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No Problem, I am 78 so I know the problem. I will take this opportunity to say I am really disappointed in this forum with the one exception being you, which is the reason I bothered to respond. So I will be searching for greener pastures but will monitor this one for anything interesting...

Uh.......I believe this was 009s last response to satan being our fleshly nature:" Not that it matters, we can only see what God reveals.

See post #140, hope it helps.

The word actually means adversary, tempter, deciever, so yes he is a trouble/mischief maker.Who have you ever known in your life who could be all these things to you besides your self or some other person? Your or someone elses fleshly nature, right? Satan is our fleshly nature.

If we can't have a straight discussion, I am not interested.

Let us see where the conversation goes with 009 first.

The question I asked is, who is satan? Then we can get to, is he a servant of God.

You still seem in a rambling way trying to dis. preachers and teachers which are God appointed tools of learning if we have discernment. Some do a better job than others obviously but the way you oti and others put them down shows a lack of knowledge to me. PS:Your comment about satan being a...

Then it is just one more of the many things we are blind about. If you are interested go back and read post #105 slowly and carefully and get back with me.

I suppose whatever we think is right, unless He shows us something different.

It is we twinc but should not be entered into without the most caution, wisdom, understanding and love God has made available to us.

So, you agree preachers, teachers and commentaries, which are basically by teachers and preachers, as much as they are able o speak for God, can be very helpful? After all, these offices are sanctioned by the Lord, no need to be so negative about them. There are several definitions for church...

hmm.... doesn't seem to have anything to do with the price of tea in China:) are you avoiding post #105? Truth doesn't fall anywhere, it stands immutable, we just seek to discover it.

Thanks for the history lesson on the Eskimo and the ills of the church. Any chance of getting back on point?

What you and oti are saying applies to all preachers teachers as well but most of them are just trying to help and if they are honest they will tell you to check them out.

What makes you think we are not relying on the Spirit also, I will take all the help I can get.

Obviously it has not been put down by twinc. It applies to us but how it applies does not seem to be clearly understood. Eskimos need veggies also;)

oti said:"From my perspective / POV, it is with most of them. Can't say that I've really seen any that I put any stock into. I pretty much threw out commentaries within the first year of my "belief", and I'd be willing to say, it was probably within the first six months. Though I have since seen...

Twinc is making the same mistake I did, addressing the context the words are used in, not realizing there would be someone who would not understand the meaning of the words.

John Calvin does an even better job of explaining:The substance of it is this: Whoever, after committing a crime, humbly confesses his fault, and entreats the Church to forgive him, is absolved not only by men, but by God himself; and, on the other hand, whoever treats with ridicule the reproofs...