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Came to Christ at age 23 after atheism, received the Holy Spirit aged 40.

@Ritajanice I count the ante nicene fathers as having much more credibility regarding Bible interpretation. As has already been pointed out in this discussion, there have been things lost in translation to the west and just look at he mess it is in with 40K denominations. They do not agree...

Please keep in mind I am working through this not presenting it as dogma. One spiritual birth on one level and then the higher birth if we consent to the crucifixion.

I agree that we receive the Holy Spirit at the first encounter with Christ but we are not baptized or saturated. He cannot dwell within us if we still sin though he is with us.

Yes I guess that is so. Without sin.

No it was clear that Jesus was saying the flesh and spirit cannot be combined. I mean coming to Christ first Spiritual birth then baptism in the Spirit second Spiritual birth

Not sure I am getting you but yes to us being born with a spirit

To me it's the transaction between us and God to be admitted to the 'higher walk' or whatever which is in the words of scripture consenting to crucified with Christ or losing our lives totally so that we do whatsoever Christ requires of us, which is not required for entry into the first stage...

YES! A higher transaction is required.

I believe it is because the first birth in the Spirit is not enough for us to be united to God as we still have that inclination to sin which stops Him from full communion with us. We have many lessons to learn first as we are so damaged.

We are able to 'read between the lines' in scripture especially knowing human nature. A covert Christian Jewish leader would be under extreme pressure to keep his faith hidden. Otherwise he would lose his job and possibly his life. We must not judge him on this as he did come to Jesus for help...

Yes that was my experience as well in the supernatural birth after atheism when my whole world was turned upside down and all of the questions I had thought about were answered. But as I have posted elsewhere, it took 17 years for me to be crying out to the Lord for an answer to my failures in...

If you don't mind, I can explain it best according to Orthodox theology, that the walk of the believer is in three stages: 1) Purification: when one has already come to Christ for forgiveness, and the Holy Spirit works on them to convince them that their state does not fill that desire for God...

I may not have been clear so just in case, I mean that two spiritual births are required not a physical plus a spiritual. That does not make sense to me.

As was pointed out by Jesus, the flesh and the spirit are different. Born for the second time of the flesh is impossible, so it must be a second birth in the spiritual realm.

I'm sorry if I missed any questions or comments so please let me know if there are any.

In Greece, there is a period when the blistering sun goes down, between 6 - 8 pm in both summer and winter, that people will don their best attire and go for a stroll with their families having been generally stuck inside during the heat of the day. Then often they will meet up with friends to...

The hardest part of our training is moving from the natural to the spiritual. All that is fleshy is not sin but will lead to sin. Example, it is natural to be hungry but God might want us to fast. So we give up the natural to the spiritual. Not a good example maybe but I am tired and need to...

@marks Christ coming again is often interpreted in holiness circles as His coming at the 'second blessing' and I can see Paul meaning this, as conviction of sin is the sign He has come whereby the Holy Spirit reveals our sin which has been hidden from us. Paul did not judge himself rightly as it...

@Azim Enlightened about various matters that had been troubling me. Was given clarity about them in an instant. Chronic health problems and what to do. What diet I should be on. Problems at the church I have been attending about the source. Problems with people where I am living and who is...