“As He Is”

[Netchaplain]

Once I discovered the use of the terms “position” and “condition” to help explain the Christians relation to God I quickly understood more specifically the status concerning fellowship with Him in Christ. Positionally, Christians are “as He is” (1 Jhn 4:17); Conditionally, we have a sin nature (Gal 5:17) and a “new “ nature (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10), but even though the sin nature yet affects us (cannot be avoided - Pro 6:27, 28), we are not desirous of it, e.g. not after or “in” the sin nature (Rom 8:9).

We still sin due to the sin nature but it’s “no longer I,” e.g. me in my new nature, “but sin that dwelleth in me,” e.g. me with my old nature - Rom 7:17, 20). This conflict reveals in our condition the infinite difference between sinning “willfully” (Heb 10:26; Num 15:30) or “unintentionally” (Num 15:24-29), which is all a manifestation of the Father’s “work in you” (Phil 2:13).

In our condition we still sin but much more importantly, in our position we stand “spotless” (Eph 5:27; 2 Pet 3:14). Where we are in our condition is what the Father uses to glorify Himself (Mat 5:16); Who we are in our position is with what He uses to fellowship. As it has been well said that, “God does not fellowship with our sin,” that is, not with us in our sin nature (though we’re not in our sin nature - Ron 8:9 - it is in us) but with us in our “new” nature, because it is after the Lord Jesus’ nature (Col 3:10).

Who we are in our new nature is all that the Father regards, thus we need not allow what we are in our sin nature and its affects to distract us in our understanding that it’s us in our position (Heb 1:3; 9:9, 14; 10:2, 22) with which He fellowships. What we are in our condition is used to teach us and to manifest Himself to ourselves and others.

May God give us to always remind ourselves of who we are in our position, more than what we might consider ourselves to be in our condition! One’s position is always vastly more significant than one’s condition! Similarly to the captivity of a king’s son; though restrained—yet a prince!
Bob Hall (NC)

 

[lforrest]

A simplistic way I view this is that those who are born again start their new lives as creatures with a conflicted nature. We start synchronized with the flesh, but are conformed to Jesus and synchronized with him by the Spirit. While we still live in this fallen world we are out of sync with both natures.

I don't know how many of you know how generators work but it is an analogous concept to me. A generator rolls up to speed and needs to be connected to the grid. To do this It needs to be brought into phase with the grid. If you connect a generator to the grid that is totally out of sync it may damage the generator, but if it is only off by a little it will jerk into sync. The more out of phase the more violent the transition.

 

[DPMartin]

what takes time there NC is we need to understand its not what thought comes to mind because of our sinful nature, its what we do after that. do we entertain it until we execute it or not? this is what Jesus means by


Mat_5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


many cry and whimper about todays society of promiscuousness and sexually obsessed and expressing such in public tv and advertising in the name of free speech. welcome to some of what it was like in the roman days that the Apostles dealt with.

but in our case, its about what you entertain, its not what you see, its what you entertain when you see it, its not what you hear its what you entertain when you hear it. consider what Eve entertained when the serpent spoke, and the result? what did Jesus entertain when Satan spoke to him when He did His 40 days in the desert? and what was the result?

and its the covering of Christ that the Father sees us through, that makes us sinless in the Father's sight. (according to God's approval, not man's) and as we look to and walk in that covering we continue to grow into God's Nature in His Holy Spirit, and what? take on the mind of Christ have the law written in our hearts, that covenant that Jesus fulfilled. and no one can escape what is in their hearts. hence as Paul said:


Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[Netchaplain]

A simplistic way I view this is that those who are born again start their new lives as creatures with a conflicted nature. We start synchronized with the flesh, but are conformed to Jesus and synchronized with him by the Spirit. While we still live in this fallen world we are out of sync with both natures.

I don't know how many of you know how generators work but it is an analogous concept to me. A generator rolls up to speed and needs to be connected to the grid. To do this It needs to be brought into phase with the grid. If you connect a generator to the grid that is totally out of sync it may damage the generator, but if it is only off by a little it will jerk into sync. The more out of phase the more violent the transition.

Hi IF - Thanks for the input and your analogy of synchrony. Concerning an analogy of our syncing with God, I believe He is in full fellowship with us from rebirth and it's just a matter of time and teaching in learning how we fellowship with Him!

Blessings!

 

[Helen]

@Netchaplain Thank you...that was a great OP.

