21st Century Christianity - A brief manifesto for our age.

[2ndRateMind]

You have no verses, no bible, no scriptures, to prove anything, fella.
You are 100% led by your God, who is your opinion.

What I have is 2000 years of scientific, social, philosophical and theological development since Christ, not least, because of Christ, and considerably more than that since the Bronze Age Jews began writing the OT. It would be foolish to ignore all that, out of preference for a blind belief in a single, but uncoordinated and disparate and sometimes even contradictory, set of scriptures.

As for my God being my opinion, well, if only. I wouldn't have half so much reading to do, and, my conscience would doubtless allow me to allow you to go to Hell in your own sweet way, without even trying to intervene. And furthermore, I wouldn't have had anything like such a tough time as He gave me when I did, eventually and quite accidentally, become a born again Christian, and discovered repentence and atonement was part of the deal. But, in the fullness of time, I emerged from it all, somewhat chastened, but reasonably intact and perhaps even a little improved by the experience.

Now, I must bid you good night, and wish you delightful dreams. I have some Nietzsche to read.

May God bless you and those you love. 2RM.

 

[GEN2REV]

On another forum, I lamented that Christianity was being left behind, and as it is currently consituted, stood to collapse into irrelevance and obscurity, with none but a few dinosaur conservatives left muttering to each other in corners about how evil the world is. So, I proclaimed, the 21st century religion needs a 21st century approach. I was duly asked, what would a 21st century Christianity look like?

Here is my answer:

One change I would like to see is the realisation by the church authorities that the laity, at least in the developed world, are no longer the ignorant peasants and serfs the religion was (wrongly) enlisted to control in the dark and middle ages. A recognition, maybe, that we are endowed with intellects, discriminatory powers and critical faculties because God intends for us to use them, even (perhaps especially) on scripture.

It might help if those same authorities also realised that all the various Christian schisms, denominations, sects and cults are counter-productive to spreading the Gospel in it's purest form, and sought to compromise on their doctrine and dogma with a view to burying their differences for good. How can we pretend to know truth if we cannot even agree among ourselves what it is?

Another is the necessary social progress to put women on an equal footing with men, and see them better represented in leadership roles throughout the church. An end to the institutional discrimination against homosexuals would also be good. The religion should be leading this progressive movement, not being reluctantly dragged, kicking and screaming all the way, by secular society, into the modern age.

I would like to see the religion more active around what seem to me to be the two major global issues facing humanity in our time: how to eradicate absolute poverty while still remaining comfortably within the Earth's ecological carrying capacity.

I would like to see a more inclusive religion, that encompasses the whole of humanity within it's remit, even those of other faiths and none. I would like to see it end it's insistence, for example, that one has to be a Christian to receive heavenly reward. I really think we have to decide whether we mean 'the family of man' to be a real objective to strive for, or just a trite, complacent, inaccurate description of an exclusive club of people 'who think like me'. In other words, we have to decide whether we think God, as Jesus did, to be the loving Father of all mankind, or just Christians, the born again, the elect, or some other sub group of the faith.

Finally, I would like to see the development and promotion of a philosopically rigorous, (but upgradeable in the light of new facts and discoveries and developments), world view, rather than the hotchpotch mélange of obsolete ideas and ideologies we are currently presented with.

Doubtless you can think of other improvements the religion could make. You are welcome to suggest them.

Best wishes, 2RM.

How is this different from making Christianity exactly like the modern world?

With all its progressive intentions and Godless proclivities.

Something I think most Christians today don't realize is that old school, original, authentic, Christianity is not inclusive. Neither is God or the Bible. They are both very exclusive. That is actually the point.

This world belongs to the enemy right now and all the current trends, of everything, are of the devil.

God wants nothing to do with any of that, and His Word reflects that sentiment emphatically.

Unfortunately, as long as the world and mankind continue to progress (which really means becoming more and more like the devil), True Biblical Christianity will become less and less popular and less accepted.

There will never come a time before Christ returns where Christianity will become very 'IN' and popular to the masses unless the very definition of Christianity moves further and further from what it originally was.

And that is exactly where we are today. The devil hijacks and counterfeits everything; and modern Christianity is so counterfeit today that it is unrecognizable to those who understand what the Bible actually teaches.

