1 Jn 3:8: "I am a sinner saved by grace"

[justbyfaith]

Your ID on the forum is deceiving. I certainly do not see that what you believe is just about faith.

The word "just" has more than one meaning. And for the most part, I do indeed preach that a man is saved "only" by faith. Apparently you do not read all of my posts.

You add what man has to do and refuse to acknowledge that Jesus did everything necessary for a person to be saved on the cross where He paid for the sins of all mankind.

Jesus did it all; and included in this is that He has made us into new creatures in Him. Old things (a sinful lifestyle) is passed away; behold, all things have become new. What is new is what is holy and pure.

that every human being is a sinner in God's eyes,

If that is the case, then every human being is a child of the devil in the Lord's eyes:

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Assuming that everyone who commits sin is a sinner; and that this is the definition of a sinner: someone who commits sin.

Thus every sinner is a child of the devil.

and every saint is merely a sinner saved by grace and kept by the power of God.

So every saint is therefore a child of the devil and yet saved by grace and kept by the power of God. If you think that they are also the children of God, beware lest you find yourself preaching that God is the devil.

Repenting of a sin does not mean it will be impossible for him to ever commit that sin again.

To repent means to turn away from sin and means that you will not commit that sin again; unless you repent of your repentance and begin again to walk in the direction of sin:

2Co 7:10, For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Your positions appears to be the Christian must be perfectly sinless which is not possible 1 John 1:7-10.

No; a Christian is not sinless; for sin dwells in his mortal flesh: however the element of sin can be rendered dead (Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:6, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has authority over the behaviour of the one who is born of God.

 

[Enoch111]

If that is the case, then every human being is a child of the devil in the Lord's eyes

FALSE.

So every saint is therefore a child of the devil and yet saved by grace and kept by the power of God. If you think that they are also the children of God, beware lest you find yourself preaching that God is the devil.

TOTAL NONSENSE

 

[justbyfaith]

So every saint is therefore a child of the devil and yet saved by grace and kept by the power of God. If you think that they are also the children of God, beware lest you find yourself preaching that God is the devil.

TOTAL NONSENSE

I agree that it is total nonsense...yet it is the logical conclusion of the idea that saints are "sinners saved by grace".

that every human being is a sinner in God's eyes,

If that is the case, then every human being is a child of the devil in the Lord's eyes:

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Assuming that everyone who commits sin is a sinner; and that this is the definition of a sinner: someone who commits sin.

Thus every sinner is a child of the devil.

 

[justbyfaith]

that every human being is a sinner in God's eyes,

If that is the case, then every human being is a child of the devil in the Lord's eyes:

FALSE.

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Assuming that everyone who commits sin is a sinner; and that this is the definition of a sinner: someone who commits sin.

Thus every sinner is a child of the devil.

Don't forget to click to see what is further down.

 

[07-07-07]

God does not refer to His people as sinners. One is either a Saint or a sinner. One is either holy or unholy. One is either righteous or unrighteous. One is either on the narrow road that leads to life or the broad road that leads to eternal damnation. Judge yourself with God's mirror, the Holy Bible, to see where you stand.

 

[Enoch111]

Don't forget to click to see what is further down.

If you wish to consider yourself a child of the devil, that's your prerogative. Just don't smear everyone else with that label.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you wish to consider yourself a child of the devil, that's your prerogative. Just don't smear everyone else with that label.

I don't. I consider that I have repented of my besetting sins and am no more a child of the devil (even because of the scripture at hand).

The scripture is crystal clear that he that committeth sin is of the devil.

So is it not just me making this assessment that every sinner is a child of the devil; but it is the holy scriptures that make this assessment.

Because I think it is only logical that sinners are those who commit sin; and that therefore every sinner is a child of the devil. Even those who proudly tout that they are "sinners saved by grace".

It is a lie from the pit of hell.

Because grace is the power in the believer not to sin.