 

[ScottA]

Once I discovered the use of the terms “position” and “condition” to help explain the Christians relation to God I quickly understood more specifically the status concerning fellowship with Him in Christ. Positionally, Christians are “as He is” (1 Jhn 4:17); Conditionally, we have a sin nature (Gal 5:17) and a “new “ nature (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10), but even though the sin nature yet affects us (cannot be avoided - Pro 6:27, 28), we are not desirous of it, e.g. not after or “in” the sin nature (Rom 8:9).

We still sin due to the sin nature but it’s “no longer I,” e.g. me in my new nature, “but sin that dwelleth in me,” e.g. me with my old nature - Rom 7:17, 20). This conflict reveals in our condition the infinite difference between sinning “willfully” (Heb 10:26; Num 15:30) or “unintentionally” (Num 15:24-29), which is all a manifestation of the Father’s “work in you” (Phil 2:13).

In our condition we still sin but much more importantly, in our position we stand “spotless” (Eph 5:27; 2 Pet 3:14). Where we are in our condition is what the Father uses to glorify Himself (Mat 5:16); Who we are in our position is with what He uses to fellowship. As it has been well said that, “God does not fellowship with our sin,” that is, not with us in our sin nature (though we’re not in our sin nature - Ron 8:9 - it is in us) but with us in our “new” nature, because it is after the Lord Jesus’ nature (Col 3:10).

Who we are in our new nature is all that the Father regards, thus we need not allow what we are in our sin nature and its affects to distract us in our understanding that it’s us in our position (Heb 1:3; 9:9, 14; 10:2, 22) with which He fellowships. What we are in our condition is used to teach us and to manifest Himself to ourselves and others.

May God give us to always remind ourselves of who we are in our position, more than what we might consider ourselves to be in our condition! One’s position is always vastly more significant than one’s condition! Similarly to the captivity of a king’s son; though restrained—yet a prince!
Bob Hall (NC)

Hmmm... this sounds like one man's rationale (perhaps that of many). But it is not good or correct that we should live this way.

This is not "Go and sin no more", not "old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new", or "Whoever abides in Him does not sin." This is condoning. This is harboring a fugitive, that old man of sin.

I do understand, and it is not that Paul did such a great job saying, "but sin that dwells in me." But he did not contradict himself or Christ or John. He simply worked both sides of the problem, speaking sometimes to those who were not yet made new, and other times to those who were. But that time of transition, the greatest transition of human history of the spirit of God being poured out upon all flesh, does not mean it is okay to pack a bag full of what once was, and allow ourselves to be halfhearted.

Heaven forbid!

No, we do better to "press on", to "deny ourselves."

PS, repeat after me: "I abide in Him. I do not sin."

 

[Helen]

Well the OP really spoke to me! @ScottA
My old dad used to heavily lean on "position faith"..
That is good...we need that..it is truth and a must....but it is also 'a work of faith' to continually- " reckon ourself dead indeed to sin" . The old man is always in our face clamouring for attention. I have not yet come to the place where both positionally and experience wise I have it all locked down. I am still " fighting the good fight of faith" ...and we would become most weary if we did not know and were established in our position
But, ....that's just me.

Very open to learn though... do you have a secret that I don't know yet?

 

[Netchaplain]

"Whoever abides in Him does not sin."

Thanks for your reply, but it appears we are of a different understanding concerning what Scripture means by the passages you're presenting. There are some who believe this passage means that the Christian no longer sins, but such a concept conflicts with the majority of NT Scripture which teaches otherwise.

I realize that many do not take advantage of Bible commentators, but there are no commentators (to my knowledge) who teach sinless perfection. From the examples below it is seen that the passage is referring to the new nature ("new man") in us that does not and cannot sin. I realize this is a lot to view at random, but this subject properly requires a bit of study if attempting to get at its truth if strongly desired. Please take your time, and I would understand it if this is more viewing than you would desire to see at this time, but I think it unjustified not to at least present this.

