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@Tong2020 So, do you or do you not believe that God preordains people to be lost antagonists (of converted people), destined for eternal torment? It's a simple question. :D

No problem at all Thanks, once again for NOT answering my question.

Oppositional behavior can be treated. I don't deny Scripture--merely your twisting of it. And I abhor the way you twist other people's words. :mad::p:eek::rolleyes:o_O You have provided nothing to invalidate the fact that: <<<The Cross does nothing to reconcile unrepentant sinners to a Holy God.>>>

I would tend to agree. :) Which is what it is. One can only expect that God preserves a person's life while he is under conviction and until he either chooses to follow Christ or grieves His Spirit away. Which is, no doubt, grace abounding.

Do you or do you not believe that God preordains people to be lost antagonists (of converted people), destined for eternal torment?

Perhaps I should have emboldened and underlined UNREPENTANT. SINNERS WHO NEVER REPENT ARE NOT RECONCILED. YOU SUCCEEDED IN MISSING MY POINT COMPLETELY. IMAGINE THAT.

But isn't this really a vague and sweeping generalization that just confuses people? I mean, I agree with you because the goal of atonement is to restore the image of God in mankind fully, which has to lead eventually to complete sinlessness, but isn't there more that needs to be said? What is a...

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No, I was arguing against a biblical "middle ground" between total depravity and regeneration. A person is either born again or not--has always been my understanding. I know of no Theological fence upon which one may sit. You know, it's everywhere in the Bible: "Why halt ye between two...

As much as we owe to the Reformers, they all had some goofy ideas. :)

You might want to study up on the word "atonement." The Cross does nothing to reconcile unrepentant sinners to a Holy God. It does however grant them a probation period in which to make a free will decision to follow Jesus Christ or follow Him not. Even sinners who eventually repent should, by...

Well, whatever answer he gives, it's got to be better than predestination as taught by staunch Calvinism, which makes a cruel, monstrous God in man's image.

Spoken like a dyed-in-the-wool Calvinist. :)

Luv u 2, CL. ;) My father-in-law told me a story about a pastor he was studying with who said he could kill his neighbor and molest his wife and he'd still go to Heaven. :eek::confused::rolleyes:o_O That's just sick.

@Tong2020 @justbyfaith I find it amusing, if not hilarious, when folks pretend they're not influenced by human teachers. :rolleyes::p:D:)

Don't be ridiculous. Of course, it does. :D:p

Nothing you say here validates your point. You're arguing with yourself. Saying the same thing over and over again while also agreeing to an opposing reality is either stubborn or deliberately obtuse. You said yourself that a person is lost until they come to Christ for salvation. This leaves no...

Hence no "middle ground" or "halfway point."

I sure do. A regular make-believe Paradox. God is not the author of confusion.

So what condition are these folks in while they are thus being led--lost or born again? And how long is this "short period of time" that encapsulates the "middle ground?"