“As He Is”

[Helen]

@mjrhealth Thank you.
I will add your post to my musings...I know the Holy Spirit will slowly drip it all into my spirit. Once God reveals things to me I have the "leaping" within, and then I know it has moved past my mind and right into my being, and become my very own 'solid belief system.'
I've always read Romans 7 as Paul speaking of himself before he was totally delivered from the law ( = still a mixture) and Romans 8 Paul writing of himself after there was no more mixture in his belief system was solid.
I guess I am solid on my Position...but still conscious of my condition not matching my position yet. ScottA has been sharing where he is, and he seems to have gone beyond any more 'mixture'. So, at the moment I am "all ears" ...I see it is a real deliverance to get beyond 'our condition' and leave it totally behind!
At the moment I am not sure that I could then never have any more thoughts about my condition not matching up with my position in Christ. That sound like one big leap of faith, and needs a fresh revelation to make it real deep within.
I am a great believer in grace with accountability. Some, especially in the 90's taught on total Grace,.. yet with no accountability.( I lived there for a while)
Thank you again for your post...I will go back and do a re read.
Bless you...H

 

[mjrhealth]

Hi Helen. taken me 38 years to get to this place im not leaving it for any man, cost me far to much to ever walk away. If i turn from Him i loose every thing and go back to nothing if I stay with Him i have nothing yet in Him I have everything, Our accountabilty is to have faith in Him, ask Pia about the price one pays, though I am sure you have. God had to do it once and perfectly, He simply cannot rely on us men, proud, arrogant, unbelieving, unfaithful, foolish, ignorant, to get anything right, If He did we would have no hope.

As someone posted before, " His grace is sufficient for Me", and there out teh window, goes guilt and condemnation.

God Bless

 

[Helen]

@mjrhealth .. @ScottA ...

I must now sleep on this.
I still can't see how I get to the place that I never again 'feel' the dead-weight of dragging around the old man.
I can go weeks ignoring the old self, and " reckoning it dead" , then out of the blue I am conscious of the short falls once more...which causes me once again to remember I still drag the old self along...it is DEAD, but won't say totally buried!!!

I am sure when I re read this whole thread again ...slowly , I will see all that you have both shared here.
Good night for now....and thanks again. Bless you .

 

[Netchaplain]

@mjrhealth .. @ScottA ...

I must now sleep on this.
I still can't see how I get to the place that I never again 'feel' the dead-weight of dragging around the old man.
I can go weeks ignoring the old self, and " reckoning it dead" , then out of the blue I am conscious of the short falls once more...which causes me once again to remember I still drag the old self along...it is DEAD, but won't say totally buried!!!

I am sure when I re read this whole thread again ...slowly , I will see all that you have both shared here.
Good night for now....and thanks again. Bless you .

Being dead to the old nature (Col 2:20; 3:3) of course doesn't mean it's dead to us (only crucified - Rom 6:6), but that we are no longer part of its control (Rom 6:12, 14). It is in us but we are not in it (Rom 8:9) and it continues to attempt to reestablish in us the desire for wrong, as before rebirth, but God keeps "working is us to desire and do His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13); and the Spirit of God continually opposes it (Gal 5:17) concerning our walk.

All believers should be aware of this (which should be taught in Bible studies) to help endure and it understand we need not to allow it to trouble us, we're just to know and understand this so the Lord can use it for our learning.

Blessings!

 

[amadeus]

Hmmm... this sounds like one man's rationale (perhaps that of many). But it is not good or correct that we should live this way.

This is not "Go and sin no more", not "old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new", or "Whoever abides in Him does not sin." This is condoning. This is harboring a fugitive, that old man of sin.

I do understand, and it is not that Paul did such a great job saying, "but sin that dwells in me." But he did not contradict himself or Christ or John. He simply worked both sides of the problem, speaking sometimes to those who were not yet made new, and other times to those who were. But that time of transition, the greatest transition of human history of the spirit of God being poured out upon all flesh, does not mean it is okay to pack a bag full of what once was, and allow ourselves to be halfhearted.

