Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
I agree that our focus should be on righteousness, but we also have to proclaim His death until He returns. I'm saying it's both/and, not either/or.
Hope you're having a blessed Thanksgiving Day!
“Dead to Sin”
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I agree that our focus should be on righteousness, but we also have to proclaim His death until He returns. I'm saying it's both/and, not either/or.
Hope you're having a blessed Thanksgiving Day!
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
One is obedient to God by choosing to obey God. Man choosing to obey or disobey therefore man is not born with a sin nature that forces man into doing nothing but sin. Such an idea would give man an excuse for his sin when man is without excuse Romans 1:20.
Hi EB! I think the subject of being born with the sin nature is so supported by Scripture that it's too obvious to debate using Scripture.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
The key point also is that sin was still in the flesh making the law weak. We MUST be born again of the Spirit. We need his power and a different nature, the divine nature.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
That depends on if you just believe in imputed righteousness, like an invisibility cloak of the blood of Jesus so that the Father can't see the sins we have no power over committing. If that is what you mean, then I can see why you would want to take the focus off of sin.
Again, that is what is so dangerous about Calvinism.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Was Paul born again? Yes.
Was Paul baptized in the Spirit? Yes.
Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Don't you get it? The law of the Spirit frees us from the carnal flesh.
Are you a Calvinist? Do you walk in darkness, and depend on imputed righteousness to save you?
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101G
Well-Known Member
First thanks for the reply, second, no I'm not a Calvinist. third,
Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
Romans 8:12 "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh."
Romans 8:13 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
Romans 8:15 "For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
Romans 8:16 "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"
Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
Romans 8:18 "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."
Romans 8:19 "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God."
Romans 8:20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,"
Romans 8:21 "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."Romans 8:23 "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."
Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
Romans 8:25 "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."
Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
Romans 8:27 "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."
Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."
now if you're so free and so sure of your salvation, FINE, (I have no argument with that), but... but, .... but right now you're in this flesh body. and I guess you don't need the Spirit to make intercession for you correct, so you're sin free right? ... yes or no.
PICJAG.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
101G
Well-Known Member
1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
So you never confessed any sins .... right? ....
PICJAG
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
So you never confessed any sins .... right? ....
PICJAG
When we repent as Peter preached in Acts 2:38 as I have done, how much unrighteousness is cleansed in 1 John 1:9?
101G
Well-Known Member
sure we will tell you how much..... Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"
so tell us, what about your Future sins now that you have come to God? hint.... 1 John 1:8 & 9 especially give attention to verse 9. now a question for you, how many times dose one needs cleansing? since you are free from sin. or do you need any cleasing at all?.
PICJAG.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
At least you know that it is only our past sins that are cleansed, and don't spout the fallacy of past, present and future sins. I'm impressed! So how does Jesus assure us of no longer sinning in the present and future? I know, but you need to think about it and learn, and I'll let you answer. 2 Peter 1:9 also shows us that is only our old sins that are cleansed.
You like hints, so I'll tell you that 1 John 1:9 is how to become a Christian, not a continuous need. So guess what? Verse 8 isn't a Christian yet. Ever since Adam sinned, everyone is born a sinner, even if they think they've lead a good life and never done anything wrong. It is the same with verse 10.
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@CharismaticLady
We are never saved and cleansed; then supposedly lost; then saved and cleansed again; then supposedly lost; etc.
In 1 John 1, the walking in the light is evidence that the believer is being cleansed, through faith in the blood of Christ.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Hi old friend, I'm not going to answer because I'm still wanting 101 to think about the answer. You've probably already read what I believe a number of times by now. But let me ask you a question, what do you believe you are allowed to do now that is unrighteous that if you didn't believe as you do, could make you lose your salvation? Anything? Murder? Idolatry? Sorcery? Stealing? Lying? Idol worship?
If I supposedly lose my salvation, then I was never saved in the first place. The Lord is 'able to save' (Hebrews 7.25); and 'able to keep' (Jude 24).
