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  1. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    Do you believe that all mankind will crush the head of the devil? You appear to make the concession that it is possible that the verse speaks about the coming messiah. Isn’t what this boils down to simply that you don’t believe the NT? Denying that it is a messianic prophecy is absurd to...
  2. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    So then you, as a Jew, do not believe the Genesis passage is a messianic prophecy. The Jewish NT writers did believe it is a messianic prophecy. That’s helpful in establishing why you don’t believe Jesus of Nazareth is “THE messiah”. When combined with other messianic prophecies … The NT...
  3. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    “Biblical Judaism teaches that Messiah’s lineage will be a key criterion for his identification. Modern Judaism downplays this, perhaps because Jewish records were destroyed in 70 CE along with the Second Temple. Therefore, one must conclude that either Messiah came before the Temple was...
  4. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    I was looking at Frydland’s appendix. He lists Hebrews 2:16 (the unnamed author of Hebrews) and Galatians 3:29 (Paul) as NT fulfillment of the prophecy. I understand that you reject the NT. I believe you understand that I accept the NT. It’s a Jewish affair. Jews against vs. Jews for.
  5. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    The offspring of the woman.
  6. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    No. Lots of people, in some sense, messiahs. I get that. What I’m interested in is your thoughts on “THE messiah”. I believe “THE messiah” is only one person. (No need to repeat who I believe that one person is.) Thanks. I’m aware of what a messiah is. Again, my interest is primarily focused...
  7. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    Sure. Appendix III in his book (“Messiah in the Tanach”) lists and briefly describes the following: Prophecy Genesis 3:15 Genesis 22:18 Genesis 21:12 Genesis 18:14 Genesis 49:10 Daniel 9:26 2 Samuel 7:12-13 Jeremiah 23:5 Isaiah 7:14 Micah 5:2 Psalm 72 Haggai 2:7,9 Malach 3:1 Psalm 45:7 Isaiah...
  8. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    “There are two very distinct lines of prophecy in the Scriptures concerning the Messiah. One line portrays him as a humble suffering-savior. The other line depicts him as a conquering king-redeemer. These two competing functions of the Messiah are recognized in Talmudic and other Jewish sources...
  9. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    God is his biological father (via the overshadowing of his spirit). Joseph is his father by adoption. Mary is his biological mother. Both Joseph and Mary are descendants of David. Your Jewish view vs. the Jewish view of the NT writers and followers of the Jew from Nazareth. Have you ceased...
  10. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    Frydland lists them in his book. “Humble,“ is the word I would use. Neither do I. I believe in a crucified and resurrected messiah. That’s interesting. The NT witness is that when the messiah returns he will come in the clouds, just as they observed him ascend in the clouds. That’s...
  11. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    Thank you. That’s a dividing line between you and I. The Jewish writers of the NT see the messianic prophecies being fulfilled in a one-person messiah. You’ve decided in favor of the rabbis and their explanation of two messiah’s; I’ve decided in favor of the NT writers and their explanation of...
  12. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    You’re aware that the birth narratives in Matthew and Luke assert that he was supernaturally begotten by his God / conceived by his mother. The genealogies trace his human ancestry to David, Abraham and others, including Adam. When I think about the birth narratives, almost invariably I think...
  13. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    He was referring to Daniel 9:24-26. It occurs in a discussion concerning when the prophesied messiah was to come.
  14. Matthias

    The happy thread

  15. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    “The rabbis also were aware the Tanach predicted that Messiah would be both humiliated and exalted. They tried to resolve this apparent contradiction in three different ways. The first possibility developed in the Talmud was that Messiah existed from before the creation of the world and came to...
  16. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    “It was Daniel’s prophecy that challenged me many years ago to consider the Messiahship of Yeshua the Nazarene.” (Rachmiel Frydland, What the Rabbis Know About the Messiah, Third Edition, p. 93)
  17. Matthias

    Prayer for brother in torment

    Praying for him.
  18. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    His contention is that it is written in the Tanakh but is not explicit there; it is made explicit by Jewish writers in the New Testament. Jews - yourself excepted - whom I’ve spoken with and read thought it is an important subject. Many Christians subscribe or give their consent to the...
  19. Matthias

    The happy thread

  20. Matthias

    Who is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53?

    Have you by chance ever read What the Rabbis Know About the Messiah? The author is Rachmiel Ferydland. He was an Orthodox Jew from Poland who converted to (Nicene) Christianity just prior to the Second World War. His book discusses messianic prophecies and makes no attempt to persuade readers...