John Gill on 1 John 3:9:
Doth not commit sin; does not make it his trade and business; it is not the constant course of his life; he does not live and walk in sin, or give up himself to it; he is not without the being of it in him, or free from acts of sin in his life and conversation, but he does not so commit it as to be the servant of it, a slave unto it, or to continue in it; and that for this reason:

For his seed remaineth in him; not the word of God, or the Gospel, though that is a seed which is sown by the ministers of it, and blessed by God, and by which he regenerates his people; and which having a place in their hearts, becomes the ingrafted word, and there abides, nor can it be rooted out; where it powerfully teaches to avoid sin, is an antidote against it, and a preservative from it: nor the Holy Spirit of God, though he is the author of the new birth, and the principle of all grace; and where he once is, he always abides; and through the power of his grace believers prevail against sin, and mortify the deeds of the body, and live: but rather the grace of the Spirit, the internal principle of grace in the soul, the new nature, or new man formed in the soul, is meant; which seminally contains all grace in it, and which, like seed, springs up and gradually increases, and always abides; and is pure and incorruptible, and neither sins itself, nor encourages sin, but opposes, checks, and prevents it:

And he cannot sin; not that it is impossible for such a man to do acts of sin, or that it is possible for him to live without sin; for the words are not to be understood in the sense of those who plead for perfection in this life; for though the saints have perfection in Christ, yet not in themselves; they are not impeccable, they are not free from sin, neither from the being nor actings of it; sin is in them, lives in them, dwells in them, hinders all the good, and does all the mischief it can: or in such sense, as if the sins of believers were not sins.

Nor though they are pardoned and expiated, and they are justified from them, yet they do not cease to be sins; they are equally contrary to the nature, will, and law of God, as well as the sins of others; and are oftentimes attended with more aggravated circumstances, and which God in a fatherly way takes notice of, and chastises for, and on the account of which he hides his face from them: nor does the phrase intend any particular single sin, which cannot be committed; though there are such, as sinning wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, or denying Christ to be the Saviour of sinners, and a sacrifice for sin, and hatred of a Christian brother as such, and sinning the sin unto death, or the unpardonable sin; neither of which can be committed by a regenerate man.

Nor is the meaning only, though it is a sense that will very well bear, and agrees with the context, that such persons cannot sin as unregenerate men do; that is, live in a continued course of sinning, and with pleasure, and without reluctance, and so as to lie in it, as the whole world does: but rather the meaning is, he that is born of God, as he is born of God, or that which is born of God in him, the new man, or new creature, cannot sin; for that is pure and holy; there is nothing sinful in it, nor can anything that is sinful come out of it, or be done by it; it is the workmanship of the Holy Spirit of God; it is a good work, and well pleasing: in the sight of God, who is of purer eyes than to behold sin with delight; and an incorruptible seed, which neither corrupts nor is corrupted."

Albert Barnes:
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin - This passage must either mean that they who are born of God, that is, who are true Christians, do not sin habitually and characteristically, or that everyone who is a true Christian is absolutely perfect, and never commits any sin. If it can be used as referring to the doctrine of absolute perfection at all, it proves, not that Christians may be perfect, or that a “portion” of them are, but that all are.

But who can maintain this? Who can believe that John meant to affirm this? Nothing can be clearer than that the passage has not this meaning, and that John did not teach a doctrine so contrary to the current strain of the Scriptures, and to fact; and if he did not teach this, then in this whole passage he refers to those who are habitually and characteristically righteous.

For his seed remaineth in him - There is much obscurity in this expression, though the general sense is clear, which is, that there is something abiding in the heart of the true Christian which the apostle here calls “seed,” which will prevent his sinning.

The word “his” in this phrase, “his seed,” may refer either to the individual himself - in the sense that this can now be properly called “his,” inasmuch as it is a part of himself, or a principle abiding in him; or it may refer to God - in the sense that what is here called “seed” is “his,” that is, he has implanted it, or it is a germ of divine origin.

Blessings!

 

[mjrhealth]

• It is sad, that many who spend their whole life in guilt because of sin, and insist on trying not to sin, end up in unbelief which is sin. I can stand before God because of what Jesus has done. it is not that I do not sin cause i still do, it is just that God no longer sees me as a sinner but as teh righteousness of Jesus. There will be no man who ever stands before God because He didnt sin except Jesus.

 

[Netchaplain]

• It is sad, that many who spend their whole life in guilt because of sin, and insist on trying not to sin, end up in unbelief which is sin. I can stand before God because of what Jesus has done. it is not that I do not sin cause i still do, it is just that God no longer sees me as a sinner but as teh righteousness of Jesus. There will be no man who ever stands before God because He didnt sin except Jesus.

Hi MJH - I've found that many if not most eventually learn, and the sins of a Christian are not the same as before, plus they become much less as we mature (not that they will ever diminish to not sinning). Thanks for your reply and God bless!

