......having them Killed.....Murdered.......and He's showing you that The Grace of God, is so Forgiving, that it took this WORST TYPE OF SINNER....>" one who Kills CHRISTIANS".........this CHIEF OF SINNERS......and Jesus made Him the greatest Apostle and Greatest Christian who ever lived..

That is what he is explaining..
He's really just giving Praise to the remarkable Grace of God that used someone like Him to do so much for God.

Preachers like me, call this becoming :

" A Trophy of God's Grace"

And God knows that Paul was every bit of that and more..
 
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Wrangler

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PAUL said "" Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners, of whom I am (the) Chief".

So, that isn't Paul saying..>"im sinning", as the heretics teach it., worldwide.
Your IDOLATRY is so complete that you deny the literal words of God. Paul indeed said I am the chieft sinner (present tense). Your whole doctrine depends on pretending he meant past tense.

I would agree with you IF it weren't for the many verses that say otherwise, including if this verse read "I was the Chief sinner" (past tense).
 

Gospel Believer

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I believe that Paul considered himself “ The Chief Of Sinners “ because he was close to God......The Closer That one gets to God , the farther away he sees himself as being....
 

keithr

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I would agree with you IF it weren't for the many verses that say otherwise, including if this verse read "I was the Chief sinner" (past tense).
If we read a bit more context we see that Paul considered that he used to be the chief of sinners, but that he had been mercifully forgiven and he no longer sinned like he used to. The "I am chief" could be translated as "I have been chief". 1 Timothy 1:12-16 (WEB):

(12) I thank him who enabled me, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he counted me faithful, appointing me to service;​
(13) although I used to be a blasphemer, a persecutor, and insolent. However, I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.​
(14) The grace of our Lord abounded exceedingly with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.​
(15) The saying is faithful and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.​
(16) However, for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first, Jesus Christ might display all his patience, for an example of those who were going to believe in him for eternal life.​
 
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Behold

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Your IDOLATRY is so complete that you deny the literal words of God. Paul indeed said I am the chieft sinner (present tense). Your whole doctrine depends on pretending he meant past tense.

I would agree with you IF it weren't for the many verses that say otherwise, including if this verse read "I was the Chief sinner" (past tense).

Im not responsive for your issue with only reading a bible as if its a phone book or a dictionary.
I promise you that the word of God is not to be read, its to be revealed.
You are welcome to now pretend "well, behold, i know that"
But if you did, you would not always be found on this forum trying to use the word of God to deny the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.


so, Heretics read the verse this way......

"Im Chiefly sinning".

But Paul does not say that he is a sinner.
He said He is the "chief"., and point of view is regarding = BEFORE he was born again.

Wrangler, I dont expect you to come to this understanding anytime soon, as you are a Legalist, who uses the bible to deny the blood atonement, , instead of trusting in Christ to Keep you saved.
 

Behold

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If we read a bit more context we see that Paul considered that he used to be the chief of sinners, but that he had been mercifully forgiven and he no longer sinned like he used to. T

Yes.

Paul is giving his TESTIMONY.
Its really that simple.

It would be like any of us standing up in a Church and giving Jesus public praise for what we USE TO BE LIKE before God transformed us with the Cross of Christ.

Prior to his conversion.. Paul was a really devout religious Pharisee, who Hated "Christ" and the early believers and many were murdered because of his efforts.
He was trying to get rid of this "religious plague", and Jesus met Him in person and Paul was TRANSFORMED from being the "chief of sinners", to the greatest BELIEVER who ever lived.

That is God's AMAZING GRACE, and Paul is a Trophy of God's Amazing Grace.

Reader, Paul went from being the "chief of sinners" to the Greatest born again Saint of all time.
 

Robert Gwin

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Let me show you how to understand and teach others this verse, as this one baffles a lot of believers, who are taught it wrong, and it leads them into a misunderstanding about Paul, and often about "sinning".
-

PAUL said "" Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners, of whom I am (the) Chief".

So, that isn't Paul saying..>"im sinning", as the heretics teach it., worldwide.

What Paul is showing you, is that of sinners in general, He was the WORST OF ALL..

the "CHIEF"....before Jesus saved Him.

How was he the CHIEF?

He was murdering Christians......having them Killed.....Murdered.......and He's showing you that The Grace of God, is so Forgiving, that it took this WORST TYPE OF SINNER....>" one who Kills CHRISTIANS".........this CHIEF OF SINNERS......and Jesus made Him the greatest Apostle and Greatest Christian who ever lived..

That is what he is explaining..
He's really just giving Praise to the remarkable Grace of God that used someone like Him to do so much for God.

Preachers like me, call this becoming :

" A Trophy of God's Grace"

And God knows that Paul was every bit of that and more..
I am unaware of Paul killing Christians Be, do you have an example of this recorded in the Bible sir?
 

Behold

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do you have an example of this recorded in the Bible sir?

Acts 8:1


also...
Paul speaking..