If you want to make the church exactly like the world, why not just do away with the church? Sincere question.

What would be the point?

 

[2ndRateMind]

If you want to make the church exactly like the world, why not just do away with the church? Sincere question.

What would be the point?

The church is for people who know Jesus, and try to keep His great commandments because they love Him: namely, to love God, and love each other. And, I might add, who love God's world, also. I don't see any of that ever changing, and would not want it to. But if you want to encourage people to do the good thing, the right thing, the ethical thing, you have to start from where they are, not where you are. And that involves not alienating them immediately with your cherished 'exclusivity'. We are not talking membership of a private golf club here, but about our Father's Church, and whether it is fit for purpose in our time. Because, to be honest, I really don't think it is.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Nancy]

How is this different from making Christianity exactly like the modern world?

With all its progressive intentions and Godless proclivities.

Something I think most Christians today don't realize is that old school, original, authentic, Christianity is not inclusive. Neither is God or the Bible. They are both very exclusive. That is actually the point.

This world belongs to the enemy right now and all the current trends, of everything, are of the devil.

God wants nothing to do with any of that, and His Word reflects that sentiment emphatically.

Unfortunately, as long as the world and mankind continue to progress (which really means becoming more and more like the devil), True Biblical Christianity will become less and less popular and less accepted.

There will never come a time before Christ returns where Christianity will become very 'IN' and popular to the masses unless the very definition of Christianity moves further and further from what it originally was.

And that is exactly where we are today. The devil hijacks and counterfeits everything; and modern Christianity is so counterfeit today that it is unrecognizable to those who understand what the Bible actually teaches.

If you want to make the church exactly like the world, why not just do away with the church? Sincere question.

What would be the point?

VERY few will be saved says the bible. And are not honest Christians becoming more and more rare?
It is true also that the Word of God tells us that we have no business judging "those without" yet, we ARE to judge and correct "in love", those who claim Christ as savior yet live worldly.
Good post!

 

[dev553344]

On another forum, I lamented that Christianity was being left behind, and as it is currently consituted, stood to collapse into irrelevance and obscurity, with none but a few dinosaur conservatives left muttering to each other in corners about how evil the world is. So, I proclaimed, the 21st century religion needs a 21st century approach. I was duly asked, what would a 21st century Christianity look like?

Here is my answer:

One change I would like to see is the realisation by the church authorities that the laity, at least in the developed world, are no longer the ignorant peasants and serfs the religion was (wrongly) enlisted to control in the dark and middle ages. A recognition, maybe, that we are endowed with intellects, discriminatory powers and critical faculties because God intends for us to use them, even (perhaps especially) on scripture.

It might help if those same authorities also realised that all the various Christian schisms, denominations, sects and cults are counter-productive to spreading the Gospel in it's purest form, and sought to compromise on their doctrine and dogma with a view to burying their differences for good. How can we pretend to know truth if we cannot even agree among ourselves what it is?

Another is the necessary social progress to put women on an equal footing with men, and see them better represented in leadership roles throughout the church. An end to the institutional discrimination against homosexuals would also be good. The religion should be leading this progressive movement, not being reluctantly dragged, kicking and screaming all the way, by secular society, into the modern age.

I would like to see the religion more active around what seem to me to be the two major global issues facing humanity in our time: how to eradicate absolute poverty while still remaining comfortably within the Earth's ecological carrying capacity.

I would like to see a more inclusive religion, that encompasses the whole of humanity within it's remit, even those of other faiths and none. I would like to see it end it's insistence, for example, that one has to be a Christian to receive heavenly reward. I really think we have to decide whether we mean 'the family of man' to be a real objective to strive for, or just a trite, complacent, inaccurate description of an exclusive club of people 'who think like me'. In other words, we have to decide whether we think God, as Jesus did, to be the loving Father of all mankind, or just Christians, the born again, the elect, or some other sub group of the faith.

Finally, I would like to see the development and promotion of a philosopically rigorous, (but upgradeable in the light of new facts and discoveries and developments), world view, rather than the hotchpotch mélange of obsolete ideas and ideologies we are currently presented with.

Doubtless you can think of other improvements the religion could make. You are welcome to suggest them.