 

[ScottA]

Well the OP really spoke to me! @ScottA
My old dad used to heavily lean on "position faith"..
That is good...we need that..it is truth and a must....but it is also 'a work of faith' to continually- " reckon ourself dead indeed to sin" . The old man is always in our face clamouring for attention. I have not yet come to the place where both positionally and experience wise I have it all locked down. I am still " fighting the good fight of faith" ...and we would become most weary if we did not know and were established in our position
But, ....that's just me.

Very open to learn though... do you have a secret that I don't know yet?

Crawl under your car and disengage the reverse.

I understand. Just believe.

 

[ScottA]

Thanks for your reply, but it appears we are of a different understanding concerning what Scripture means by the passages you're presenting. There are some who believe this passage means that the Christian no longer sins, but such a concept conflicts with the majority of NT Scripture which teaches otherwise.

I realize that many do not take advantage of Bible commentators, but there are no commentators (to my knowledge) who teach sinless perfection. From the examples below it is seen that the passage is referring to the new nature ("new man") in us that does not and cannot sin. I realize this is a lot to view at random, but this subject properly requires a bit of study if attempting to get at its truth if strongly desired. Please take your time, and I would understand it if this is more viewing than you would desire to see at this time, but I think it unjustified not to at least present this.

John Gill on 1 John 3:9:
Doth not commit sin; does not make it his trade and business; it is not the constant course of his life; he does not live and walk in sin, or give up himself to it; he is not without the being of it in him, or free from acts of sin in his life and conversation, but he does not so commit it as to be the servant of it, a slave unto it, or to continue in it; and that for this reason:

For his seed remaineth in him; not the word of God, or the Gospel, though that is a seed which is sown by the ministers of it, and blessed by God, and by which he regenerates his people; and which having a place in their hearts, becomes the ingrafted word, and there abides, nor can it be rooted out; where it powerfully teaches to avoid sin, is an antidote against it, and a preservative from it: nor the Holy Spirit of God, though he is the author of the new birth, and the principle of all grace; and where he once is, he always abides; and through the power of his grace believers prevail against sin, and mortify the deeds of the body, and live: but rather the grace of the Spirit, the internal principle of grace in the soul, the new nature, or new man formed in the soul, is meant; which seminally contains all grace in it, and which, like seed, springs up and gradually increases, and always abides; and is pure and incorruptible, and neither sins itself, nor encourages sin, but opposes, checks, and prevents it:

And he cannot sin; not that it is impossible for such a man to do acts of sin, or that it is possible for him to live without sin; for the words are not to be understood in the sense of those who plead for perfection in this life; for though the saints have perfection in Christ, yet not in themselves; they are not impeccable, they are not free from sin, neither from the being nor actings of it; sin is in them, lives in them, dwells in them, hinders all the good, and does all the mischief it can: or in such sense, as if the sins of believers were not sins.

Nor though they are pardoned and expiated, and they are justified from them, yet they do not cease to be sins; they are equally contrary to the nature, will, and law of God, as well as the sins of others; and are oftentimes attended with more aggravated circumstances, and which God in a fatherly way takes notice of, and chastises for, and on the account of which he hides his face from them: nor does the phrase intend any particular single sin, which cannot be committed; though there are such, as sinning wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, or denying Christ to be the Saviour of sinners, and a sacrifice for sin, and hatred of a Christian brother as such, and sinning the sin unto death, or the unpardonable sin; neither of which can be committed by a regenerate man.

Nor is the meaning only, though it is a sense that will very well bear, and agrees with the context, that such persons cannot sin as unregenerate men do; that is, live in a continued course of sinning, and with pleasure, and without reluctance, and so as to lie in it, as the whole world does: but rather the meaning is, he that is born of God, as he is born of God, or that which is born of God in him, the new man, or new creature, cannot sin; for that is pure and holy; there is nothing sinful in it, nor can anything that is sinful come out of it, or be done by it; it is the workmanship of the Holy Spirit of God; it is a good work, and well pleasing: in the sight of God, who is of purer eyes than to behold sin with delight; and an incorruptible seed, which neither corrupts nor is corrupted."

Albert Barnes:
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin - This passage must either mean that they who are born of God, that is, who are true Christians, do not sin habitually and characteristically, or that everyone who is a true Christian is absolutely perfect, and never commits any sin. If it can be used as referring to the doctrine of absolute perfection at all, it proves, not that Christians may be perfect, or that a “portion” of them are, but that all are.

