Need some help on this verse...binding things on earth

[Richard_oti]

well, they got "published" by a house that made a profit

Indubitably!

 

[Richard_oti]

John Calvin<snip>

In other words, as Jesus taught, for men to judge other men they had better be right.

Which really, for all of that, didn't answer my question.

John 20:23 whose soever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Succinctly, what is the overall context of Matthew 18 with regard to "bind and loosen"?

 

[Richard_oti]

oti said:"From my perspective / POV, it is with most of them. Can't say that I've really seen any that I put any stock into. I pretty much threw out commentaries within the first year of my "belief", and I'd be willing to say, it was probably within the first six months. Though I have since seen others use a myriad of them, can't say that I have seen much of it worth reading."
WOW!

Are you truly that shocked? Or simply playing to the [perceived] audience? Perhaps you shall discover things for yourself, or, perhaps remain naive. As they say, ignorance is bliss. And some people, I would not deprive them of it.

"And Daniel was deeply troubled by this, his face pale ... was disturbed and ill for days"

 

[Richard_oti]

What makes you think we are not relying on the Spirit also, I will take all the help I can get.

Understood. But also remember, that what has been read, shall invariably influence the outcome to some degree or another. Especially if one "trusts" that such is "true", whether it is or not.

 

[Richard_oti]

What you and oti are saying applies to all preachers teachers as well but most of them are just trying to help and if they are honest they will tell you to check them out.

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts; 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables.


I second what @bbyrd009 has already stated.

Most are "good" people. However, I have also spoken privately with several Pastors which have said one thing behind closed doors, and preached another thing from the pulpit. The first time I encountered such, I was mildly shocked. However my shock, was my lack of understanding / knowledge.

Let me ask you: If a Pastor, even a good well meaning one who is just trying to help, admits one thing in private yet preaches the party line, what does that say to you?

They are under contract. It's a "job", and they receive a paycheck. A paycheck that is ... not too bloody shabby. However, it is also a difficult job.

I also know Pastors that have been "terminated" from their position for not preaching that which was required by their "contract". IOW: The party line.

BTW: Even cult leaders will tell you to "check them out". That has become a cliche, a platitude. A means to placate.

Even your own words above affirm as much. For you state that if they are "honest", they will tell you to check them out. The implication being, that if they don't do so, they are less "honest". Thus your own thoughts are revealed that some are more "honest" than others. And by such words, that you have been placated, soothed, mollified, calmed.

"It is usual for the sacred historian to conform himself to the generally accepted opinion of the masses in his time." - Jerome, P.L., XXVI, 98; XXIV, 855.

 

[amadeus]

Let us see where the conversation goes with 009 first.

OK

 

[jimd]

OK

See post #140, hope it helps.

 

[bbyrd009]

If we can't have a straight discussion, I am not interested.

if satan is personified to you, then nonsense is more revealing anyway imo, but to give it straight, we are, or one is described as 'two men in a bed,' or i guess the characterization of an angel on one shoulder and a little devil on the other also works fine? Whatever gets one away from scapegoat imo

satan is our flesh nature, i just saw you say somewhere, yes.

 

[bbyrd009]

Understood. But also remember, that what has been read, shall invariably influence the outcome to some degree or another. Especially if one "trusts" that such is "true", whether it is or not.

yes, this is a very important point imo. One can be influenced by information, whether it is true or not. The first to tell his side in a matter seems correct, until another comes and examines him

 

[Miss Hepburn]

...satan is our flesh nature....

So that's who is telling me to have a second
piece of cheesecake....I knew it wasn't me....cuz I know better!!

 

[amadeus]

John 11:44, And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

Those bound in grave clothes must have them removed and who does the removing? Who did the binding?

I would say the person was dead [spiritually dead to God] when he entered the funeral home [a very dead church group dealing in dead doctrines & such] and instead of helping him to find and receive the Life which Jesus offered to whosoever will, they bound him up in their own doctrines of death so that he would go directly to the grave with no opportunity given to come out of it alive. Jesus bypassed their efforts, and the dead man did come out alive [born again], but in need of proper ministers [as per Eph 4:11-14] to loose him from those very restrictive bonds of a church of men in favor of God's Church.