Heaven forbid!

No, we do better to "press on", to "deny ourselves."

PS, repeat after me: "I abide in Him. I do not sin."

Thank you friend for inserting this explanation here. I tried to read the OP, but I guess my mind simply cannot mesh with "position" and "condition" explanations given. Yours comes much closer to home for me. I recognize that I at times have sinned since I first believed. I recognize that with Jesus help I need to move away from any sin and those things in me that want to lead me back to sin. I know on the one hand there is something in me that is opposed to sin, the new man. There also remains in me the old man who lost his supreme position in me when I met Jesus. I don't forget the need to fight and eventually destroy the old because I have the new. The old man is still there and will retake his dominant position if he is allowed to do so. When we quench the Holy Spirit in us that is allowing the old man to move up rather casting him down and out.

As you said, Jesus said, "go and sin no more" and that where we all need to be headed.

 

[ScottA]

@mjrhealth .. @ScottA ...

I must now sleep on this.
I still can't see how I get to the place that I never again 'feel' the dead-weight of dragging around the old man.
I can go weeks ignoring the old self, and " reckoning it dead" , then out of the blue I am conscious of the short falls once more...which causes me once again to remember I still drag the old self along...it is DEAD, but won't say totally buried!!!

I am sure when I re read this whole thread again ...slowly , I will see all that you have both shared here.
Good night for now....and thanks again. Bless you .

It is not you who drags around the old man. That is Christ dragging that old you around. And He is gracious and forgiving, so you should be also. Give yourself a break. By God in you, forget the sin "as far as the east is from the west."

 

[ScottA]

Thank you friend for inserting this explanation here. I tried to read the OP, but I guess my mind simply cannot mesh with "position" and "condition" explanations given. Yours comes much closer to home for me. I recognize that I at times have sinned since I first believed. I recognize that with Jesus help I need to move away from any sin and those things in me that want to lead me back to sin. I know on the one hand there is something in me that is opposed to sin, the new man. There also remains in me the old man who lost his supreme position in me when I met Jesus. I don't forget the need to fight and eventually destroy the old because I have the new. The old man is still there and will retake his dominant position if he is allowed to do so. When we quench the Holy Spirit in us that is allowing the old man to move up rather casting him down and out.

As you said, Jesus said, "go and sin no more" and that where we all need to be headed.

This I will say to all:

The thing that is most difficult is that we still abide in the world...which is not the difficult part, but rather that in the world we abide in Time. But it is from the timeless position of "I AM" that our sins have been forgiven, though we perceive it not. Therefore, there is no need to beat ourselves up for the sins we have yet to see ourselves commit, simply because we have yet to see the end. No, it is Christ whom has caused us to continue to abide in this place - not for the working out of our own salvation (as was true of times past), but for the good works of which Christ has equipped us with gifts from on high.

You see, history is His story...and this part where we do this ride-along "in Christ", we indeed will see ourselves as we once were. Yet, if we can understand that these things were since before the foundation of the world, then although the matter is "finished" and we are last to know, we ourselves can know that we are merely seeing our part unfold before us. But to us it is a rerun, the price we pay (in sorrows) for being "the first" and "the living." But it is also a great privilege. Do you not know that this is that time foretold, where we reign with Christ and judge the world, beginning with ourselves?

Abide in Him.

 

[Helen]

@ScottA
WOW!! Now I can see it!! Finally. ... That is awesome!
When was it that God showed you this? I have never heard it laid out so clearly before!! THANK YOU.

