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Featured 2 Corinthians 4, 16-18 'Outward' and 'Inward'

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by charity, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'For all things are for your sakes,
    .. that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many
    .... redound to the glory of God.
    For which cause we faint not;
    ..
    but though our outward man perish,
    ....
    yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
    For our light affliction, which is but for a moment,
    .. worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
    .... While we look not at the things which are seen,
    ...... but at the things which are not seen:
    for the things which are seen are temporal;
    .. but the things which are not seen are eternal.'

    (2 Corinthians 4:15-18)

    Hello there,

    I have started this thread to continue a train of thought and avenue of investigation begun by @VictoryinJesus in the thread based on 2 Corinthians 5:4, and 'The Unclothed State', reply#82 (link):- The Unclothed State (2 Cor. 5:4)

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  2. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Reply 82 by @VictoryinJesus (slightly modified for a new thread)

    The other morning I woke with these passages on my mind. Out of nowhere. The outward must be changed “glory to glory”; consider all the verses of that which is outward and that which is inward. What God says of the two. Corruption and “the incorruptible”...

    Romans 2:28-29
    For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly;
    neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly;
    and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter;
    whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    2 Corinthians 4:16-18
    [16] For which cause we faint not;
    but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
    [17] For our light affliction, which is but for a moment,
    worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
    [18] While we look not at the things which are seen,
    but at the things which are not seen:
    for the things which are seen are temporal;
    but the things which are not seen are eternal.

    Do we not wait for that which is not seen to be seen? That which is not manifest to be revealed? For that inward to swallow up that which is outward and perishing...passing away. Where is death if not in that outward Jew who circumcision in the flesh profits nothing but was a shadow of Him who was to come? His call to put on...be clothed upon...by that inward “hidden man” (the promise) he who is circumcised of the heart by the hand of God and born from above?

    Hebrews 4:2-3
    For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them:
    but the word preached did not profit them,
    not being mixed with faith in them that heard it .
    [3] For we which have believed do enter into rest,
    as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest:
    although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

    Romans 11:23
    [23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in:
    for God is able to graft them in again.

    Does not the outward Jew put on the inward Jew and then the saying is fulfilled “death is swallowed up in victory” by the “hidden man” of God? Death in the flesh swallowed by victory in the Spirit of God? Death in the circumcision of the flesh (which profits nothing) swallowed up by the circumcision of the heart by God’s hand?

    Isn’t the inward man, born of God, the topic of Romans 8:20-21?

    [20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly,
    but by reason of Him who hath subjected the same in hope,
    [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption
    into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

    — not the outward but delivered into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
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  3. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
    are changed into the same image from glory to glory,
    even as by the Spirit of the Lord.'

    (2 Corinthians 3:18)

    Hello @VictoryinJesus,

    I hope you approve of my taking the liberty of beginning this thread to be able to discuss the points you have raised. Hope too that the slight alteration made, to take out personal comment, also meets with your approval, in the hope that others will join you in thinking this through.

    I have to go offline now, but hope to return - God willing.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  4. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @VictoryinJesus,

    Lets look at the terms 'Inward man' and 'Outward man' first of all, to make sure that we are both of the same understanding concerning them:-

    The Outward Man - is that which is seen, and which actually perishes (2 Corinthians 4:16), and this is 'day by day'. This tells us that as long as we are in the flesh, we must suffer this 'burden': and that no ordinance connected with that which perishes, can be of any use in that domain where all is, and must be spiritual; ie., of the Spirit.

    The Inward Man (Romans 7:22; 2 Corinthians 4:16)
    This is in contrast with 'the outward man', which perishes day by day, while this 'inward' man, 'is renewed day by day'. In Ephesians 3:16 it is called 'the inner man'. Instead of perishing, it is constantly being nourished and replenished day by day with grace and strength by the Holy Spirit; so that Christ thus dwells in the heart by faith (Ephesians 3:19); and we get to know something of His love which passeth knowledge, and are filled with all the fulness of God (Ephesians 3:19). This explains Ephesians 1:23; and shows how the church, which is the body of Christ, is 'the fulness of Him that filleth all (the members of His body) with all (needed spiritual grace and strength)'. The inward man delights in the law of God (Romans 7:22). The other 'is not subject to the law of God' (Romans 7:22). Which explains the conflict between them, which must go on unto death ends the struggle. This is what caused the Apostle Paul (along with all of like faith) to cry, 'O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death', or, 'this body of death' ie., the 'body appointed to death' (Romans 5:12). Thankfully the triumphant answer is, 'I thank God (He will deliver me) through Jesus Christ our Lord'.

