WHY IS THE CHURCH GOING OUT BACKWARD?

[Truther]

Who taught you this un-biblical dribble? Are you self taught?

If someone taught you this you should RUN from them...RUN very fast...

Teachers, per the 5 fold ministry, are shepherds too?

 

[Truther]

You go to Jesus only??

He is speaking to YOU??

Curious Mary

Does that shock you?....


4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[Chris1964]

I have around me a 5 fold ministry, but none of them are shepherds of Christ's sheep.

I am involved in the 5 fold ministry(Teacher/Evangelist), but see no Biblical reference that a pastor is above my calling.

Fact is, I am an elder, which is the Biblical definition of a pastor.

Therefore I will not try to replace the great Shepherd's voice with mine.

I, as all elders, am mistake prone, which disqualifies us as a shepherd and makes our voice the voice of a stranger.

God's will is to speak directly to the believer, not through a pastor to a believer.

Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice".

The pastor teaches, "Jesus sheep hears their voice".

Which is subjecting Jesus' voice to another man.

I teach souls to learn to hear their Shepherds voice directly, then you will get perfect direction from the unseen hand of God.

No, its not. The greek words for pastor and elder are two different words. While a pastor should also be an elder, they are not synonymous. In fact elder and overseer are.

And are you saying Jesus speaks directly to you and your church members individually? He certainly speaks to us through His word i.e. the bible but that still requires study on our part and the word delivered via His servants....pastors/teachers....shepherds.

 

[Chris1964]

I have around me a 5 fold ministry, but none of them are shepherds of Christ's sheep.

I am involved in the 5 fold ministry(Teacher/Evangelist), but see no Biblical reference that a pastor is above my calling.

Fact is, I am an elder, which is the Biblical definition of a pastor.

Therefore I will not try to replace the great Shepherd's voice with mine.

I, as all elders, am mistake prone, which disqualifies us as a shepherd and makes our voice the voice of a stranger.

God's will is to speak directly to the believer, not through a pastor to a believer.

Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice".

The pastor teaches, "Jesus sheep hears their voice".

Which is subjecting Jesus' voice to another man.

I teach souls to learn to hear their Shepherds voice directly, then you will get perfect direction from the unseen hand of God.

Interesting. I did some looking up of this '5 fold ministry'. Seems to be a group thinking that the 5 gifts of Eph 4 should be in use today. Correct me if i'm wrong. So do you think that apostles is a current ministry in the structure of the church? And i found this interesting as well;

https://www.fivefoldministrychurches.com/scriptural-church-government

Without getting into a catholic/christian debate, i see the 5 fold ministry thinks catholicism is part of christianity? This shows a great lack of discernment on the part of this movement.

 

[Marymog]

Mary you really need to run faster than the prophet who ran faster than the chariots when He saw the rain coming, remember what happened to those who never got into the Ark, with Moses. But your cant, you worship your religion and wont let it go even for Christ as do so many, there hearts are far from Him.

Would you care to at least TRY to answer the question: Who taught you this un-biblical dribble? Are you self taught?

 

[Marymog]

Does that shock you?....


4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Yes, that shocks me. I think He is shocked that you are saying that also.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Don't be silly.

There is one Shepherd. Jesus said one Shepherd and one fold.

Your problem is you cannot take "one" for an answer.

No wonder you guys teach one plus one plus one equals one.

And "denial" ain't just a river

Don't be silly.

There is one Shepherd. Jesus said one Shepherd and one fold.

Your problem is you cannot take "one" for an answer.

No wonder you guys teach one plus one plus one equals one.

And “denial” ain’t just a river in Egypt.

You still haven’t been able to refute John 21:15-19, where Jesus makes Peter a SHEPHERD – or 1 Cor. 3:9 and 2 Cor. 6:1 where Paul calls the clergy “CO-WORKERS” (sunergos) with God.

Your failure is as complete and total as your ignorance . . .

 

[Truther]

And "denial" ain't just a river

And “denial” ain’t just a river in Egypt.

You still haven’t been able to refute John 21:15-19, where Jesus makes Peter a SHEPHERD – or 1 Cor. 3:9 and 2 Cor. 6:1 where Paul calls the clergy “CO-WORKERS” (sunergos) with God.

Your failure is as complete and total as your ignorance . . .

No scripture hands Jesus' shepherdship or fold to any man.

The one Shepherd is perfect and pure, unlike the thieves and robbers that want His flock for themselves(as Jesus said in John 10).

The RCC and protestants are stealing Jesus' flocks, as the flocks hear the wrong voices weekly.

These thieves have muzzled Jesus' voice, insisting they are the voice of Jesus, and the masses are not allowed to hear His voice for themselves.

These thieves have propped themselves up as the mediator between the mediator between God and man.

 

[Truther]

Yes, that shocks me. I think He is shocked that you are saying that also.

Question, do you hear the voice of the Pope clearer than the voice of Jesus?

