“I will spit you out” ....

[Episkopos]

Isn’t salvation actually receiving something from God? What is it we receive from God?

That's just it. We can't claim for ourselves what we have received from God...to do with as we please.

Everyone that is alive in the world has received the gift of a body and a temporal life. And we all will be judged afterwards for what we have done in the body.

Likewise we who have received a second level of life also are given this as a gift. But again a judgment will be held on what we have done with it. And the judgment here is more severe.

And in both judgments there will be winners and losers.

For the world judgment (GWT)...it is either life or death for these.
But judgment (Bema) begins at the house of God...and there will be vessels of honour AND dishonour. The ones who are spit out are the vessels of shame and nakedness...all their works having been burned up. These will go into outer darkness away from the presence of God. Without holiness none shall see the Lord.

 

[Candidus]

Because we are His, because we are saved, born again, born into His family, which family relationship can never be broken. Because just like when we were born into this world this birth can never be undone for it has happened the Eternal Divine nature, that is our second birth. Which is even more glorious and eternal, because it is His life born in us which it to can never be undone....

I think that building on an unbiblical anthropomorphism can be unwittingly deceptive.

In Romans 8:23 we are told that our adoption is not finalized until we receive our glorification. "Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies." (NIV).

His life born in us can be undone! "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you..." Gal. 4:19 (KJV).

I would not base my hope on presuming a familial grace that does not exist yet!

 

[Not me]

Eternal life. But it's only available for believers. If one becomes a non believer, it's no longer his.

No worries, I see a heart after God in your posts, I am interested in your thoughts if you could but make me understand them..

(Sorry about the picture inserts I got cubby fingers and don’t know how to get rid of them..)

a fellow believer, Not me

That's just it. We can't claim for ourselves what we have received from God...to do with as we please.

Everyone that is alive in the world has received the gift of a body and a temporal life. And we all will be judged afterwards for what we have done in the body.

Likewise we who have received a second level of life also are given this as a gift. But again a judgment will be held on what we have done with it. And the judgment here is more severe.

And in both judgments there will be winners and losers.

For the world judgment (GWT)...it is either life or death for these.
But judgment (Bema) begins at the house of God...and there will be vessels of honour AND dishonour. The ones who are spit out are the vessels of shame and nakedness...all their works having been burned up. These will go into outer darkness away from the presence of God. Without holiness none shall see the Lord.

Be blessed as you work out your own salvation with fear and trembling..

A servant of His, Not me

I think that building on an unbiblical anthropomorphism can be unwittingly deceptive.

In Romans 8:23 we are told that our adoption is not finalized until we receive our glorification. "Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies." (NIV).

His life born in us can be undone! "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you..." Gal. 4:19 (KJV).

I would not base my hope on presuming a familial grace that does not exist yet!

Be blessed, if and when you receive the new birth....

A servant of Christ, Not me

 

[Not me]

Eternal life. But it's only available for believers. If one becomes a non believer, it's no longer his.

Yes, but what is the mechanism of Eternal life?

A fellow seeker after truth, Not me

 

[Renniks]

No worries, I see a heart after God in your posts, I am interested in your thoughts if you could but make me understand them..

My thoughts are not that important. Scripture saying we can fall away is.

 

[Renniks]

Yes, but what is the mechanism of Eternal

I'm not sure what that means?

 

[Not me]

My thoughts are not that important. Scripture saying we can fall away is.

Be blessed as we learn Christ, Not me

 

[amadeus]

Such a blessing it is when scripture says, we all (believers) are partakers of chastisement making us all His children, and once His child, always His child.

Be blessed in being His child, a fellow child, Not me

Be blessed for if you are sincere and trust really always in Him to end of your course, you will certainly always be His child. I won't argue our differences with you. At least your answer is a soft one.

 

[Candidus]

Be blessed, if and when you receive the new birth....

A servant of Christ, Not me

This is a response to what the Bible says?

Certainly a great example of "I don't care what the Bible has to say; I have a theory"!