Best wishes, 2RM.

It's the internet. It's comprised of 90% a-typical Christians. Typical Christians stay off the internet I think and just attend church services and live out their lives without such things. 96% of Christians celebrate Christmas, look how many on the internet object to that idea. Wow!

 

[GEN2REV]

The church is for people who know Jesus, and try to keep His great commandments because they love Him: namely, to love God, and love each other. And, I might add, who love God's world, also. I don't see any of that ever changing, and would not want it to. But if you want to encourage people to do the good thing, the right thing, the ethical thing, you have to start from where they are, not where you are. And that involves not alienating them immediately with your cherished 'exclusivity'. We are not talking membership of a private golf club here, but about our Father's Church, and whether it is fit for purpose in our time. Because, to be honest, I really don't think it is.

Best wishes, 2RM.

I know you're not brand new here, and I have to assume you're not a brand new Christian, but your knowledge of the Bible seems to be lacking.

Those who love the world, don't know jack about God. And they most certainly don't know Jesus.
1 John 2:15

Yes, I do cherish the exclusive nature of the True Christian Faith because I hate sin and the lifestyle of habitual sinners. Just exactly like my Holy Father does. News flash for ya: God HATES sinners.

Those who knowingly live in habitual sin are despised by God. They represent everything that He is not. They are following the ways of His arch nemesis; dishonoring and disrespecting God every single day of their lives.

The ungodly and sinners shall not be found among the righteous.
Psalms 5:5-6
Ungodly sinners accept and encourage sinful lifestyles, but God abhors them for it.
Psalms 10:3
Sinners don't seek after God, they're not even capable of it. God never enters their darkened mind.
Psalms 10:4
God loves those who seek after righteousness and hates wicked sinners.
Psalms 11:5-7
God has plans for sinners, especially those who call themselves Christians.
Amos 9:10

But yeah, let's bring all pagan idolatrous religions together and unite them with Christianity to disgrace God as one; and let's invite every abominable sinner to the party.

 

[2ndRateMind]

I know you're not brand new here, and I have to assume you're not a brand new Christian,
... I hate sin and the lifestyle of habitual sinners. Just exactly like my Holy Father does. News flash for ya: God HATES sinners.

Actually, I have to correct you on this. God loves us all, whatever our faith, race, nationality, sex, gender or sexuality, for we are all His children. And we are all sinners (even you, my friend). It's just that some of us sin worse than others, and they will get a particularly tough time when, come Judgement Day, God will show us the truth about ourselves, and, stripped of all comfortable illusion, we will all be called on to repent and atone. Some, through self-righteous pride, will be quite unable to do that. Just make sure you are not one of them. God wants you in eternal communion with Him, not lost to Him because of some foolish prejudice or other.

It's OK to hate sin. I do too, though we appear to have quite different ideas around what sin actually is, and why it is sin. It's just not OK to hate sinners. Jesus never did; in fact, He loved us all so much, He gave up His life for us. Would you do that, for a bunch of sinners?

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

Those who love the world, don't know jack about God. And they most certainly don't know Jesus.

In the sense that the world is God's providence for our sustenance and health and enjoyment, those who do not love His world really are biting the hand that feeds them. And we can, I contend, learn a lot about God through the medium of His world. It really is an awesome creation. But you have to be prepared to put the Bible down, every so often, and study a little science, occasionally.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

Do you find God giving the land of Israel, and surrounding, to anyone else,?

How about the people who lived there before the Jews first arrived, and subsequently, before the State of Israel was founded, after the Second World War? There don't seem to be any title deeds, duly signed by God, only the OT, which you won't or can't corroborate. And the OT, I might remind you again, was written by Jews, and so is not exactly an impartial document about the matter.

Now, don't lose all perspective and start thinking I am out to get at Jews because I am anti-semitic, or something. I concede willingly that down the course of history, Jews have had an extremely tough time. And that's an utter disgrace. Were you a Muslim, I would have some equally tough questions to ask and points to make. As I do of Christians. But the truth is, I try to be scrupulously fair to all parties concerned, and while you continue to deny the Palestinians their properties and lands, restrict their ordinary human rights and freedoms, police them with your military equipped with live ammunition, and build walls around the West Bank and Gaza Strip with a view to making ghettos of them, I'm afraid I have to say that I am not wholly sympathetic to your cause.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[quietthinker]

On another forum, I lamented that Christianity was being left behind, and as it is currently consituted, stood to collapse into irrelevance and obscurity, with none but a few dinosaur conservatives left muttering to each other in corners about how evil the world is. So, I proclaimed, the 21st century religion needs a 21st century approach. I was duly asked, what would a 21st century Christianity look like?

