2 Corinthians 4, 16-18 'Outward' and 'Inward'

[VictoryinJesus]

Romans 2:28-29
[28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

* We are not told that the inner man will swallow up the outer, for that which is spirit is spirit and that which is flesh is flesh. Man is not immortal, but mortal, the believer puts on immortality at the resurrection from the dead.

No we are not told the inward will swallow that which is outward...but then you mentioned that which is mortal must be changed into the immortal. This ‘mortal’ is the outward, is it not? And it too(the outward) must put on the inward. 1 Corinthians 15:54
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Death is in that which is outward. The new ‘hidden’ man of the heart is a new creature, born of God. He is within. The new creature(creation). Really, I do not believe or see that you and I disagree on all the victory’s listed over death except for when we draw near unto the Jew who is one outward and the Jew who is One inwardly. Then, if I’m being honest; the ‘outward’ Jew and ‘inward’ Jew are totally ignored as that outward Jew is going to be something he is not when scripture says: if he no longer remains in unbelief.

You asked what started this thought entered into in the beginning and it was that: that Jew which is outward MUST put on that Jew which is inward. I’ll list them again but before doing so ...the verse you quoted about the meek spirit.
(1 Peter 3:3-4)In that same verse the word tells us that which is “incorruptible” is ALREADY within...and that which is “corruptible” remains in the outward...see it? The “corruptible” must put on that inward “incorruptible” which God has already said is within. then the saying is fulfilled “death is swallowed in Victory”. The outward man (death) is swallowed in (victory) of that inward man in Christ. How else to say it but that the “corruptible” which is outward is swallowed by the “incorruptible” which is within? Don’t misunderstand as I’m not suggesting corruption inherits but is instead overcome and defeated by that which is born of God within. As “death” does not inherit “victory” but is instead swallowed in Victory. We look for new bodies...not no body. Death is in the body...it must be changed(not denying that).

‘Outward’ and ‘inward’
Death swallowed in victory.
Mortality swallowed in immortality.
corruptible swallowed in the incorruptible.
Darkness swallowed in Light.
Evil swallowed in good.
The works of man swallowed in the Fruit of God.
This natural and passing away swallowed in that which does not pass away but remains.
The curse swallowed in the blessing. The poison swallowed in the pure tongue.
Vanity swallowed in HOPE.
the bondage of corruption (vanity) swallowed in the freedom(liberty) which is Christ.

But then we which or fall away at: the religious man is swallowed by “My Grace is sufficient for thee.”

Freedom from all vain works of man of being good or seen at “If is finished.”

So what about the outward Jew circumcised in the outward flesh?(religion) And the inward Jew circumcised in the inner heart of God?(liberty and set free from the bondage of corruption)in Christ? If we go back to the very beginning we see the whole creation is in the bondage of vanity. Religion is vain. Look at all the outward adornments and “beauty” in the OT. All those lavished adornments become inward adornments. From vanity TO Hope. Last couple of days “mammon is the root of all evil” has been on my mind. Is it a far stretch to say that which outward and vain (religion)must be swallowed by that which is inward and see free in Christ from vanity: He who “overcomes” what? The world.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

When they shall shake off the bondage of corruption, and fully realise the liberty that is theirs in Christ Jesus.

“When they shake off the bondage of corruption, and fully realize the liberty that is theirs in Christ Jesus.”

Exactly.

Suffering and glory go hand in hand in Scripture, where you see the one, the other is within the context. The Apostle Paul has been talking of the suffering and affliction which the children of God experienced at that time, which was a time of great persecution. Saying that in comparison with the glory which they will receive it was as nothing.

Hebrews 5:8-9
[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; [9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


Everything He displayed was freedom from the bondage of corruption and vanity. He is the Hope. John 10:15
[15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Has nothing to do with conversation(which it does have to do with suffering)...just blows my mind how He knew Peter wasn’t ready to give all.
John 13:37
[37] Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

John 13:38
[38] Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

 

[charity]

Response to replies #21 and #22 - VictoryinJesus

Hi @VictoryinJesus,

I hope you don't mind, but before answering your two last entries, I feel it is necessary to clarify what Scripture says concerning the inner man and outer man, for I feel that we are talking at cross purposes.

* The first thing about both the Old Nature and the New Nature is that neither can be changed. 'That which is born of the flesh is flesh', and remains flesh: and 'That which is born of the Spirit is spirit', and remains spirit (John 3:6). The 'end' of The Old Nature is death (1 Corinthians 15:22): and the 'end' of the New Nature is resurrection (Romans 8:11).