 

[Not me]

I'm not sure what that means?

Did not Jesus say “you must be born again”?

So the Divine nature needs to come to birth in us, or in different words, the new birth...Is this not how we receive Eternal life.. If this is true, than those not in possession of this New Life are not His..

How blessed we are in being His, Not me

 

[Not me]

Be blessed for if you are sincere and trust really always in Him to end of your course, you will certainly always be His child. I won't argue our differences with you. At least your answer is a soft one.

Be blessed as He becomes our all, Not me

 

[Not me]

This is a response to what the Bible says?

Certainly a great example of "I don't care what the Bible has to say; I have a theory"!

I’m sorry, your post gave the impression you were still waiting to become part of God’s family, so I was hoping the best for you..

Forgive, if I miss understood?

Blessings in Him, Not me

 

[Enoch111]

‘So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

CONTEXT IS CRITICAL. To whom was this addressed and what was their spiritual condition? Only then can we understand what this means.

REVELATION 3: A CHURCH OF PROFESSORS ONLY

CHRIST DESCRIBES HIMSELF
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

CHRIST DESCRIBES THE SPIRITUAL CONDITION OF THIS CHURCH
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

MERE OUTWARD PROFESSION IS NOT ACCEPTABLE
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

THEIR TRUE SPIRITUAL CONDITION: UNREGENERATE AND UNSAVED
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

"YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN"
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

CHRIST LOVES UNREPENTANT SINNERS BUT DEMANDS REPENTANCE
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

CHRIST MUST BE RECEIVED INTO THE SOUL BY FAITH
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

OVERCOMERS ARE KINGS (AND PRIESTS)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

EVERY INDIVIDUAL MUST LISTEN WITH THE INNER EAR
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

This was undoubtedly a *Christian* church (gathering). But those who came together were merely professing Christians -- they had the label of "Christian" but were unregenerate sinners. How do we know this?

1. Gold is a metaphor for the precious eternal life and eternal inheritance given to children of God.

2. White raiment is a metaphor for the robe of righteousness (the righteousness of Christ) given to those who are justified by grace through faith.

3. Eye salve is a metaphor for the unction or anointing of the Holy Spirit given to the children of God.

All of these were absent, but were being offered freely by Christ.

 

[Not me]

CONTEXT IS CRITICAL. To whom was this addressed and what was their spiritual condition? Only then can we understand what this means.

REVELATION 3: A CHURCH OF PROFESSORS ONLY

CHRIST DESCRIBES HIMSELF
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

CHRIST DESCRIBES THE SPIRITUAL CONDITION OF THIS CHURCH
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

MERE OUTWARD PROFESSION IS NOT ACCEPTABLE
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

THEIR TRUE SPIRITUAL CONDITION: UNREGENERATE AND UNSAVED
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

"YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN"
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

CHRIST LOVES UNREPENTANT SINNERS BUT DEMANDS REPENTANCE
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

CHRIST MUST BE RECEIVED INTO THE SOUL BY FAITH
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

OVERCOMERS ARE KINGS (AND PRIESTS)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

EVERY INDIVIDUAL MUST LISTEN WITH THE INNER EAR
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

This was undoubtedly a *Christian* church (gathering). But those who came together were merely professing Christians -- they had the label of "Christian" but were unregenerate sinners. How do we know this?

1. Gold is a metaphor for the precious eternal life and eternal inheritance given to children of God.

2. White raiment is a metaphor for the robe of righteousness (the righteousness of Christ) given to those who are justified by grace through faith.

3. Eye salve is a metaphor for the unction or anointing of the Holy Spirit given to the children of God.

All of these were absent, but were being offered freely by Christ.

As the Spirit of Christ in you so teaches you....

Be blessed that the teaching, Not me

 

[amadeus]

“Be not highminded ...” Romans 12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Realize we disagree sometimes here so only asking to consider: is not those high things to be cut off? “Wise in your own conceits”. Maybe I’m making too much out of a verse (value your input) if I am but the many translations, how can they all fit?

