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Ah yes, you pick up your ball and go home when you can't answer simple questions or are called out to explain your position. It happens all the time. And like many others i talk with, when you don't get your way, let the caustic language fly. I'm the one that doesn't understand or am too...

Theres a lot wrong here. First the fact you can't find a verse that says God or Jesus is a victim speaks volumes. You can't find one because there isn't one. Secondly, 'its up to man to propitiate the offended party...?' Wheres this in the bible? Have you read Romans 3:25? Jesus is our...

High level? Who are you kidding? This is high level for you? Yes, YOU stated God is the victim. My question was WHERE does the BIBLE say God or Jesus is the victim. I think you read in order to respond but not necessarily to understand. Show us where God or Jesus is referred to as a victim. Not...

I give what i get. Youre guilty of the very thing you rail against others doing. Theres a word for that. Wait, i thought you were all about facts, proof and wisdom? Where is any of that in what you just said? Nowhere. I'm beginning to think you lack the substance to back up your groundless...

He didn't consider equality with God something to be gained because He is God! You don't desire something you already possess. And yes, Phil 2 is a testimony to His humility. As a human He certainly was subordinate to God the Father. As God, He is equal in every way. More straw men. He never...

Have you read Phil 2 lately? Who is your redeemer if not God? And how did God atone for your sin? What does 'first born' mean?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Do you understand the difference between a commentary and a lexicon? They are not the same thing.

I did, in my first posts to the other guy. He ignored them all. I know, and other verses as well. No argument here. There may not be an office of a pastor, but nevertheless they are given by Jesus to equip the saints and build up the body.

A lexicon is not a commentary. Its a book of all the n.t. greek words and their definitions. Pastor is not defined as elder or vice versa. A pastor according to the greek is a shepherd. To continue to ignore this is simply to turn a blind eye to the facts of what biblical words mean.

And a commentary isn't a lexicon.

Is the kjv a lexicon? Post lexical definitions for pastor and elder.

Please cite lexical definitions for pastor and elder. Thanks

Not sure what youre saying. Sounds like you agree with me, but maybe not. Yes, not many should be called to be a pastor but those that are are shepherds of the local flock.

Interesting. I did some looking up of this '5 fold ministry'. Seems to be a group thinking that the 5 gifts of Eph 4 should be in use today. Correct me if i'm wrong. So do you think that apostles is a current ministry in the structure of the church? And i found this interesting as well...

No, its not. The greek words for pastor and elder are two different words. While a pastor should also be an elder, they are not synonymous. In fact elder and overseer are. And are you saying Jesus speaks directly to you and your church members individually? He certainly speaks to us through...

Moses didn't build the ark. And pastors are shepherds. Read your bible.

If your pastor has no ability to shepherd his flock, i'd leave. What youre describing is not biblical. Your needle is stuck on one verse. I'd do a study if i were you. You might be surprised what you find.

No one said he was Jesus. But a pastor is a shepherd. Or does your pastor not feed, lead or protect your local flock?

So you have no pastor? A leaderless congregation? Sounds like an odd church. Definitely not n.t.

You didn't click the link. It goes to an earlier post where i had addressed something previously. Anyway, do you go to church at all? Or do you stay home an let Jesus do the shepherding? I'd like to know how that works if thats the case. But if you do go to church what is the name of the guy...