 

[amadeus]

well i would like to be the first to admit then that this is meant by me at least by way of self examination, and even the poorly defined term "preacher" does serve God, yes. But it also cannot be denied that he is in business, he has signed a contract with the gov, he is a seller, and he has buyers for his product. Was every Pharisee evil? No. Is there a single Pharisee that we could accuse of not serving God? Also no. Even the one praying the Pharisees' Prayer, right. Now of course that Pharisee will be embarrassed to learn how he was serving, but all are deceived, me too, and i do not mean to give clergy less than their due. Yes, they serve God too, and we are called to forgive. But we are also called to judge ourselves, which imo speaking generally about a concept like this manifests.

is every ordained pastor evil, of course not, we are all evil, and he is just one of us

Probably some of these pastors and ministers swing back and forth in their service between the right hand and the left hand of God. They may be deluded in a measure but whose fault is that? If one loves the truth always, will God not always bring him into the proper place?

 

[amadeus]

See post #140, hope it helps.

Thanks.

 

[Armadillo]

I would say the person was dead [spiritually dead to God] when he entered the funeral home [a very dead church group dealing in dead doctrines & such] and instead of helping him to find and receive the Life which Jesus offered to whosoever will, they bound him up in their own doctrines of death so that he would go directly to the grave with no opportunity given to come out of it alive. Jesus bypassed their efforts, and the dead man did come out alive [born again], but in need of proper ministers [as per Eph 4:11-14] to loose him from those very restrictive bonds of a church of men in favor of God's Church.

Coming out of the tomb is to be born again, spiritually alive to God but still waddling around in grave clothes and Jesus' instruction is for us to be the ones to "loose him and let him go" which means to remove the grave clothes so the walk with Him is not restricted by filthy rags of self-righteousness, Isaiah 64:6. But first, remove the stone, the Law, from their lives, Colossians 2:14. We are to be stone rollers, not stone throwers.

 

[Helen]

how is it you have not heard or realised that this does not apply to you or or us - you could be busy loosening what I am binding - twinc

How much..if any of the bible do you "feel"/believe is speaking to you?

Over and over again you posts say " This is not to us"..or "this is not speaking to us"
My question is , what in your opinion IS written to us?

Your bible must be very very small and thin by the time you have thrown out what is not relevant to US.

 

[bbyrd009]

Probably some of these pastors and ministers swing back and forth in their service between the right hand and the left hand of God. They may be deluded in a measure but whose fault is that?

i completely agree, and i do not blame the sellers even a little bit. Many pastors are completely aware of the dichotomy, and hope to impart some truth over time, or etc. Plenty of pastors are preaching grace now, too

 

[Helen]

@jimd I believe you over simplify Satan by saying it is our flesh. It is not...he "uses" our flesh if we allow him to.
I agree with bbyrd009's earlier post...Satan is a tool in God's hand to test , mature and even correct His people...we see it very clearly in the OT.
With Job, with the Children Of Israel , with King David...

1Cor 21:1 "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel...."
2 Sam 24:1 "And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah."
Same time, same place, same story...different accounts.
Isiah 54.16
"Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy."

 

[jimd]

@jimd I believe you over simplify Satan by saying it is our flesh. It is not...he "uses" our flesh if we allow him to.
I agree with bbyrd009's earlier post...Satan is a tool in God's hand to test , mature and even correct His people...we see it very clearly in the OT.
With Job, with the Children Of Israel , with King David...

1Cor 21:1 "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel...."
2 Sam 24:1 "And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah."
Same time, same place, same story...different accounts.
Isiah 54.16
"Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy."

Uh.......I believe this was 009s last response to satan being our fleshly nature:"

satan is our flesh nature, i just saw you say somewhere, yes.

Not that it matters, we can only see what God reveals.

 

[Helen]

Uh.......I believe this was 009s last response to satan being our fleshly nature:"
Not that it matters, we can only see what God reveals.

Hahaha!! Sorry yes...Don't get old.....I am obviously getting 'over the top' that is twice in 24 hours , me quoting the wrong person.

 

[jimd]

Hahaha!! Sorry yes...Don't get old.....I am obviously getting 'over the top' that is twice in 24 hours , me quoting the wrong person.

No Problem, I am 78 so I know the problem. I will take this opportunity to say I am really disappointed in this forum with the one exception being you, which is the reason I bothered to respond. So I will be searching for greener pastures but will monitor this one for anything interesting. Thanks

PS: Do you know where there are any other interesting bible forums?