Here is my answer:

One change I would like to see is the realisation by the church authorities that the laity, at least in the developed world, are no longer the ignorant peasants and serfs the religion was (wrongly) enlisted to control in the dark and middle ages. A recognition, maybe, that we are endowed with intellects, discriminatory powers and critical faculties because God intends for us to use them, even (perhaps especially) on scripture.

It might help if those same authorities also realised that all the various Christian schisms, denominations, sects and cults are counter-productive to spreading the Gospel in it's purest form, and sought to compromise on their doctrine and dogma with a view to burying their differences for good. How can we pretend to know truth if we cannot even agree among ourselves what it is?

Another is the necessary social progress to put women on an equal footing with men, and see them better represented in leadership roles throughout the church. An end to the institutional discrimination against homosexuals would also be good. The religion should be leading this progressive movement, not being reluctantly dragged, kicking and screaming all the way, by secular society, into the modern age.

I would like to see the religion more active around what seem to me to be the two major global issues facing humanity in our time: how to eradicate absolute poverty while still remaining comfortably within the Earth's ecological carrying capacity.

I would like to see a more inclusive religion, that encompasses the whole of humanity within it's remit, even those of other faiths and none. I would like to see it end it's insistence, for example, that one has to be a Christian to receive heavenly reward. I really think we have to decide whether we mean 'the family of man' to be a real objective to strive for, or just a trite, complacent, inaccurate description of an exclusive club of people 'who think like me'. In other words, we have to decide whether we think God, as Jesus did, to be the loving Father of all mankind, or just Christians, the born again, the elect, or some other sub group of the faith.

Finally, I would like to see the development and promotion of a philosopically rigorous, (but upgradeable in the light of new facts and discoveries and developments), world view, rather than the hotchpotch mélange of obsolete ideas and ideologies we are currently presented with.

Doubtless you can think of other improvements the religion could make. You are welcome to suggest them.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Your wish might be realised sooner than you imagine, however I would add, it will result in oppression for any and all who choose differently

 

[2ndRateMind]

Your wish might be realised sooner than you imagine, however I would add, it will result in oppression for any and all who choose differently

I do hope not. God's Kingdom of Heaven on Earth must be entirely voluntary, or it is not God's and it is not Heaven. Rather, I hope we shall learn to use love to encourage, motivate and support, and reason to explain and persuade. If people do not want to love, and/or can't or won't reason, well, that is their choice, and there is nothing that can be done for them. But there is no cause to oppress anyone.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

VERY few will be saved says the bible. And are not honest Christians becoming more and more rare?
It is true also that the Word of God tells us that we have no business judging "those without" yet, we ARE to judge and correct "in love", those who claim Christ as savior yet live worldly.
Good post!

I agree with much of the sentiment you express here. However, coming from an inhabitant of the richest nation on earth, allegedly Christian, with 22 million millionaires, when one third of the world's population lives on $2 per day or less, I wonder if you have quite thought through what Jesus' two great commandments, to 'Love God', and 'Love each other', actually entail. These poor people can barely afford to eat, sometimes, not even that, let alone provide their families with healthcare and educate their children, and so break out of the cycle of poverty that traps them. Seems to me many American Christians are quick to claim Christ, and despise God's world, just not so quick to quit living wordly themselves, and send most of their money where it is more needed.

For the first time in history, we have the resources, spent wisely, to eradicate absolute poverty world-wide, for good. We just all need to choose to do that.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[GEN2REV]

Actually, I have to correct you on this. God loves us all, whatever our faith, race, nationality, sex, gender or sexuality, for we are all His children. And we are all sinners (even you, my friend).

I don't know what cereal box you read that off of, but it's not in the Bible.

Sinners, as the Bible defines, are those who live in daily habitual sin; in effect separated from God.