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
If one is sanctified, are they saved? If not, how does anyone know they ARE saved for those verses you quoted to be true about YOU.
101G
Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply, second, you said,"Ever since Adam sinned, everyone is born a sinner". ERROR. ... LOL, my, my, my, oh well. anyway, you said, also, "Verse 8 isn't a Christian yet", lol, lol. ok, let's see. 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." see that "WE" there, it's the same "WE" in 1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
so according to u CharismaticLady, the apostle John here is not saved, or is not a christian..... SAY WHAT! get out of here.....
now your second Peter, I hope he's saved too... (smile).
2 Peter 1:9 "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." THAT'S WHAT I HAVE SAID, NOW THE VERY NEXT VERSE,
2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" OK, HAVE YOU FAILED? LET'S SEE, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
WELL THAT'S PLAIN AND SIMPLE. IF, IF, IF, ANY MAN SIN. but I guess you never sin, nor never failed .... right? ...........
well CharismaticLady I'm not in the business of deceiving myself, I'm like the apostle, I haven't yet attained, Philippians 3:12-16 "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: (SAY WHAY? one might want to read that again) but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." 13 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before," 14 "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (one need to re-read that verse again also)" 15 "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." 16 "Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."
Now CharismaticLady one of us have not attained, because we're not walking by the same rule. ok... well I'll take the Low road, because I haven't yet attained, I'm still pressing toward the Mark of the high calling in christ Jesus, so that means you must have already attained and are PERFECT.
so case solved you're Perfect, and have attained, so be blessed ....... wait, hold it, I must take that back, how can I bless you when you're already PERFECT. since I'll not yet perfect, why don't you bless me ...... Thank you.
so my usual ending to you, since you're PERFECT, only peace to U. Peace In Christ Jesus, the Almighty God
well, well, well that acronym
P I C J A G. .......... has finally come full circle ......
good day.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply, second, you said,"Ever since Adam sinned, everyone is born a sinner". ERROR. ... LOL, my, my, my, oh well. anyway, you said, also, "Verse 8 isn't a Christian yet", lol, lol. ok, let's see. 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." see that "WE" there, it's the same "WE" in 1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
so according to u CharismaticLady, the apostle John here is not saved, or is not a christian..... SAY WHAT! get out of here.....
now your second Peter, I hope he's saved too... (smile).
2 Peter 1:9 "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." THAT'S WHAT I HAVE SAID, NOW THE VERY NEXT VERSE,
2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" OK, HAVE YOU FAILED? LET'S SEE, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
WELL THAT'S PLAIN AND SIMPLE. IF, IF, IF, ANY MAN SIN. but I guess you never sin, nor never failed .... right? ...........
well CharismaticLady I'm not in the business of deceiving myself, I'm like the apostle, I haven't yet attained, Philippians 3:12-16 "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: (SAY WHAY? one might want to read that again) but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." 13 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before," 14 "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (one need to re-read that verse again also)" 15 "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." 16 "Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."
Now CharismaticLady one of us have not attained, because we're not walking by the same rule. ok... well I'll take the Low road, because I haven't yet attained, I'm still pressing toward the Mark of the high calling in christ Jesus, so that means you must have already attained and are PERFECT.
so case solved you're Perfect, and have attained, so be blessed ....... wait, hold it, I must take that back, how can I bless you when you're already PERFECT. since I'll not yet perfect, why don't you bless me ...... Thank you.
so my usual ending to you, since you're PERFECT, only peace to U. Peace In Christ Jesus, the Almighty God
well, well, well that acronym
P I C J A G. .......... has finally come full circle ......
Who, besides Jesus, wasn't born a sinner. Paul says, "for ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." So how is that error?
What do you think Paul meant when he said he had not apprehended. Apprehended what? Do you believe he was talking about sin, or perfection? There are stages of perfection that have nothing to do with sin.
You have 1 John 1:8 contradicting 1 John 3.
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