A certain person on this site accuses us all of not praising enough.
If the truth that you have shared here is not a reason to praise the Lord , then I don't know what IS!!
Praise God...what a deliverance from the old..and the end of "mixture!"
All glory be to God! ✟

I have copied these posts to read over and let everything filter through.
Once it has become a living part of me, I hope I can share it with my friends...if that is okay with you?
Bless you...H

 

[101G]

This I will say to all:

The thing that is most difficult is that we still abide in the world...which is not the difficult part, but rather that in the world we abide in Time. But it is from the timeless position of "I AM" that our sins have been forgiven, though we perceive it not. Therefore, there is no need to beat ourselves up for the sins we have yet to see ourselves commit, simply because we have yet to see the end. No, it is Christ whom has caused us to continue to abide in this place - not for the working out of our own salvation (as was true of times past), but for the good works of which Christ has equipped us with gifts from on high.

You see, history is His story...and this part where we do this ride-along "in Christ", we indeed will see ourselves as we once were. Yet, if we can understand that these things were since before the foundation of the world, then although the matter is "finished" and we are last to know, we ourselves can know that we are merely seeing our part unfold before us. But to us it is a rerun, the price we pay (in sorrows) for being "the first" and "the living." But it also a great privilege. Do you not know that this is that time foretold, where we reign with Christ and judge the world, beginning with ourselves?

Abide in Him.

GINOLJC to all. since this is address to all, I will respond. the time question needs understanding. Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. this is the time key. what do I mean. until the time of the end we're to maintain our "BELIEF" in his SALVATION. not to maintain salvation but the FAITH of it. hence, Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". that just answered the time question. we're saved by HOPE, scripture, Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" for the very next verse tells us why. verse 25 "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it". this is the wait, Abraham waited. Enoch waited... just read Hebrews 11 again. the apostle Paul said it also, 1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord". Paul said "WE" which are alive and remain, for he nor any man or angel in heavens KNOW WHEN THE LORD JESUS RETURNS. now the apostle Peter. 2 Peter 1:4-10 "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall".

Have FAITH in your SALVATION until the COMING of the Lord Jesus.

 

[amadeus]

This I will say to all:

The thing that is most difficult is that we still abide in the world...which is not the difficult part, but rather that in the world we abide in Time. But it is from the timeless position of "I AM" that our sins have been forgiven, though we perceive it not. Therefore, there is no need to beat ourselves up for the sins we have yet to see ourselves commit, simply because we have yet to see the end. No, it is Christ whom has caused us to continue to abide in this place - not for the working out of our own salvation (as was true of times past), but for the good works of which Christ has equipped us with gifts from on high.

You see, history is His story...and this part where we do this ride-along "in Christ", we indeed will see ourselves as we once were. Yet, if we can understand that these things were since before the foundation of the world, then although the matter is "finished" and we are last to know, we ourselves can know that we are merely seeing our part unfold before us. But to us it is a rerun, the price we pay (in sorrows) for being "the first" and "the living." But it is also a great privilege. Do you not know that this is that time foretold, where we reign with Christ and judge the world, beginning with ourselves?

Abide in Him.

Give God the glory, my friend!

 

[Helen]

Being dead to the old nature (Col 2:20; 3:3) of course doesn't mean it's dead to us (only crucified - Rom 6:6), but that we are no longer part of its control (Rom 6:12, 14). It is in us but we are not in it (Rom 8:9) and it continues to attempt to reestablish in us the desire for wrong, as before rebirth, but God keeps "working is us to desire and do His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13); and the Spirit of God continually opposes it (Gal 5:17) concerning our walk.

All believers should be aware of this (which should be taught in Bible studies) to help endure and it understand we need not to allow it to trouble us, we're just to know and understand this so the Lord can use it for our learning.

Blessings!

I can see how some could easily take the 'dead by faith' bit and run with it...Paul himself spoke about taking grace as a 'licence for the flesh' to the fleshly Christian, and it always will be. The fleshly without a true heart for God-First, will always find an excuse for the flesh.
When I first heard 'the message of grace' in the 90's. I fell for it.
I heard someone tell a grace preacher that it sounded like he could live how he liked under grace. The preacher answered by saying..."and if you do 1) you do not rally understand grace, 2)you do not truly love God, or 100% committed to Him. ( you still want your own life too)
That was when I saw that grace has accountability..and a leash..LOVE!
( 1 Cor 13) That saved me for a false concept of grace.