 

[Truther]

Interesting. I did some looking up of this '5 fold ministry'. Seems to be a group thinking that the 5 gifts of Eph 4 should be in use today. Correct me if i'm wrong. So do you think that apostles is a current ministry in the structure of the church? And i found this interesting as well;

https://www.fivefoldministrychurches.com/scriptural-church-government

Without getting into a catholic/christian debate, i see the 5 fold ministry thinks catholicism is part of christianity? This shows a great lack of discernment on the part of this movement.

Speaking of Apostles in particular...this ministry is not for creating doctrine, but for spreading the gospel.

The other 4 offices of the church are equals to each other, and none of them are above the least in God's kingdom.

All saints are simply fellow laborers, with only Jesus to be exalted and/or their Shepherd.

 

[Truther]

No, its not. The greek words for pastor and elder are two different words. While a pastor should also be an elder, they are not synonymous. In fact elder and overseer are.

And are you saying Jesus speaks directly to you and your church members individually? He certainly speaks to us through His word i.e. the bible but that still requires study on our part and the word delivered via His servants....pastors/teachers....shepherds.

Of course He does.

Is He not supposed to???

 

[BreadOfLife]

No scripture hands Jesus' shepherdship or fold to any man.

The one Shepherd is perfect and pure, unlike the thieves and robbers that want His flock for themselves(as Jesus said in John 10).

The RCC and protestants are stealing Jesus' flocks, as the flocks hear the wrong voices weekly.

These thieves have muzzled Jesus' voice, insisting they are the voice of Jesus, and the masses are not allowed to hear His voice for themselves.

These thieves have propped themselves up as the mediator between the mediator between God and man.

Then explain John 21:15-19, because, so far you have failed to address it.

I'll wait here for your response, sparky . . .

 

[Truther]

Then explain John 21:15-19, because, so far you have failed to address it.

I'll wait here for your response, sparky . . .

Feed MY(Jesus') sheep....not feed OUR sheep.

LOL

 

[BreadOfLife]

Feed MY(Jesus') sheep....not feed OUR sheep.

LOL

Correct.
A shepherd doesn't necessarily OWN the sheep he tends. MANY shepherds word FOR the one who owns them.

Your argument is as stupid as saying that a waiter can't work in a restaurant unless he owns it.
Complete nonsense . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Moses didn't build the ark. And pastors are shepherds. Read your bible.

Only those called and I can guarantee there are few of them around.

Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Joh 10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

Ans so on it goes blind following the blind into a ditch.

 

[Addy]

I have around me a 5 fold ministry, but none of them are shepherds of Christ's sheep.

I am involved in the 5 fold ministry(Teacher/Evangelist), but see no Biblical reference that a pastor is above my calling.

Fact is, I am an elder, which is the Biblical definition of a pastor.

Therefore I will not try to replace the great Shepherd's voice with mine.

I, as all elders, am mistake prone, which disqualifies us as a shepherd and makes our voice the voice of a stranger.

God's will is to speak directly to the believer, not through a pastor to a believer.

Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice".

The pastor teaches, "Jesus sheep hears their voice".

Which is subjecting Jesus' voice to another man.

I teach souls to learn to hear their Shepherds voice directly, then you will get perfect direction from the unseen hand of God.

This is a very interesting conversation... From what I can read... there seems to be an issue of semantics... (stressing too much emphasis on one word=Shepherd)... If you notice the picture on my avatar... you will see that my favorite analogy is that of the sheep and Shepherd.

I come also from a 5-fold ministry... of which the TEACHER was the pastor... but would not accept the role of Shepherd... He was gifted as a teacher... and he even wrote books... The problem was that after people would congregate to listen to him speak... that was it... The sheep would go back home and resume their lives with no sense of belonging or community... It was no different than going to the library to check out a book.

The church that does NOT have a Shepherd is NOT HEALTHY... and the wolves are free to roam and devour the flock... at will.

Sheep need to be nurtured... feed... cared for. Jesus calls Pastors to be those shepherds and they are ACCOUNTABLE for their flock. You are taking the word Shepherd and placing it on the level of using the word GOD. This is not a correct observation of the role of a pastor.

 

[mjrhealth]

Would you care to at least TRY to answer the question: Who taught you this un-biblical dribble? Are you self taught?

Only babes dribble and old men so I must be a babe in Christ, and old. Nah all that time in the catholic church and all I learned was that isnt from God, Glad I left, Glad Christ found me and called me out of that abomination, if I hadnt left I would never have come to know our Saviour.

 

[Marymog]

Only babes dribble and old men so I must be a babe in Christ, and old. Nah all that time in the catholic church and all I learned was that isnt from God, Glad I left, Glad Christ found me and called me out of that abomination, if I hadnt left I would never have come to know our Saviour.

Self taught...got it.

 

[mjrhealth]

Self taught...got it.

Wouldnt Consider the Holy Spirit self taught, better than being taught by blind religious men.

 

[Marymog]

Wouldnt Consider the Holy Spirit self taught, better than being taught by blind religious men.

Ok...so the Holy Spirit taught you everything you know. Got it.

The Holy Spirit didn’t teach those “blind religious men”....only you. Got it.