    Praise God!

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris

    Ref: 'The Two Natures in the Child of God' by E.W. Bullinger.
     
  5. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'But we all, with open face beholding
    as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
    are changed into the same image
    from glory to glory,
    even as by the Spirit of the Lord.'

    (2 Corinthians 3:18)

    Hello again, @VictoryinJesus,

    Just one more term to consider before your questions are tackled, to ensure we are on the same wavelength:-

    'Glory to glory' (2 Corinthians 3:18) refers to the transformation that is being daily effected in the lives of those who have no veil coming between them and the Lord: by beholding the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ and His redemptive purpose: in His person, His Work and Words, through the reading of the written Word, by faith experience and it's practical outworking in heart and life; never forgetting the love of God which makes it all possible; conform more and more to the image of Christ. Though only when we awake in resurrection glory will be bear His likeness.

    As for me, I will behold Thy face in righteousness:
    I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with Thy likeness.'

    (Psalm 17:15)

    Praise God!

    In Christ Jesus
    Christ
     
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  6. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Following so far and would agree. Considered the conversation yesterday for quite some time and one that stood out in relation to that which is “outward” and that which is “inward” is 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

    “...we have a building of God,”
    Question may be: “we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.” Two questions here actually: Stephen’s cry that God resides no longer in temples made with hands...but in a house not made with hands which is the Spiritual body built up in Christ? Why then the “eternal in heaven” as if that house built of God which can not and will not be “dissolved” and is our confidence; is someplace else; apart from those born again?

    Second question is the IF our earthly tabernacle is “dissolved” when 2 Peter 3:11 says “Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,...”

    What dissolves and what remains in relation to the outward and inward?

    2 Peter 3:12-13
    [12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? [13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    1 John 4:15-16
    [15] Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. [16] And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

    1 John 3:24
    [24] And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


    Thank you. I’m glad you started a thread. :)
     
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  7. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @VictoryinJesus,

    Looking at 2 Corinthians 5:1, that you refer to, it follows Paul's words in chapter 4 concerning his afflictions for the gospel's sake:-
    'For which cause we faint not;
    but though our outward man perish,
    yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

    For our light affliction, which is but for a moment,
    worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
    While we look not at the things which are seen,
    but at the things which are not seen:
    for the things which are seen are temporal;
    but the things which are not seen are eternal.'

    (2 Corinthians 4:16)

    * Paul is referring to his own physical body, it was that earthly house that could perish. that tabernacle (or tent) could be dissolved. However, he had the hope of a resurrection body, which is of God, as enlarged upon in 1 Corinthians 15, which will replace that which is earthy. It is 'eternal' and 'in the heavens'. :)

    * I will have to come back and address your questions another time, I'm afraid. :(

    Thank you.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  8. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    No rush. (Thank you for taking the time to answer). Still pondering these passages myself. This is possibly getting close to where we may see it differently.
     
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  9. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @VictoryinJesus,

    The references above, are those you have quoted in your posts, do you think that we ought to look at them individually, in order to proceed, taking into account the comment you have already made in relation to them. For I want to understand what part they play in the train of thought you have entered on, and where they are leading, in order to reach the conclusion that you are seeking to arrive at.

    Starting with Romans 2:28-29:- 'For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.'

    * The Jew reckoned on his descent from Abraham, his circumcision, his covenant privileges, to enable him to escape the judgement of God: this was a false 'reckoning', a false sense of 'security'. The Apostle Paul shows in Romans 1 & 2, that the Gentile transgressed against the law of conscience and the evidence of creation; whereas the Jew transgressed against the laws of Sinai and the evidence of God's goodness, forbearance and long-suffering. Each were therefore equally guilty before God:- 'there is no difference for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God' (Romans 3:22b-23).