* The other names given to the Old Nature are:-
- The Flesh: - (John 3:6)
- The Natural Man: - (1 Corinthians 2:14)
- The Old Man: - (Ephesians 4:22)
- The Outward Man: - (2 Corinthians 4:16)
- The Heart:- (Jeremiah 17:9: Matthew 15:19)
- The Carnal mind: - (Romans 8:6-7)
- Sin - (the root): - (Romans 5:12 - 8:39)

* The names for the New Nature:-
- The Spirit: - (John 3:6)
- Divine Nature: - (2 Peter 1:4)
- The New Man: - (Ephesians 4:24; Colossians 3:10)
- The Inward man: - (Romans 7:22; 2 Corinthians 4:16; Ephesians 3:16)
- The Mind: - (Romans 7:23,25)
- Christ-spirit (a sonship spirit): - (Romans 8:9)
- Divine-spirit: - (Romans 8:9,14)

* Each of these names have much to teach us about the Old and New Natures, and giving one or two references is far from enough to do justice to either. Each needs to be considered separately in order to fully understand what each has to tell us about both the nature we were born with, and that which is from above, don't they?

* We have been considering 'the inward man' and 'the outward man', 2 Corinthians 4:16, tells us that 'the outward man' is that which perishes day by day. Whereas, 'the inward man', in contrast with 'the outward man', is renewed day by day, in Ephesians 3:16 it is called, 'the inner man', which instead of perishing, is constantly being nourished and replenished day by day with grace and strength by the Holy Spirit; so that Christ thus dwells in the heart by faith (Eph. 3:16). The 'inward man'' delights in the law of God' (Rom. 7:22), whereas 'the outer man'' is not subject to the law of God' (Romans 8:7).

* I am going to have to think about your entries #21 & #22, before responding, VictoryinJesus, so forgive me if I don't answer straight away.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Response to replies #21 and #22 - VictoryinJesus

Hi @VictoryinJesus,

I hope you don't mind, but before answering your two last entries, I feel it is necessary to clarify what Scripture says concerning the inner man and outer man, for I feel that we are talking at cross purposes.

* The first thing about both the Old Nature and the New Nature is that neither can be changed. 'That which is born of the flesh is flesh', and remains flesh: and 'That which is born of the Spirit is spirit', and remains spirit (John 3:6). The 'end' of The Old Nature is death (1 Corinthians 15:22): and the 'end' of the New Nature is resurrection (Romans 8:11).

* The other names given to the Old Nature are:-
- The Flesh: - (John 3:6)
- The Natural Man: - (1 Corinthians 2:14)
- The Old Man: - (Ephesians 4:22)
- The Outward Man: - (2 Corinthians 4:16)
- The Heart:- (Jeremiah 17:9: Matthew 15:19)
- The Carnal mind: - (Romans 8:6-7)
- Sin - (the root): - (Romans 5:12 - 8:39)

* The names for the New Nature:-
- The Spirit: - (John 3:6)
- Divine Nature: - (2 Peter 1:4)
- The New Man: - (Ephesians 4:24; Colossians 3:10)
- The Inward man: - (Romans 7:22; 2 Corinthians 4:16; Ephesians 3:16)
- The Mind: - (Romans 7:23,25)
- Christ-spirit (a sonship spirit): - (Romans 8:9)
- Divine-spirit: - (Romans 8:9,14)

* Each of these names have much to teach us about the Old and New Natures, and giving one or two references is far from enough to do justice to either. Each needs to be considered separately in order to fully understand what each has to tell us about both the nature we were born with, and that which is from above, don't they?

* We have been considering 'the inward man' and 'the outward man', 2 Corinthians 4:16, tells us that 'the outward man' is that which perishes day by day. Whereas, 'the inward man', in contrast with 'the outward man', is renewed day by day, in Ephesians 3:16 it is called, 'the inner man', which instead of perishing, is constantly being nourished and replenished day by day with grace and strength by the Holy Spirit; so that Christ thus dwells in the heart by faith (Eph. 3:16). The 'inward man'' delights in the law of God' (Rom. 7:22), whereas 'the outer man'' is not subject to the law of God' (Romans 8:7).

* Spirit cannot change into flesh, and flesh cannot change into spirit: so how does that affect your thinking regarding the Jew that is one outwardly that you refer to, VictoryinJesus? (Romans 2:17-29)

* I am going to have to think about your entries #21 & #22, before responding, VictoryinJesus, so forgive me if I don't answer straight away.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ephesians 5:29-30
[29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

I’m sorry. It is my fault. The communication barrier is on my end. I’m not saying the outward Jew; circumcised in the flesh bears Spirit. But the new creature does? of His flesh and bone. Then it is His flesh, upon His seed.(the hidden man).

1 Corinthians 15:35-38 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? [36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: [37] And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain : [38] But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

His seed remains within. “to every seed his own body.” What is His body if not a Spiritual body.(Yet it is His flesh) 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


It is okay if you do not want to go any further. Not sure it is profitable. Maybe if He brings either of us back to it later with more clarity.