So if I have power not to sin; and yet continue to do so: it is because I am choosing to sin. And will I not be held accountable in judgment for such a thing? It would mean that I never really did repent; or that once I repented, I repented of my repentance (see 2 Corinthians 7:10).

But scripture is clear that those who are saved are only those who are walking in the direction of righteousness and away from the direction of sin.

God calls all men everywhere to repent. If you are not walking in repentance, and bearing fruits worthy of repentance, then you are like a tree waiting to be cut down with an axe. The axe is laid to the root of the trees; and every tree that beareth not good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[amadeus]

Therefore it is no longer I, but sin that lives in me . . .

In Christ, we are not the sinner any longer.

Much love!

But out of Christ we are!

 

[justbyfaith]

But out of Christ we are!

Indeed; for "whosoever abideth in him sinneth not."

Now if anyone sinneth not, then they are not outside of Christ.

It would seem that we are forbidden to claim that we are in Christ; unless, in declaring that we do not sin, this is not the same as saying that we have no sin. And I believe that this is the case.

For the scripture is clear (see 2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv)) that whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

It should be clear that the element of sin dwells in each and every one of us; but that if we have the Spirit of the Lord we do not have to obey the element of sin dwelling within us.

 

[Enoch111]

The scripture is crystal clear that he that committeth sin is of the devil.

What you have done is taken a verse out of context and distorted the truth. You are insisting that Christians are children of the devil, which is a devilish thing to be saying.

JOHN IS ADDRESSING CHILDREN OF GOD
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

CHILDREN OF GOD DO NOT HABITUALLY PERSIST IN SIN
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[Note: "and he cannot sin" applies to the new nature]

BUT CHRISTIANS CAN AND DO SIN AND MUST CONFESS
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This does not make Christians children of the devil. And yes every child of God is a sinner saved by grace, so what you are promoting is heresy.

 

[justbyfaith]

What you have done is taken a verse out of context and distorted the truth.

I encourage the reader to read the verse in its context.

You are insisting that Christians are children of the devil, which is a devilish thing to be saying.

What I am saying is that not everyone who says that they are Christian are necessarily born again; just like walking into a McDonald's doesn't make you a hamburger.

[Note: "and he cannot sin" applies to the new nature]

So what we do in the flesh doesn't matter? Sounds like gnosticism to me...

BUT CHRISTIANS CAN AND DO SIN AND MUST CONFESS
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

We have all sinned B.C.

And all of us have the element of sin dwelling in our mortal flesh. Which does not mean that we have to obey that element; because it can be rendered dead (Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:6, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any authority over our behaviour.

Also, does 1 John 1:8-10 nullify 1 John 3:5-9? I believe that my statements above do reconcile the verses completely.

This does not make Christians children of the devil. And yes every child of God is a sinner saved by grace, so what you are promoting is heresy.

No, true Christians are not children of the devil; for they abide in Christ: and that for ever (1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, 1 John 2:27).

If what I am promoting is heresy, then give scriptural proof that it is heresy.

Also, since you have challenged me to the extent that you have, I require you to give scriptural backing for your statement that every child of God is a sinner saved by grace.

It simply doesn't exist. Because what you are saying is, in effect, that every child of God is also a child of the devil who is going to heaven (saved by grace). Because "he that committeth sin is of the devil." Thus every sinner is a child of the devil.

It seems to me that you are implying that God is the devil.

I unequicvocably reject such a view. In my view, if anyone is in Christ (abiding in Him) he sinneth not (1 John 3:6).

Thus Christ is not the devil.

But if he that committeth sin is a child of God, then you have a theological problem, that the children of the devil are also the children of God. I would point out to you the following:

Mal 2:10, Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

 

[justbyfaith]

Also, I am not preaching heresy here but combating it.

The heresy in question is identified as the inevitability of sin.

It is simply taught in too many mainstream churches.

The Buck stops here.