But who can maintain this? Who can believe that John meant to affirm this? Nothing can be clearer than that the passage has not this meaning, and that John did not teach a doctrine so contrary to the current strain of the Scriptures, and to fact; and if he did not teach this, then in this whole passage he refers to those who are habitually and characteristically righteous.

For his seed remaineth in him - There is much obscurity in this expression, though the general sense is clear, which is, that there is something abiding in the heart of the true Christian which the apostle here calls “seed,” which will prevent his sinning.

The word “his” in this phrase, “his seed,” may refer either to the individual himself - in the sense that this can now be properly called “his,” inasmuch as it is a part of himself, or a principle abiding in him; or it may refer to God - in the sense that what is here called “seed” is “his,” that is, he has implanted it, or it is a germ of divine origin.

Blessings!

I did skim through it. Thank you, I know your intentions are good. But, just as I have explained the matter not allowing sin to have a foothold, we too are not to dwell on such things, but on what is good. So, no, I will not listen to those who wish to go on and on about their weakness when we have been given the power of God.

But there is a much simpler answer than to justify ongoing sin in your mind or to continue to fight a battle that has already won. The war is over, "finished." Lay down that sword, and take up the sword of righteousness, which we do, not for the battle, but for the harvest. Remember, the scriptures that we can go to for consolation were written to those who were just setting out, many of whom were even the firstfruits that would not receive the Holy Spirit before death. Thus, to make an argument from the scriptures is division, not because we each have a case, but because God has seen fit to divide his own at the cross. For this very reason, even Jesus, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Therefore, do not be drawn into that rift, it is a no man's land for those who have not been called - be one, or be the other.

Therefore, rightly divide the word, not giving justification now for what was only true then. No, we are not on the cusp of that age old battle, but on hallowed ground. It is not we who live, but Christ, who can do no sin. To those who believe this, it is written, "All things are lawful." Walk in the light.

But some will say, "But, try as I may, sin has not left me - it is evident. I know what sin is, and I am not perfect. It's a process." Little children, do not listen to the demons of the past and of the world. Christ has overcome the world. Not will, but "has." No, what you see now and call sin, this is the glass dimly from the other side, which you have passed through, and will continue to see as long as Christ gives you breath to do good works. This is your death, the grave, and you will see much sin while going out - but the end is not yet. But you are not of the sin, even in your own members, you are of Christ. Walk with Him and regard not the sin of the world. The world is passing away.

 

[Netchaplain]

I did skim through it. Thank you, I know your intentions are good. But, just as I have explained the matter not allowing sin to have a foothold, we too are not to dwell on such things, but on what is good. So, no, I will not listen to those who wish to go on and on about their weakness when we have been given the power of God.

Thank you too and I know you also only seek truth! We can be thankful that God will always guide those who are His into all truth (Jhn 16:13), thus it's always a matter of waiting and studying the Word to understand, "from glory to glory"!

Blessings!

 

[Helen]

@ScottA ..( I just read your post to @Netchaplain.)
So you don't see the difference between sin , which is nailed to the tree = finished....and sins?
So what was Paul saying when he said- "I die daily?" That sounds like a work of faith to me...it sounds like he was still very aware of the old man/ condition. When saying -
" Running the race" ....., " keeping his body under." Etc
It doesn't read to me as if he had 'laid down his sword' and was just enjoying (his position) of 'standing on hallowed ground.' . ?

We all agree that we don't live in a state of 'looking back' at the old , like Lot's wife..we 'press ahead'.
But I obviously still haven't 'got' yet, what you are describing here.
I am still in the 'condition' of standing by faith in my position.

Interested to hear more if you have it. Thanks.

 

[ScottA]

@ScottA ..( I just read your post to @Netchaplain.)
So you don't see the difference between sin , which is nailed to the tree = finished....and sins?
So what was Paul saying when he said- "I die daily?" That sounds like a work of faith to me...it sounds like he was still very aware of the old man/ condition. When saying -
" Running the race" ....., " keeping his body under." Etc
It doesn't read to me as if he had 'laid down his sword' and was just enjoying (his position) of 'standing on hallowed ground.' . ?

We all agree that we don't live in a state of 'looking back' at the old , like Lot's wife..we 'press ahead'.
But I obviously still haven't 'got' yet, what you are describing here.
I am still in the 'condition' of standing by faith in my position.

Interested to hear more if you have it. Thanks.