 

[charity]

Hello VictoryinJesus,

We agree that the two natures abide in the child of God. Yes? The one ending in death, the other attaining unto the resurrection of the dead; and being clothed upon by life, by receiving a resurrection body, or a spiritual body; until which time being hid with Christ in God.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hello VictoryinJesus,

We agree that the two natures abide in the child of God. Yes? The one ending in death, the other attaining unto the resurrection of the dead; and being clothed upon by life, by receiving a resurrection body, or a spiritual body; until which time being hid with Christ in God.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes agree.

 

[Taken]

Charity ~
In brief...

OT men ~
God called to them,
Gave them directions.
They agreed to do as they were told.
Circumcision of the foreskin was an "outward" sign, of their agreement to obey.
Many failed to continue obedience.
"Outward" circumcision, became corrupted.

NT men ~
In the last days,
God called to them,
Through His Word, manifested in the FLesh.
Gave them directions,
Hear, Believe, Follow, Continue hearing,
A Promise for those who Continue,
THE PROMISE...
Giving Faith by measures of Increase to those who Continue hearing, following, believing.
The Increase, prepares the man to Commit to the Lord.
A man WHO Commits, BY Confession (from the thoughts of his Heart) Receives the Realization of the Offered PROMISE...

THE PROMISE...
...of Forgiveness Sin (Against God)
...of Spiritual death (crucified with Christ)
.....body washed (in Jesus' blood)
.....body sanctified (made righteous)
.....heart circumcised (natural truth cut off
............Gods truth imparted)
.....body justified (prepared to be resurrected
.....body KEPT (with Christ)
...of Salvation of the soul (Restoration)
...of Quickening of the spirit (Seed of God)
...of the indwelling Spirit of God (power/light)

THAT ^ is a ONCE and PERMANENT fulfillment of the Promise affecting THE MAN, "Spiritually," INSIDE and OUTSIDE.

THAT ^ "MAKES" the man....
1) a son of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, and HEIR, to the "Land" Promised Abraham and his heirs.
2) a son of God, which means the man becomes the INHERITANCE of God.
3) a man who is ENTITLED to be FOREVER ALIVE and OCCUPY thee Lord Gods Kingdom.

MEANTIME ~ A man WHO has BEEN "MADE" those things....
AND
Continues in his "FLESH LIFE"...

That man Still is living in a natural corrupt world....And his direction is to...
SERVE God, in a manner God directs;
Which means Speak Gods Word, to those WILLING to hear.
WHICH
Effectively Glorifies God.
Speak what Gods says, rather than what a man thinks Gods should have said.
A man who accomplishes that;
Will be SEEN, as having the REFLECTION of Gods LIGHT, on the OUTSIDE of the man.
The "REFLECTION" of Gods Light upon men, can be "observed", by a mans spreading the word of God, by observation of the mans works, charity, helping, by the man following Gods precepts (which is behaviors of men between men), etc.
And the man giving credit to thee Lord God...
And THAT mankind will be accounted BY GOD, as the man having Glorified Gods great Name.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[charity]

Charity ~
In brief...

OT men ~
God called to them,
Gave them directions.
They agreed to do as they were told.
Circumcision of the foreskin was an "outward" sign, of their agreement to obey.
Many failed to continue obedience.
"Outward" circumcision, became corrupted.

NT men ~
In the last days,
God called to them,
Through His Word, manifested in the FLesh.
Gave them directions,
Hear, Believe, Follow, Continue hearing,
A Promise for those who Continue,
THE PROMISE...
Giving Faith by measures of Increase to those who Continue hearing, following, believing.
The Increase, prepares the man to Commit to the Lord.
A man WHO Commits, BY Confession (from the thoughts of his Heart) Receives the Realization of the Offered PROMISE...

THE PROMISE...
...of Forgiveness Sin (Against God)
...of Spiritual death (crucified with Christ)
.....body washed (in Jesus' blood)
.....body sanctified (made righteous)
.....heart circumcised (natural truth cut off
............Gods truth imparted)
.....body justified (prepared to be resurrected
.....body KEPT (with Christ)
...of Salvation of the soul (Restoration)
...of Quickening of the spirit (Seed of God)
...of the indwelling Spirit of God (power/light)

THAT ^ is a ONCE and PERMANENT fulfillment of the Promise affecting THE MAN, "Spiritually," INSIDE and OUTSIDE.

THAT ^ "MAKES" the man....
1) a son of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, and HEIR, to the "Land" Promised Abraham and his heirs.
2) a son of God, which means the man becomes the INHERITANCE of God.
3) a man who is ENTITLED to be FOREVER ALIVE and OCCUPY thee Lord Gods Kingdom.

MEANTIME ~ A man WHO has BEEN "MADE" those things....
AND
Continues in his "FLESH LIFE"...