True Christians are to have nothing to do with those people.
Jeremiah 51:45
Ezekiel 22:26
2 Corinthians 6:17
James 1:27
Revelation 18:4

God wants you in eternal communion with Him, not lost to Him because of some foolish prejudice or other.

I'm not sure you've ever even caught sight of a Bible. See above verses.

This pet religion you'd like to create already exists.

It's called satanism.

There ya go. They've already done all the groundwork for you.

... we appear to have quite different ideas around what sin actually is, and why it is sin. It's just not OK to hate sinners. Jesus never did;

My idea is God's idea about sin. 1 John 3:4

And God hates sinners; ... and Jesus IS God.

Guessing that's news to you as well.

He loved us all so much, He gave up His life for us.

Jesus gave His life for those that God gave Him. Not for the children of the devil that dishonor His Truth every single day just as you are doing right now.

Read up on the Wheat and the Tares and what God will gladly do to the Tares in the end. Matthew 13:38

Not a bad idea to read about what God will do to Christians who don't adhere to His teachings as well.
John 15:2
John 15:6

If you want to speak for God Almighty, you might want to purchase a good Bible.

 

[Behold]

Surely even you can see that is a viciously circular argument?

Jesus is the WORD of God, and the Holy Bible is the word of God.

You dont realize that God esteems and exalts His Word, above His own name. Psalms 138:2
This is both the WORD and the word.

See.....ITs the preaching of the word, which are the holy scriptures, that allow a person to hear the truth... John 14:6 so that by this hearing of the word of God, "faith comes by hearing" the word".

The Gospel itself is "word", and its the preaching of the word, specific to the Cross of Christ that God uses to bring to a person the Gift of Salvation...2 Corinthians 5:19 so that that might BELIEVE and be born again.

 

[Behold]

What I have is 2000 years of scientific, social, philosophical and theological development since Christ,

That's all meaningless.
That's just secularism and moral relativism.

TRUTH is different, as this is Jesus Himself. John 14:6

 

[GEN2REV]

... put the Bible down, every so often ...

And there it is.

You should start each and every post with that as your calling card.

THAT is what you represent.

 

[Behold]

And that involves not alienating them immediately with your cherished 'exclusivity'..

You obviously feel very alienated from God's Love, as you have no posts that rejoice in Christianity.
You're posts concluded that the Love of God, the Church of God, is a wall against whatever it is that you seem to think is more important.
You talk about helping others.......but you dont understand that the greatest help you can give them, is not food, shelter, and health care.
But rather its to lead them to eternal life, who is Jesus The Christ, as He is the greatest gift you can give to anyone.

See, all your philosophical meanderings and opinions are based on a temporary situation, and that is "human existence" on earth.
This is the small aspect, the temporary situation.....so, to resolve that so that a person has some comfort on earth, but then dies and is excluded from Heaven......
See that?
You are majoring in the minors and pursing the next best thing, instead of seeing the long vision and the main thing.

 

[Enoch111]

So, I proclaimed, the 21st century religion needs a 21st century approach.

Some of your ideas are valid, but others are not. For example, the division between clergy and laity should not exist, neither should there be any denominations. Is this going to change? No. And women cannot be given authority over men in the home or in the church because God says so. As to homosexuality, if homosexuals kept their perversion to themselves the issue of discrimination would not come up. But when the LGBTQ and transgender agenda is pushed vigorously, along with gay pride and gay parades, and children are at risk, then that has to be totally opposed. That is pure evil.

As to the elimination of poverty, if the 1% at the top were to truly repent and be converted, there would be no poverty. But because of selfishness and greed, and because not all will repent, this issue will not go away. As a matter of fact the globalists elites have an agenda to make everyone poor and destroy their lives. The remedy would be to arrest them all and lock them up. But who is going to do that?

 

[2ndRateMind]

I don't know what cereal box you read that off of, but it's not in the Bible.

Is that my problem, or a fault in the Bible, and therefore, yours?

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

And there it is.

You should start each and every post with that as your calling card.

THAT is what you represent.

What I actually said was:

But you have to be prepared to put the Bible down, every so often, and study a little science, occasionally.

What could possibly be your problem with studying a little about God's world, and how it works?

Best wishes, 2RM.