    * God looks on the heart: and Jew and Gentile alike will be judged according to the secrets of their hearts, in that day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ (Romans 2:16).

    * A verse must be looked at and understood by the context in which it comes, mustn't it? Does your understanding of Romans 2:28-29 within the context of Romans one and two, agree with mine?


    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris




     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  10. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'For which cause we faint not;
    but though our outward man perish,
    yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
    For our light affliction,
    which is but for a moment,
    worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
    While we look not at the things which are seen,
    but at the things which are not seen:
    for the things which are seen are temporal;
    but the things which are not seen are eternal.'

    (2 Corinthians 4:16-18)

    Hello @VictoryinJesus,

    This is the next of your references (above):-

    * The resurrection dominates the portion of Scripture that this verse occupies, and it is the human body which is spoken of as perishing, while the spirit within or the 'inward' man, Paul says, is being renewed day by day. Paul was suffering 'affliction' for Christ's sake , but in the light of the weight of glory ahead of him, he was able to endure. Keeping his mind stayed upon those things which are above where Christ sits at God's right hand, for they are eternal, whereas the affliction he was enduring in his body was temporal, it would pass away.

    * The believer has an enduring hope, praise God!

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    true, for he will never leave us nor forsake us. for he is the author and finisher of our faith.

    PICJAG
     
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  12. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them:
    but the word preached did not profit them,
    not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said,
    As I have sworn in My wrath,
    if they shall enter into My rest:
    although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.'

    (Hebrews 4:2-3)

    Hello again, @VictoryinJesus,

    This the third reference:-

    * This is a Hebrew (the Apostle Paul) talking to Hebrew believers: having recounted in chapter three a time in their shared history in which God was grieved with the children of Israel, and swore that they would not enter His rest, because of their unbelief. These Hebrew believers, along with Paul their countryman, could enter into God's rest: the rest of ceasing from seeking to attain unto their own righteousness, by receiving by faith the righteousness which is of God by faith.

    Paul had said in Romans 10:3-4, of their fellow countrymen that they:- 'being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth'. These Hebrew believers to whom Paul wrote were in danger of going back into Judaism, of putting themselves back under law, for they were wavering. So he is using the example of their shared history, to strengthen their resolve to go on into Christ, into spiritual maturity, and leave babyhood behind (Hebrews 6:1+).

    Thank you.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris

     
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  13. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for all of the above responses and time. Typed out a long response but then deleted it. I’m not sure where the breakdown is between where we agree and disagree. Maybe at the ‘outward’ and the ‘inward’ found in Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    If I’m being honest, I would suggest we put too much emphasis on that which is outward and passing away...when that which is outward(death) is to be swallowed up in (victory/Life) by that which is inward(the hidden man). You pointed out the child of God; His Life is hidden with Christ in God. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    If a child's life is Hidden with Christ in God and both are in the child and the child in God, then..."Christ liveth in me." Concerning the outward Jew of the circumcision which is in the flesh(that which is outward) ... Even if it may not be fully seen yet, that which is outward groans to be swallowed by that which is inward so that "death is swallowed" fully in Victory.

    two passages to consider: it may seem as if they do not apply to the topic but are the very reason for the questions I've asked concerning the 'Outward' and 'inward': Romans 8:20-21 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
    There are two there: vanity and hope. BIG question which should be considered is why does the creation groan to be delivered into the glorious liberty of the children of God? What makes the children of God any different from the children of satan? Spirit and flesh. man's works and fruit of the Spirit. What is different about the 'glorious liberty of the children of God' that the creation groans for...does God not show us the beginning and the end in these two verses? that which came first (flesh/vanity) subject to bondage and that which came last: the hope(Christ) 'the glorious liberty of the children of God.' which all the creation groans for. When we argue for the Jew circumcised in the flesh … in the flesh where death 'lies and waits' to be swallowed up by the "the glorious liberty of the children of God." The creations wants it. It is God's will, isn't it? the diminishing of vanity and the renewal(refreshing) of the children of God(the children of promise). consider 'the glorious liberty of the children of God' and how it magnifies Christ.