The whole picture that God sees is what we need to be approaching. How good is our vision? Before we know God at all we are effectively blind. Some people who do come to God then get stuck on a dead end street or miss a turn they needed to take. The to approach God and to see more clearly what He sees is first through faith [necessary for one with no or poor vision] and then through humility. The highmindedness is of course another pathway which unbelievers walk. Unfortunately believers when they move on without God follow a similar prideful pathway. We should not want to be like them, but rather like Jesus who was selfless as he walked planet Earth as a man 2000 years ago.

People see the apparent differences is what verses of scripture say to them and sometimes not being really open or that interested go ahead and decide against God in whom they do not believe or trust because they cannot understand. Of course God will help them... if they really want help. Many people like their little places in hell... this being hell for them.

“But the sight of the wicked will fail. Their way of escape will be cut off, and their only hope is their last breath.”
(1 Thessalonians 5:3) their way of escape is cut off. Is that evil “their escape cut off” as there is also at least till now a door opened, a way of escape.

As I already said we need to see the whole thing as God sees it. People often reject or ignore the OT having decided that it applies little or not at all toward them. The natural children of Israel escaped from Egypt following the man of God Moses, but in the wilderness they repeatedly seem to forget what God had already done for them. They repeatedly murmured against Moses and thereby against God. They repented and He accepted their repentance repeatedly until He would no longer accept their attempts to repent... no more room as perhaps with Esau?

Their escape from the wilderness into the Promised Land was cut off. Forty years they were to wander eating their manna and drinking the water God provided... but never to enter in... That is a picture, a type or a shadow of the reality which God promises to those who walk with Him all of the Way to the end of the road. But... on the road there are pitfalls and thorns and enemies attacking seemingly at times, continuously. After their ten rebellions against God the way into the Promised Land was closed. They had their 40 years or less, but after that, nothing but death.

“But the wicked will look around in despair and find that there is no way to escape. Their one hope is that death will come.” (Job 3:21)

Death of their flesh was the end for the natural children of Israel, who rebelled against God too much.

Death of the flesh is the end for those today who remain in the unbelief. Perhaps they will get a little satisfaction in their spouses and/or children and friends today or some fun if they have the opportunity to enjoy sports or entertainment parks or whatever temporal things may be available to some... but that is all. Many have much less fortunate than that.

“the eyes of the wicked shall fail, And they shall have no way to flee; And their hope shall be the giving up of the ghost.”
(Mark 15:37), (Mark 15:39), Father, unto they hands I commend my spirit. (Luke 23:46)

Who has to be or to remain wicked today? There is a better Way, but how many can see it or are really interested if they ever look that way at all? So they "eat, drink and be merry" today if they can. As the pain and anguish of this life alone catches up with them in the lonely empty place without God, their hope is found in dying to get away from the pain of it all.

Jesus had more and those who really trust in Him have more. They have not less than Hope.

“But safety shall fail them; for their hope is destruction, and the eyes of the ungodly shall waste away.” (1 Thessalonians 5:3) their safety cut off.
“The ungodly shall waste away” (Romans 5:6) “the eyes of the ungodly shall waste away” (Zechariah 14:11-12)..their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

“But those who are evil will go blind and lose their way. Their only escape is death!” (1 Corinthians 2:2) For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Some will refuse the idea that this place of our flesh is our trial, or way to move closer to Him if we really love Him. Too many are too selfish in wanting to receive the blessings of God but unwilling to admit the need to drink a cup that is very bitter indeed. In pursuing and desiring the 'good' things of the flesh here and now, with their words, 'I am saved' lose sight of how much God loves us. Did He love His Son Jesus enough to 'save' him from the horrible suffering and death which were part of his cup? What is in our cup, which is ours to drink?

How many of us will be blessed as young Stephen was blessed...? Do we love God so much that as they stone us to a painful physical death, we will be focused on Jesus and God in spite of what he had not would not receive in this temporal world of flesh.