That man Still is living in a natural corrupt world....And his direction is to...
SERVE God, in a manner God directs;
Which means Speak Gods Word, to those WILLING to hear.
WHICH
Effectively Glorifies God.
Speak what Gods says, rather than what a man thinks Gods should have said.
A man who accomplishes that;
Will be SEEN, as having the REFLECTION of Gods LIGHT, on the OUTSIDE of the man.
The "REFLECTION" of Gods Light upon men, can be "observed", by a mans spreading the word of God, by observation of the mans works, charity, helping, by the man following Gods precepts (which is behaviors of men between men), etc.
And the man giving credit to thee Lord God...
And THAT mankind will be accounted BY GOD, as the man having Glorified Gods great Name.

Glory to God,
Taken

Hello @Taken,

Thank you for expressing your understanding of these things. Forgive me for not answering until now. I will not comment on what you have said, for it is a reflection of what you have come to believe: I agree with some things, but not with all that you have said; but God is working in each one of us to will and to do of His good pleasure. May His perfect will be done in each one of us for His Name and glory's sake, that His Name be glorified.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Taken]

Hello @Taken,

Thank you for expressing your understanding of these things. Forgive me for not answering until now. I will not comment on what you have said, for it is a reflection of what you have come to believe: I agree with some things, but not with all that you have said; but God is working in each one of us to will and to do of His good pleasure. May His perfect will be done in each one of us for His Name and glory's sake, that His Name be glorified.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi C ~

U R Welcome, and nice to hear from you.
Would be interested if time permits you, to share what you disagree with.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[charity]

Hi C ~

U R Welcome, and nice to hear from you.
Would be interested if time permits you, to share what you disagree with.

Glory to God,
Taken

Hello @Taken,
,
Thank you for your response. I will look at what you have said offline, consider how to respond, and come back to you, if God allow.

Thanks again,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Charity ~
In brief...

OT men ~
God called to them,
Gave them directions.
They agreed to do as they were told.
Circumcision of the foreskin was an "outward" sign, of their agreement to obey.
Many failed to continue obedience.
"Outward" circumcision, became corrupted.

NT men ~
In the last days,
God called to them,
Through His Word, manifested in the FLesh.
Gave them directions,
Hear, Believe, Follow, Continue hearing,
A Promise for those who Continue,
THE PROMISE...
Giving Faith by measures of Increase to those who Continue hearing, following, believing.
The Increase, prepares the man to Commit to the Lord.
A man WHO Commits, BY Confession (from the thoughts of his Heart) Receives the Realization of the Offered PROMISE...

THE PROMISE...
...of Forgiveness Sin (Against God)
...of Spiritual death (crucified with Christ)
.....body washed (in Jesus' blood)
.....body sanctified (made righteous)
.....heart circumcised (natural truth cut off
............Gods truth imparted)
.....body justified (prepared to be resurrected
.....body KEPT (with Christ)
...of Salvation of the soul (Restoration)
...of Quickening of the spirit (Seed of God)
...of the indwelling Spirit of God (power/light)

THAT ^ is a ONCE and PERMANENT fulfillment of the Promise affecting THE MAN, "Spiritually," INSIDE and OUTSIDE.

THAT ^ "MAKES" the man....
1) a son of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, and HEIR, to the "Land" Promised Abraham and his heirs.
2) a son of God, which means the man becomes the INHERITANCE of God.
3) a man who is ENTITLED to be FOREVER ALIVE and OCCUPY thee Lord Gods Kingdom.

MEANTIME ~ A man WHO has BEEN "MADE" those things....
AND
Continues in his "FLESH LIFE"...

That man Still is living in a natural corrupt world....And his direction is to...
SERVE God, in a manner God directs;
Which means Speak Gods Word, to those WILLING to hear.
WHICH
Effectively Glorifies God.
Speak what Gods says, rather than what a man thinks Gods should have said.
A man who accomplishes that;
Will be SEEN, as having the REFLECTION of Gods LIGHT, on the OUTSIDE of the man.
The "REFLECTION" of Gods Light upon men, can be "observed", by a mans spreading the word of God, by observation of the mans works, charity, helping, by the man following Gods precepts (which is behaviors of men between men), etc.
And the man giving credit to thee Lord God...
And THAT mankind will be accounted BY GOD, as the man having Glorified Gods great Name.

Glory to God,
Taken

Taken:- Would you be interested if time permits you, to share what you disagree with?

Hello @Taken,

I have tried, and failed miserably to do so. You express yourself in a way which is so unlike my own, that I can't get to grips with it sufficiently to make a proper response.

I am sorry.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Taken]

Hello @Taken,

I have tried, and failed miserably to do so. You express yourself in a way which is so unlike my own, that I can't get to grips with it sufficiently to make a proper response.

I am sorry.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ok, no issue. Have a blessed day.

Glory to God,
Taken