    Isaiah 25: 7-9 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

    1) God is powerful and could remove the vail which remains to this day over all people and nations in an instant(twinkling of an eye). first He is removing it over His children, yeah? but once the fullness of Christ(that new man) is complete...in an instant the vail could be removed covering all people and nation(s). Or perhaps it is much slower in the 'each in his own order' as in (2 Corinthians 3:15-18). But we must see that which is 'outward" for what it is. (1 Corinthians 15:44-58)

    2)"Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him," only the born again can say this. Notice their 'waiting' is over. (He is expected which did put all things under the Son (1 Corinthians 15:27), which aligns with the last enemy defeated is death.

    "...And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ." (2 Thessalonians 3:5)

    Sorry. still ended up writing a long post. not forcing you into agreement. Respect your input and value it. ... waiting for the manifestations of the Sons of God when that which is inward is revealed, and that which is covered up brought out (then every man will have praise in the Lord) at His appearing, which will be Christ (head and body.)… but that is just an opinion. I'm sure many see it differently.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  14. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Thing is I wouldn't disagree with you...in any that you have posted only maybe at the "I will never leave nor forsake you" Is He not already returned in Spirit? Is He not speaking to the born again from above? The world seeing Him not? don't understand where our disagreement begins, do you see it?
     
  15. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened:
    not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon,
    that mortality might be swallowed up of life.'

    (2 Corinthians 5:4)

    Hello @VictoryinJesus,

    You initially posted the OP (reply:#2) in the thread I had started on 2 Corinthians 5:4,(above). In which I had said that the word, 'unclothed' was used by Paul to describe the state of death, the earthly body being temporary. Paul said that while in this tabernacle, we groan, not that we wish to be without a body, (or unclothed) but that we wanted this mortal body to be swallowed up by life, by resurrection life, when we will have a body fit for eternity. That will be ours in the day of our resurrection from the dead.

    This prompted your entry. So perhaps you can remember what it was about this, which triggered your response, so that we can identify the point of disagreement. If however, you would prefer not to continue down this path, that's fine, but, I am finding it hard to untangle the thoughts you are expressing without knowing the object, or starting point of them.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  16. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @VictoryinJesus,

    Returning the the thread on the unclothed state, I found that I had not transferred the beginning of your argument, which had started with your post in Reply#51 (on Page 3) of The Unclothed State (2 Cor. 5:4).

    “...not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon,
    that mortality might be swallowed up of life’

    (2 Corinthians 5:1)

    - Not fully sure but consider:

    - Death is swallowed up in victory.
    - Mortality is swallowed up of life.
    Isn’t the same: death is swallowed up of the life. Consider the rest in this, the corruptible must put on the incorruptible. The corruptible swallowed up by the incorruptible. Darkness swallowed up by Light. Evil swallowed up by good. The works of man swallowed up by the Fruit of God. Do we see the victory there? The overcoming? This natural and passing away swallowed up by that which does not pass away but remains. The curse swallowed up by the blessing. The poison swallowed up by the pure. Vanity swallowed up in HOPE. It is not an evil thing for this body of His, where death is to be swallowed up of Life in Victory. The creation in the bondage of corruption “groans” to be delivered into freedom and Liberty...the corruption of vanity swallowed up in all that is Christ. Which leads to why then the distaste and refusal of: that which is outward being swallowed up of the hidden man? Line it up with the word how that which is outward perishes (grows weaker) while the hidden man in that which IS incorruptible (1 Peter 3:3-4) is renewed. Who is the victorious? That which is outward and perishes, or that which is refreshed of God in the inward man.

    Romans 2:28-29
    [28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Not going to like it but the outward (flesh)Jew must be swallowed up of the inward (Spiritual)Jew. It is not an evil thing for flesh (the outward)to be swallowed up of the (inward)Spirit man but as it is said “death (mortality) is swallowed up of Life (Immortality), and the curse is swallowed up in blessing of the Son(s) of God(the promise seed)made manifest and revealed to His glory.

    1 Peter 1:23
    [23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Corruptible(Adam)seed swallowed up by the incorruptible seed which is Christ planted “in the children of God”.

