WHY IS THE CHURCH GOING OUT BACKWARD?

[marksman]

Correct, so "pastors", by scriptural definition, are "elders", not "shepherds".

Not as I understand Greek. A shepherd is a shepherd. He might be an Elder as well.

 

[marksman]

There is no such ministry found in the KJV.

The modern versions have inserted "shepherd", as they debunk Jesus in John 10.

He appointed many minister types, but no(zero) replacement shepherds.

The RCC instituted this replacement shepherd idea so they can get us to tell our sins to them, etc.

I do not look for ministry found in the KJV. I prefer to use the original Greek which is much more accurate than the KJV. And the modern versions have not inserted shepherd as it is there in the original Greek.

 

[marksman]

He has volunteer helpers. Not volunteer replacement shepherds.

Everyone is a volunteer helper if they are a believer as there is no pacifists in the kingdom of God. So if Jesus said he appoints and anoints Shepherds and you say he didn't I guess he must not have appointed apostles, evangelist, teachers or prophets.

 

[Addy]

From 1976 until 2018, I had 8 pastors, at least pastors in title. Only two worked at all at being a shepherd [even though that is what the word, pastor, means]. The first one worked at it but he was mostly a boss. He rebuked in front of the congregation because I asked him a question about where he received his authority. The last one was the only one of the 8 who strived with his wife to visit everyone regularly, especially when someone was sick. In a power play using the excuse that he was 92 and somewhat forgetful they removed him in October of 2018. When I was improperly shut down for trying to defend him [he would not defend himself], I left the assembly and have been without a home church to the present. He was and is a pastor. He's been a widower since 2012 with no natural children so now I visit him once a week for Bible study and prayer. [He will be 95 next month.]The human powers did not want a pastor, not a real one, but they wanted the title and what they saw as a position of 'power'. My family was not the only family to leave at the time.

There are wolves around even when there is a pastor. I liken this watchman in the OT to the pastor...

"Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:
If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand" Ezek 33:2-6

What a beautiful thing you did... (Defending and sticking up for your pastor )... Sadly this discussion was not an error in semantics like I originally gave room for... it is truly an error in teaching and/or believing. You and I both know the effects of a pastor refusing to take the role of a Shepherd. I too am not churched at the moment... I take my teachings from the internet now... and the lovely thing is I can pick and choose a variety of different ones. I am blessed to have Christian radio... so we get some good programming on that... I was really affected by Ravi Zacharias's passing... The world has lost the most brilliant apologist ever.
Anyways... I am always blessed to have you drop in on something I have said... Sweet kisses to your precious and humble heart @amadeus

 

[Truther]

Everyone is a volunteer helper if they are a believer as there is no pacifists in the kingdom of God. So if Jesus said he appoints and anoints Shepherds and you say he didn't I guess he must not have appointed apostles, evangelist, teachers or prophets.

Jesus never appoints shepherds. He appointed ELDERS(Pastors etc)

He is the one Shepherd of John 10.

One means one.

Your modern version redefined the word for elder to shepherd, not realizing Jesus dekunked this idea in John 10.

They wanted a piece of Jesus' flock.

I am sure it has something to do with wanting money and power.

 

[marksman]

Jesus never appoints shepherds. He appointed ELDERS(Pastors etc)

He is the one Shepherd of John 10.

One means one.

Your modern version redefined the word for elder to shepherd, not realizing Jesus dekunked this idea in John 10.

They wanted a piece of Jesus' flock.

I am sure it has something to do with wanting money and power.

According to Ephesians 4, he does. I am not referring to modern versions. I am referring to one of the oldest, the Original Greek where the word pastor is not used.

 

[Truther]

I do not look for ministry found in the KJV. I prefer to use the original Greek which is much more accurate than the KJV. And the modern versions have not inserted shepherd as it is there in the original Greek.

There is no original Greek.

All are copies.

You only have copies and access to someones modern idea of what these copies say.

I use the 400 year old translators as my Greek definitions, since there were 50 of them and they were ancient like their materials.

These 50 did not, one time, call anyone "shepherd' in the N.T., fearing being debunked by Jesus in John 10.

They were smart.

Modernists are not.

 

[Addy]

LOL @Truther ... you really are stuck on the word SHEPHERD.... The word shepherd is NOT synonymous with the word GOD.
It's ok to state that pastors are SHEPHERDS... A pastor is CHARGED with a congregation/following/people who show up for church on Sunday...
or at least did so before this covid thing. The pastor is held accountable for WHAT HE teaches his sheep. Sadly.... you are making a big deal out of nothing. Are there not enough topics that separate us already?

