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Get a hold of yourself. No Christian calls Jesus a liar. I didn’t call Jesus a liar. I straight out called Jesus a man who thinks like what he is, a Jew.

Why do you think that’s a mystery? Don’t you believe that John believed Jesus is the second person of the Trinity and that many people saw him? Don’t you believe that John thought Jesus was walking around and talking to people in the days of the Old Testament?

I don’t think there’s any mystery about it. No one has ascended to heaven, but he who descended from heaven (i.e. Jesus). There are only two possibilities with Enoch and Elijah: 1. They were taken into the sky and deposited somewhere other than the highest heaven; or 2. They were exceptions...

Let’s begin by looking at the first clause - “No one has ascended into heaven” - and think back to Enoch and Elijah. Do you place them in heaven? If so, when?

It was the glory that was promised to him that was with God before the world was. He wasn’t with the Father before creation, he was created by the Father in the womb of the virgin. That’s not what happens when a person is begotten and conceived. The concept you’re describing has more in...

I think we can dispense with heaven in our discussion. Heaven isn’t the destination of the dying. I’ve made the assumption that we both believe humans are mortal. If that’s a bad assumption, please correct me. What do mortals / humans become when clothed with immortality? If they are no...

“God was Three Best Friends before the beginning of creation”? With whom? With himself? God was Three Best Friends with himself before the beginning of creation. Is that what we’re being asked here to believe?

“We have then here, from the mouth of the angel himself, an authentic explanation of the term Son of God in the former part of his message. After this explanation, Mary could only understand the title in this sense: a human being of whose existence God Himself is the immediate author. It does...

It is there because Jesus put it there. It is what is going to happen. Neither. I know it and he is right.

No. I’m going to stick my neck out and say that @RLT63 will vouch for me that I have. Elijah was alive, not dead, when he was taken up into the sky. Our conversation has been focused on what happens to the dead, not what happens to those who haven’t died. Paging @RLT63. Line 2, please...

Yes. He was a mortal human person. He is now an immortal human person. What do you think mortal human persons become when they are clothed with immortality?

There are no human persons in heaven, with one exception. The only human person in heaven right now is Jesus* - changed from mortal to immortal via resurrection from the dead. Resurrection is the only pathway to life. Until a deceased human person is resurrected from his or her grave, there...

There you have it @RLT63. If you don’t believe that God created Jesus then you believe in “another Jesus”. Does it matter? I think it does; you’ve said that it doesn’t.

The Greek philosophers taught that souls, all souls, are immortal. Scripture teaches that all souls are mortal, with the possibility of becoming immortal. That is conditional immortality.

What need is there for the second resurrection described in Revelation?

God created Jesus by the Holy Spirit. You say it is true. I say it is true. Trinitarianism says it is false. Our conversation is between two non-trinitarians.

God and Christ; not God and God. That settles it for me. You can stop now too, if you’re so inclined.

No one is punished before they are judged? When are the wicked judged?

I’m a resurrection man. You’re feeding me Greek philosophy.

God created Jesus.