""""And Paul said, 'Lord, they themselves know that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and I beat those who believed in you. 20 And when the blood of Stephen j your witness was being shed, I myself was standing by and l approving and watching over the garments of those who killed him.' 21 And Jesus said to me, 'Go, for I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"

Paul became the "Apostle to the Gentile" and he wrote most of the New Testament Epistles.

Romans 11:13
 
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Wrangler

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you would not always be found on this forum trying to use the word of God to deny the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.
No. We simply disagree on who the finished work of Christ applies to. If your doctrine were correct, universalism would be correct doctrine.
 

Behold

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No. We simply disagree on who the finished work of Christ applies to. If your doctrine were correct, universalism would be correct doctrine.

The finished work of Jesus applies here..

"Jesus came into the world, to save sinners".

Any other Questions ??, or do you just want to post more opinion and similar, Wrangler, so that your ministry as a forum Troll continues to be revealed by you.?
 

Taken

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Your IDOLATRY is so complete that you deny the literal words of God. Paul indeed said I am the chieft sinner (present tense). Your whole doctrine depends on pretending he meant past tense.

I would agree with you IF it weren't for the many verses that say otherwise, including if this verse read "I was the Chief sinner" (past tense).

I believe the point is;
Saul (Hebrew Name), was a Jew, via birthright, and practice. Was past tense, because he is mortally dead.
Paul (Gentile Name), was a Roman Citizen, via birthright. Was past tense, because he is mortally dead.

While alive, as Saul, a Jew, he was a Pharisee, highly educated in Mosaic/Jewish Law.
Jewish Law, dictated that God would send a Messiah.
Jewish Law, dictated that ANY man who claimed to BE God, (and claiming to THEE Personal Son of God, is the same as Claiming to BE God), was A blasphemous claim, which Jewish Law, dictated was worthy of Death.

Saul, like many Jews, Viewed Jesus’ claims, God was HIS Father, HE was the personal Son of God, to be a claim worthy of Death.
No Doubt, Jesus arriving on scene, with His Claims, Did cause Many Staunch Jews to Challenge His Claims.

Saul, was on Staunch Mission, to not only BE Against the Jews that were following and believing Jesus, But Saul, was on a Staunch Mission to seek, round up and imprison them.

I believe AS Paul, “Converted”, taught in the First Person, using himself SAUL, as a example of being the Chief Sinner....having not only been against believers in Christ Jesus, but convincing others to not believe, AND persecuting those who did believe. Teaching in the first Person, as WAS SAUL in his own gravity, AND even as horrible as he was; The Lord will forgive a truly repentant person, as Paul IS.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

MatthewG

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Paul even counts himself as less than the apostles.

1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
 

Robert Gwin

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Acts 8:1


also...
Paul speaking..

""""And Paul said, 'Lord, they themselves know that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and I beat those who believed in you. 20 And when the blood of Stephen j your witness was being shed, I myself was standing by and l approving and watching over the garments of those who killed him.' 21 And Jesus said to me, 'Go, for I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"

Paul became the "Apostle to the Gentile" and he wrote most of the New Testament Epistles.

Romans 11:13
I didn't think you would be able to sir. I didn't actually think Paul killed Christians, but when you said that I thought you might have been aware of something I hadn't found before. Thanks for trying though. I wondered why Jesus would personally select him to be the apostle to the nations if he would have been guilty of murdering a Christian. Being a Pharisee however he was authorized to bring them in for trial. He was perhaps a bit over exemplary in that assignment.
 

Ghada

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Let me show you how to understand and teach others this verse, as this one baffles a lot of believers, who are taught it wrong, and it leads them into a misunderstanding about Paul, and often about "sinning".
-

PAUL said "" Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners, of whom I am (the) Chief".

So, that isn't Paul saying..>"im sinning", as the heretics teach it., worldwide.

What Paul is showing you, is that of sinners in general, He was the WORST OF ALL..

the "CHIEF"....before Jesus saved Him.

How was he the CHIEF?

He was murdering Christians......having them Killed.....Murdered.......and He's showing you that The Grace of God, is so Forgiving, that it took this WORST TYPE OF SINNER....>" one who Kills CHRISTIANS".........this CHIEF OF SINNERS......and Jesus made Him the greatest Apostle and Greatest Christian who ever lived..

That is what he is explaining..
He's really just giving Praise to the remarkable Grace of God that used someone like Him to do so much for God.

Preachers like me, call this becoming :

" A Trophy of God's Grace"

And God knows that Paul was every bit of that and more..
I completely agree. Good job.

It's obvious that Paul was speaking of his past transgressions against God and His people, in the name of his Jews Religion. He is teaching that no matter what state of sin any man could be in, that if we just repent and believe God's gospel, He has more than enough grace and power to save us from our old life.

God's trophies are past sinners made present saints. New creatures changed completely from old monsters.

The Christians that try to say Paul was speaking of himself as a murderer and persecutor of the church, after his conversion to Jesus Christ, simply have no credibility, because they are obviously just trying to justify their own continued sinful life today, that they have not yet repented of.