But the ungodly are who? Has anyone who knew and saw God been blinded because he took his eyes off of God? Consider the case of Samson, who was richly blessed, but following his own flesh away from God had his eyes put out.
Or consider the prophet [I Kings 13] sent out of Judah to King Jeroboam the first king of the separated northern 10 tribes. That prophet of God prophesied about the not yet born good king Josiah of Judah, but then the prophet lost his focus looking to what men offered instead of holding to God. A lion killed him and he never made it home again...

People want to say that they cannot so displease God once they have repented and been 'saved' but they ignore the scriptures that say otherwise and they effectively call our unchanging God a liar by saying that He treats them better than He did those who lived as men in the OT...

Help us dear Lord!

 

[prism]

Revelation 2:5 (NASB)
‘Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place--unless you repent.

It, once again is talking about the witness and testimony in a life being removed from out of its place, where it belongs...For the witness and testimony of Christ is the lamp stand,

Actually it (lamp stand/candlesticks) refers to the Churches not the individual or 'the witness and testimony in a life'

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
(Rev 1:20)

 

[Not me]

Actually it (lamp stand/candlesticks) refers to the Churches not the individual or 'the witness and testimony in a life'

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
(Rev 1:20)

Are not churches just groups of individual believers that are to show forth His witness and testimony?

If the witness and testimony is gone, the church itself becomes useless to Jesus, for it’s only purpose to exist, is to show forth His witness and testimony. For without it, it is just a group of people expressing the life of self..

Be blessed as we grow up and into Him in all things.

A fellow believer, Not me

 

[prism]

Are not churches just groups of individual believers that are to show forth His witness and testimony?

If the witness and testimony is gone, the church itself becomes useless to Jesus, for it’s only purpose to exist, is to show forth His witness and testimony. For without it, it is just a group of people expressing the life of self..

Be blessed as we grow up and into Him in all things.

A fellow believer, Not me

We can come up with our own 'reasoned definitions', I was just giving you Scripture's explanation of the candlestick/lampstand.
You can go with your own definition if you want but as for me, I'll stick with Scripture.

 

[rockytopva]

The purpose of Revelation was to reveal what was going to come to pass....

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.... - Revelation 1:1

Which all of this was to heavy for just ordinary churches in Asia that did not amount to anything....

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado?

I believe these are Laodicean times in which it is hard to find faith friends, revival, good churches, good fellowship, and steadfast people. I miss the old WW2 generation. It seems like with my generation we were in competition to see who could outdo each other materially.

 

[Not me]

We can come up with our own 'reasoned definitions', I was just giving you Scripture's explanation of the candlestick/lampstand.
You can go with your own definition if you want but as for me, I'll stick with Scripture.

Thanks I realize I am free and so are you, free also to believe there are candle sticks and lamp stands in Heaven and they are not there to portray something in figure....But what is of value is pursuing Christ with all our hearts...But also know that the first words in Revelations say, “the Revelation of Jesus Christ” so everything to come is for that purpose of revealing Him..

Be blessed as we learn Christ, Not me

The purpose of Revelation was to reveal what was going to come to pass....

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.... - Revelation 1:1

Which all of this was to heavy for just ordinary churches in Asia that did not amount to anything....

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado?

I believe these are Laodicean times in which it is hard to find faith friends, revival, good churches, good fellowship, and steadfast people. I miss the old WW2 generation. It seems like with my generation we were in competition to see who could outdo each other materially.

God’s purpose is to have all things summed up in Christ. The Revelation that God give to what was to shortly come to pass was all for the purpose of revealing and summing up all things in Christ... For the manifestation and the Revelation of God’s Son is the purpose of all creation and creatures...All that was shortly to come to pass was for the single purpose to bring to manifestation the Revelation of Jesus Christ for that is God’s intimate goal the revealing of His Son...

(Food for thought)

Be blessed in Him, Not me