    Do we see the victory over death foretold? “To be clothed upon” of Life.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    * Does this help you to see our point of disagreement, @VictoryinJesus. For this was the opening of your argument which led to reply#2 in this thread.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  17. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,
    we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
    For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
    If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
    For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened:
    not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon,
    that mortality might be swallowed up of life.'
    (2 Corinthians 5:1-4)


    'For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
    then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
    O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?'
    (1 Corinthians 15:53-55)

    Hello @VictoryinJesus,

    You say that the two statements, 'that mortality might be swallowed up of life', and 'Death is swallowed up in victory' are not the same thing: yet, 'mortality' means that we are subject to death, doesn't it? When does 'mortality' become 'swallowed up of life'? Is it not at the resurrection from the dead, 'at His coming' (1 Corinthians 15:23)? and when is death swallowed up in victory? Is it not at the resurrection from the dead, 'at His coming'; when our mortal body is changed into that which is immortal?

    * It does not say that death is swallowed up of life, but that the cause of death, which is our mortality, is swallowed up of life.
    * You then refer to 1 Corinthians 15:53-54 and the words, 'For this corruptible must put on incorruption,' - and say, 'the corruptible swallowed up by the incorruptible,' but that is not what is written, is it? Only mortality is said to be 'swallowed up of life'.

    * I can see what you are saying, that the victory that the Lord Jesus Christ has accomplished has delivered us from the power of darkness (Colossians 1:13), that evil is overcome by good (Romans 12:21), that we are, in Him, justified by faith and not by works of the law (Galatians 2:16).

    * Yes I do see the victory in all these things, but I think we must stick to the words that the Holy Spirit uses, for otherwise we could be in danger of misappropriating the Word of God. Which is what I think is happening, when you say:-

    * In 2 Corinthians 5:1-4: the desire is to be 'clothed upon' by resurrection life, and not unclothed (or be found naked); to receive the building of God, the 'house' not made with hands, which is eternal in the heavens. Death is the unclothed state, death is nakedness. There is no life apart from resurrection, and it is Paul's desire that his mortality be 'swallowed up of life' .

    * We are not told that the inner man will swallow up the outer, for that which is spirit is spirit and that which is flesh is flesh. Man is not immortal, but mortal, the believer puts on immortality at the resurrection from the dead.

    * The inner man is renewed day by day, and 1 Peter 3:3-4 does not relate to the corruption of the flesh, but to 'the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit,' which unlike worldly ornament is not subject to corruption or decay.

    With respect, VictoryinJesus
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  18. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree. Went back to read what I posted again and you are right in catching that did not come out right. Yes. We agree here. Really busy today but hope to comment further on the rest. grateful for your patience:)
     
  19. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    man is mortal but we wait for that which is unseen to be made manifest; revealed the Son’s of God. Then does not that which is inward become outward at ‘revealed’ or to be ‘made manifest’?
    1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    Romans 8:18-21
    [18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. [19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. [20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
     
  20. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;
    but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
    The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;
    if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together.
    For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time
    are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
    For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth
    for the manifestation of the sons of God.'

    (Romans 8:15-19)

    Hello @VictoryinJesus,

    Suffering and glory go hand in hand in Scripture, where you see the one, the other is within the context. The Apostle Paul has been talking of the suffering and affliction which the children of God experienced at that time, which was a time of great persecution. Saying that in comparison with the glory which they will receive it was as nothing. As they had experienced His suffering, they will also be glorified together with Him. When will this be? Is it not at His coming? When they will be raised from the dead? When they shall shake off the bondage of corruption, and fully realise the liberty that is theirs in Christ Jesus. Death vanquished and the curse lifted.

    * I believe that it is the manifestation of Christ that the whole of creation is groaning for: and it is then also that the 'sons of God' will be made manifest with Him. That is the glory that will be revealed. When death is seen to be vanquished, the curse of Genesis 3:16-19 lifted; and the advent of the New Heaven and New Earth - 'wherein dwelleth righteousness'.

    'And there shall be no more curse:
    but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;
    (in the new Jerusalem)
    and His servants shall serve Him: ... '
    (Revelation 22:3)

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris



    ,
     
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