Isa 59:19, So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

 

[amadeus]

Indeed; for "whosoever abideth in him sinneth not."

Now if anyone sinneth not, then they are not outside of Christ.

It would seem that we are forbidden to claim that we are in Christ; unless, in declaring that we do not sin, this is not the same as saying that we have no sin. And I believe that this is the case.

For the scripture is clear (see 2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv)) that whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

It should be clear that the element of sin dwells in each and every one of us; but that if we have the Spirit of the Lord we do not have to obey the element of sin dwelling within us.

What I see in us are the twins [Jacob and Esau] in Sarah's womb contending with each other even before birth. This is the old man of us versus the new man of us. The old man has no chance of winning...unless we quench the Spirit of God that wants to work in us. If we don't with Him on the right hand, we may find ourselves working for left hand along with the goats.

Everyone works for God, but we should rather be working with Him.

 

[justbyfaith]

What I see in us are the twins [Jacob and Esau] in Sarah's womb contending with each other even before birth. This is the old man of us versus the new man of us. The old man has no chance of winning...unless we quench the Spirit of God that wants to work in us. If we don't with Him on the right hand, we may find ourselves working for left hand along with the goats.

Everyone works for God, but we should rather be working with Him.

Except that one of the twins, ideally, is dead in the womb and will come out a stillborn.

I probably don't need to tell you which twin is ideally dead.

Between the Spirit and the flesh, we are told to crucify, not the Spirit, but the flesh; or the old man (Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:6).

 

[justbyfaith]

After a confrontation with my pastor and as a result of their prayers for me; as I have heard the voice of the Lord on this issue: I realize that I myself am a sinner saved by grace; as Jesus said, If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give good things / the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him?

Jesus is the light of the world; and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil.

Psa 139:11, If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Psa 139:12, Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

I don't know how to explain the glitch in logic that I have presented in this thread, except to say the following scripture:

2Co 3:6, Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[jshiii]

I am curious as to what people think of the following scripture...

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

I wonder if when people say such things as, "I am a sinner saved by grace;" that they realize that they are in effect saying, "I am a child of the devil who is nevertheless going to heaven."

Do the children of God therefore go to hell?

If the above statement (in larger letters) does not bother you, then I just wonder about your moral rectitude as a believer.

This along the lines of the subject of whether repentance is needed for salvation.

I think you and I need to have a "Listening Prayer Session." Google Tending The Heart. You have been hurt in some way? Let's bring you PEACE. One that only Jesus can give.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think you and I need to have a "Listening Prayer Session." Google Tending The Heart. You have been hurt in some way?

Yoga? not interested.

 

[justbyfaith]

After a confrontation with my pastor and as a result of their prayers for me; as I have heard the voice of the Lord on this issue: I realize that I myself am a sinner saved by grace; as Jesus said, If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give good things / the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him?

Jesus is the light of the world; and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil.

Psa 139:11, If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Psa 139:12, Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

I don't know how to explain the glitch in logic that I have presented in this thread, except to say the following scripture:

2Co 3:6, Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Sometimes when I think I am hearing the voice of the Lord, I am really not.

One way I can know whether a voice is from the Lord or not is whether there is a flash of singular light (as angels dancing on the head of a pin) noticeable to me before the voice speaks.

A real voice from the Lord appeared and showed me that the previous voice that I thought was the Lord was in fact from the enemy. The devil getting trickier in his attempts to convince me that he/they is/are Jesus when they speak.

But I am to go not only by the hearing of my ears but by the sight of my eyes when discerning angels and demons.

Sometimes I can be mistaken about the source of any voice that I am hearing.

But when the angel appears, I can know pretty certainly that it is of Him.

 

[farouk]

I think you and I need to have a "Listening Prayer Session." Google Tending The Heart. You have been hurt in some way? Let's bring you PEACE. One that only Jesus can give.

Peace:
Philippians 4 is good reading; as is John 14.27...

 

[justbyfaith]

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