As I woke this morning and mused with the Lord over this thread...I felt that now I could see even more in ScottA posts , (yours , mjrhealth's, & Amadeus) what is means by- "The renewing of the mind."

I have enjoyed reading both your position and ScottA's.
That has blessed me. It's lovely reading how mature people can lay out their case with one another and no one at all gets all ruffled or upset. That to me is why I like this site. Yes there are the ones who want to tell others 'how it should be' or who is wrong. But there are some wonderful grown-up on the Site.

I am so glad that you started this thread, thank you...this has blessed me more than any other thread in the time I have been on this site.

 

[amadeus]

The Time thing is expressed in Ecclesiates here:

Ecc 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Ecc 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
Ecc 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Ecc 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
Ecc 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
Ecc 3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
Ecc 3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
Ecc 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

The question to ask and to answer is, whose time and whose purpose?
As stewards of Christ, our time as we call it is not really our time, is it? Why is it that so often we treat it as if it were?

"And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?" Luke 12:42

"For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;" Titus 1:7

"As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." I Peter 4:10

 

[Netchaplain]

@ScottA
WOW!! Now I can see it!! Finally. ... That is awesome!
When was it that God showed you this? I have never heard it laid out so clearly before!! THANK YOU.

A certain person on this site accuses us all of not praising enough.
If the truth that you have shared here is not a reason to praise the Lord , then I don't know what IS!!
Praise God...what a deliverance from the old..and the end of "mixture!"
All glory be to God! ✟

I have copied these posts to read over and let everything filter through.
Once it has become a living part of me, I hope I can share it with my friends...if that is okay with you?
Bless you...H

Hi BG - In this post are you referring to Scott, because it looks like his name is at the top. Just wanted to know in case I miss giving a welcome to you.

Blessings!

 

[Helen]

@Netchaplain I was saying to you.. :-

I have enjoyed reading both your position and ScottA's posts

I have learned so much from this whole thread. I had been wonderful..I have enjoyed it.
I joined back in June...and have enjoyed some threads and groaned in some other the others...but that is Forums for you. LOL

 

[mjrhealth]

I have learned so much from this whole thread. I had been wonderful..I have enjoyed it.
I joined back in June...and have enjoyed some threads and groaned in some other the others...but that is Forums for you. LOL

I guess all that is left to be said, is that once you begin to understand you will have a fight on your hands. the enemy will come to try steal your peace. takes a while to get hardened to that one. But Christ is always with us,always at our side, will never leave us it is His promise. I love teh WOW moments in our walk.

 

[Netchaplain]

@Netchaplain I was saying to you.. :-


I have learned so much from this whole thread. I had been wonderful..I have enjoyed it.
I joined back in June...and have enjoyed some threads and groaned in some other the others...but that is Forums for you. LOL

Okay, thanks for letting me know because I get encouraged from knowing I was able to encourage others!

God's blessings to your Family, and blessed be God!

 

[Helen]

@mjrhealth Very true...but at our/my time of life , we have at least become very familiar with the Voice of The Shepherd.
Yes agree..this thread has been a "wow moment" for me.
I am very sad for those who are so sure that they have arrived at all truth, so they no longer have a teachable spirit. God save me from that.
Yesterday was 53 years since the Lord came into my life...1964 and I was 22 yrs old.
I am still learning...He is a good and patient Teacher...and He has good and faithful vessels who have learned things that I have not learned...that is the body of Christ in action!
Bless you....H

 

[mjrhealth]

I am very sad for those who are so sure that they have arrived at all truth, so they no longer have a teachable spirit. God save me from that.

Have to look at myself constantly to make sure I don get prideful and arrogant, even had to walk away for a while when I saw the horrible flesh taking control, so easy to get lost. Have a lot lately had to ask teh Lord to keep me on the right track to make sure i have not over stepped. Nice to see you growing. Might just have to do a repost of a message.