Again, Paul is working both sides, speaking to those who were hearing the gospel for the first time, those who had heard but had not yet received the Holy Spirit, and also to those who had...and he admittedly "became all things to all men", that he "by all means might save some." But we, who now hear every word that was spoke to all, are not all of the above, nor should we take every word to heart as if it were spoken to us regardless of where we are. We have been set free. We are not to "lay again the foundation of the elementary principles of Christ", but to "go on to perfection."

Do not misunderstand. In saying that he "died daily", Paul did not mean that it is not give "once to die", but rather many times. He made no alteration to what is written, but expressed his own good fight of laying down his own life daily for those to whom he preached. We too can put our life on the line daily - this we do for the harvest. But our own life we give but once.

What most struggle with, is the view. Unlike Paul who delivered the gospel in the infancy of the new heaven and new earth, our journey which we do for Christ (to live is Christ...and it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us), is now well advanced. Ours is a journey not unlike us driving ourselves to the cemetery. The more we focus on the rear view mirror instead of the road ahead, the sooner we will get there. "Let the dead bury the dead."

 

[Helen]

Again, Paul is working both sides, speaking to those who were hearing the gospel for the first time, those who had heard but had not yet received the Holy Spirit, and also to those who had...and he admittedly "became all things to all men", that he "by all means might save some." But we, who now hear every word that was spoke to all, are not all of the above, nor should we take every word to heart as if it were spoken to us regardless of where we are. We have been set free. We are not to "lay again the foundation of the elementary principles of Christ", but to "go on to perfection."

Do not misunderstand. In saying that he "died daily", Paul did not mean that it is not give "once to die", but rather many times. He made no alteration to what is written, but expressed his own good fight of laying down his own life daily for those to whom he preached. We too can put our life on the line daily - this we do for the harvest. But our own life we give but once.

What most struggle with, is the view. Unlike Paul who delivered the gospel in the infancy of the new heaven and new earth, our journey which we do for Christ (to live is Christ...and it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us), is now well advanced. Ours is a journey not unlike us driving ourselves to the cemetery. The more we focus on the rear view mirror instead of the road ahead, the sooner we will get there. "Let the dead bury the dead."

Im not saying that I have totally "got it yet"...but I can see the glimmer.
I need to read this a couple more times and let the Holy Spirit fliter it into my belief system. If it is saying what I think it's saying...I like it.
I just haven't made it "mine" yet. If it's truth, then my spirit will "get it" before my head does.

Im going to copy this and put it into my notes. And do some more "musing" before the Lord. Thank you I am always open to learn more than I have. It is the fool who believes that he has arrived at all truth.LOL

 

[ScottA]

Im not saying that I have totally "got it yet"...but I can see the glimmer.
I need to read this a couple more times and let the Holy Spirit fliter it into my belief system. If it is saying what I think it's saying...I like it.
I just haven't made it "mine" yet. If it's truth, then my spirit will "get it" before my head does.

Im going to copy this and put it into my notes. And do some more "musing" before the Lord. Thank you I am always open to learn more than I have. It is the fool who believes that he has arrived at all truth.LOL

Paul was like the oxen who tread out the grain, but also eat thereof. But if one quotes him treading and another quotes him eating, the one is not right and the other wrong. He eats for one, but treads for many...which need not be confusing, if we rightly divide the word.

It is a pleasure to converse with you. God bless!

 

[lforrest]

I think some of what Scott is saying here can be linked to 2 Corinthians 5:16. We are not even to know ourselves after our flesh. But to see ourselves as we are in the Spirit, a completed work. God knows us now in eternity.

 

[mjrhealth]

Hi Scott, good post, correct in all, just heard to explain "sin", to anyone. This was shown to me years ago, doesnt stop the enemy from trying to flood our minds with guilt. If I was a sinner I would never have being able to stand before God, but in that it is because of the rightousness of Christ, none of my / our doing. If people could but understand teh work is finished, they just need to accept it.

 

[mjrhealth]

I think Helen you need this bit.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

There are bits still cunfuz me but in simplicity, when we get to that cross, that place of death and do as He did, Yet not my will but your will be done", and there we do again as He done and lay down our lives, than us as He did are resurrected into the newness of His life, now that place of death, the cross is no longer ahead of us but behind us as it says.

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

So all we have ahead of us now is Christ and we do as He asks and follow Him. But many will never make it past that cross which is why in so many religions they still keep Him there. Jesus has not being on that cross for 2000 years .