 

[Truther]

Not as I understand Greek. A shepherd is a shepherd. He might be an Elder as well.

Jesus said he (there)shall be ONE Shepherd.

Not yet?

 

[Truther]

No one tells me he is my shepherd. Unless I see there is an anointing for that ministry I let it go through to the keeper.

You skip Jesus and go to another shepherd instead?

 

[Truther]

The original Greek is not a biased phony modern version and it is translated as shepherd in that one.

There is no original Greek, but copies.

Also, translated as shepherd by whom?

 

[Truther]

LOL @Truther ... you really are stuck on the word SHEPHERD.... The word shepherd is NOT synonymous with the word GOD.
It's ok to state that pastors are SHEPHERDS... A pastor is CHARGED with a congregation/following/people who show up for church on Sunday...
or at least did so before this covid thing. The pastor is held accountable for WHAT HE teaches his sheep. Sadly.... you are making a big deal out of nothing. Are there not enough topics that separate us already?

No, I am trying to tell folks that "the LORD is their Shepherd...."

They don't want the Lord to be that ONE Shepherd in their lives as Jesus insisted in John 10, but would rather have tangible, sinful and deceive-able men as carnal, right now over the phone and in person, shepherds, since they don't hear the real Shepherd's voice.

 

[mjrhealth]

No, I am trying to tell folks that "the LORD is their Shepherd...."

They don't want the Lord to be that ONE Shepherd in their lives as Jesus insisted in John 10, but would rather have tangible, sinful and deceive-able men as carnal, right now over the phone and in person, shepherds, since they don't hear the real Shepherd's voice.

Amen to that

 

[Truther]

Sooooo, you STILL can't properly exegete John 21:15-19 after ALL the opportunities I've give you??

Pretty pathetic - even for YOU . . .

Truther...

23 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

BOL...

23 The Pope is my shepherd; I shall not want.


LOL

 

[BreadOfLife]

Truther...

23 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

BOL...

23 The Pope is my shepherd; I shall not want.

LOL

Eph. 4:11-12
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the SHEPHERDS, the teachers to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ.

Truther: “Duuhhhhhh, shepherd does NOT mean ‘shepherd’!!”

BOL: “Suuurrrrre, son – how ’bout a cookie?”

 

[Chris1964]

Correct, so "pastors", by scriptural definition, are "elders", not "shepherds".

Please cite lexical definitions for pastor and elder. Thanks

 

[amadeus]

Yes, a pastor is an elder, which was spoken of all through Acts(notice "pastor" never even mentioned again).

Yes and elder according to the meaning of the word, Pastor, a shepherd. In both Latin and Spanish the common word meaning shepherd is, Pastor. In English they are synonyms. Pastor comes from the Latin and Shepherd is of Germanic origin. The German word for sheep is Schafe.

 

[amadeus]

What a beautiful thing you did... (Defending and sticking up for your pastor )... Sadly this discussion was not an error in semantics like I originally gave room for... it is truly an error in teaching and/or believing. You and I both know the effects of a pastor refusing to take the role of a Shepherd. I too am not churched at the moment... I take my teachings from the internet now... and the lovely thing is I can pick and choose a variety of different ones. I am blessed to have Christian radio... so we get some good programming on that... I was really affected by Ravi Zacharias's passing... The world has lost the most brilliant apologist ever.
Anyways... I am always blessed to have you drop in on something I have said... Sweet kisses to your precious and humble heart @amadeus

Thank you for your kindness. I only listen to radio when driving my car which is not too often with this virus thing. Other than my pastor my only real Christian friend offline died this past March. My wife and I have our pastimes together each day mostly in board games and jigsaw puzzles. Outside of that the Internet is where I find fellowship and inspirational things mostly on forums like this one.

 

[Addy]

No, I am trying to tell folks that "the LORD is their Shepherd...."

They don't want the Lord to be that ONE Shepherd in their lives as Jesus insisted in John 10, but would rather have tangible, sinful and deceive-able men as carnal, right now over the phone and in person, shepherds, since they don't hear the real Shepherd's voice.

Sorry I don't support Christians who harshly judge each other and accuse the brethren... The ONE SHEPHERD does not take kindly to that kind of thing either... just sayin!!!!!!

 

[Truther]

Sorry I don't support Christians who harshly judge each other and accuse the brethren... The ONE SHEPHERD does not take kindly to that kind of thing either... just sayin!!!!!!

I have no idea what you are talking about.

A debate is judging?