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“A hocus pocus standoff” - now that captured my attention. A saying that unique deserves musical accompaniment to memorialize it. I give you from 1973, “Hocus Pocus,” by a group called Focus. When I listen to music, I hear theology. From now on, whenever I hear that piece I’ll be reminded...

I don’t agree with your statement, and that is reflected by my continued participation in the discussion. I believe that, when done properly, it produces a win-win situation. Why do you continue to participate in discussions which you believe are “futile, a no win situation”? I’m just curious.

It means that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

“Hear O Israel, Jehovah our Gods is one God.” - the trinitarian OP, in “Did Trinitarians invent the Trinity - 1” A sincere mistranslation of Deuteronomy 6:4; the Messiah’s unitarian creed. The Messiah’s response? Corrected. “I believe in three Gods and they are one God.” - another...

Listen to Jesus. He’s a non-trinitarian.

Offered in support of the one God. ”1. The one God. (a) theos is the most frequent designation of God in the NT. Belief in the one, only and unique God (Matt. 23:9; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Gal. 3:20; 1 Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19) is an established part of Christian tradition. Jesus himself made the...

Thousands. Survey all of the non-trinitarian groups which have existed throughout history. It’s a broad category. Judaism is the one in that group which interests me. There was a time when I wouldn’t have even thought twice about it. Yes.

It did. His concept of the Trinity isn’t anything like later orthodoxy. It also changed later, when trinitarians began abandoning orthodoxy but still called what they believed trinitarianism. That’s what Dr. Harold O.J. Brown spent his life combatting.

Thanks for your response. Trinitarians fall into three groups: 1. Those who say the Trinity is one self. 2. Those who say the Trinity is three selfs. You are in this group. 3. Those who don’t say one way or the other. Scripture doesn’t have anything to say about “God Himselfs”. Do I think...

The formulation process started before the 4th century. Church history is clear about when, where, how, and why and by whom it was developed. Neither Moses, Jesus nor the apostles had anything to do with it. As for when it changed - a point which I appreciate you acknowledging; many...

A Jesus who would know or believe in 3 deities who are one God isn’t the Jesus who knows and believes that his God and my God is only one person, the Father. Trinitarianism has strayed so far away from it’s 4th century teaching.

Yo.

What can you tell me about the Christian / trinitarian belief that the Trinity is 3 Deities and they are one God, about which there is nothing in scripture to study on the subject? Is that what you think Jesus himself believes?

Thank you for making that clear for me. I’ll address you as a trinitarian.

I’ve read many of your posts but not all of them. I’m still uncertain about how you self-identify. Do you call yourself a trinitarian? Do you have an issue with others calling you a trinitarian? Are you a trinitarian?

Do you self-identify as trinitarian?

Jesus the Roman Catholic (or Protestant) is every bit as fictional as Jesus the trinitarian. How did the Church get from unitarian (the faith of the founder) to trinitarian? Church history provides the answer.

Of course he did. Christianity began as a sect of, and within, Judaism. Christianity is Jewish. But Christianity later changed. It didn’t stay Jewish. It didn’t remain a sect of, and within, Judaism. See Church history. Jesus himself was, is, and always will be a unitarian.

Jesus met the first criteria. He has a God. Jesus didn’t meet the second criteria. He isn’t a trinitarian. Jesus the trinitarian is a fiction. Jesus the unitarian is an historical fact.

His religion is still Judaism. He isn’t at odds with traditional Judaism. He’s at odds with fellow Jews about whether or not he is the promised Messiah.