22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Truth7t7]

My view doesn't depend on knowing who the modern Jews are today. My view depends on Authorial Intent, whereby the definition of "Israel" depends on the context and what the author intends to say. My view does not discount the possibility that the prophets might speak about Israel differently than Judah.

I simply take issue with the doctrine of replacement theology. In my view, the Bible does NOT teach that Christian peoples are the Israelites of God, spiritually or literally.

When God declares that he will move to restore his holy name, in Ezekiel 36, he isn't talking about the Christian people of the church.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the promises and covenant made to Abraham, the Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed, it's that simple

The promises made to Abraham have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, read it again and again

Jesus Christ is the promised seed, and his children are the Church

Galatians 3:16-29KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

(Two Israel's Are Seen Below)

(1) Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed

(2) National Ethnic Israel (Flesh)

The Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed

They which are the children of the flesh (Ethnic Israel) these are not the children of God

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all (1)Israel, which are of (2)Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Jesus Christ fulfilled the promises and covenant made to Abraham.

Not yet, but he will. Abraham was promised eternal life, and eternal life will be given to all those who have the same faith as Abraham. Eternal life, while secured in Jesus Christ, is yet to be granted.

the Church is the Israel of God

The Church is the assembly of all those, living down through history and those living today who share the same faith as Abraham.
The Israel of God are those sons of Jacob whom God has kept for himself.

children of the promised seed

There is no such thing as a "promised seed" as if a particular family line is chosen for eternal life. Rather, as Paul points out, there are "children of promise" meaning, God decides which individual to bless with eternal life, based on his own plans and purposes for that individual. Paul refers to them as "the chosen."

The promises made to Abraham have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, read it again and again

The promise God made to Abraham is not the subject of this thread. The subject of this thread is an attack on a particular interpretation of Revelation 20, which takes the passage literally. In my view and the view of many others, John is predicting a time after the second coming when Jesus Christ will rule the entire world from the city of Jerusalem just as the prophets have said.

The predicate for the Millennial era is God's desire to prove himself among the nations and to restore his holy name. Nothing in your post here contradicts Gods word through the prophet Ezekiel.

(Two Israel's Are Seen Below)
Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all (1)Israel, which are of (2)Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The Ford motor company was named after the founder of the company. There is FORD the car company and there is Henry Ford the person.

Likewise, ISRAEL, the nation, is named after the Patriarch Israel, who is the progenitor of that nation.

Now, the KJV is misleading because it doesn't properly convey what Paul actually said in verse 6. The KJV rendering of verse 6 reads like an event that already took place' a promise that was already fulfilled. But Paul is not talking about a promise that God already fulfilled; he is speaking to a promise yet to be fulfilled. The NASB 1995 is closer to Paul's intent.

"But it is not as though the word of God has failed."

To understand this better, let's reformulate this statement as a rhetorical question based on the pattern Paul set up for the previous eight chanters. "Has the word of God failed? May it never be." What promise is in view here? God's promise to Abraham? I don't think so. This is why it is so important to interpret passages from within the context. Essentially, Paul tells you the promise HE has in mind as he writes verse 6.

Verse 3:
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons,

In this context, Paul is NOT talking about so-called "spiritual Israel" he is talking about "my kinsmen according to the flesh." And concerning his kinsmen Paul declares that "the adoption as sons" belongs to THEM, not to the church, not to true Israel, not to true Jews. The adoption as sons belongs to his kinsmen of the flesh. Period.

The adoption as sons will be granted to the Church, it will be granted to the True Israel, the True Jew, the elect of God, the Jesus followers. BUT it wasn't promised to any of these people. It doesn't belong to any of them by right or by birth or by promise. BUT as Paul says, it does belong to his kinsmen according to the flesh.

And so, given that eternal life was promised to his kinsmen of the flesh, what are we saying then? Has the promise of God failed? May it never be.

Given that Paul is concerned about his own kinsmen, then we understand that his question is NOT a Jew/Gentile issue. It is not even a spirit/flesh issue. For Paul the issue is chosen/not-chosen issue.

 

[CadyandZoe]

We disagree as post #2781 clearly explains above

You espiuse the doctrine of dispensationalusm

No, you are mistaken. And frankly I don't know the source of your objection, given that you haven't cited any examples.

The doctrine of Dispensationalism, in a nut-shell, teaches that the basis, means, and criteria of salvation changed over time, depending on the era or "dispensation." I disagree with this doctrine because Paul disagrees with it. In fact, in Romans 4, Paul argues that the basis of salvation has always been the same. Essentially, he argues that Abraham is "the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised." With regard to salvation, there is no dispensational distinction.

But let me continue with the observations I made in my previous post to you. Romans 9 is concerned with a promise God made to Paul's kinsmen of the flesh. And in that context, Paul does NOT raise the Jew/Gentile distinction, he does not raise the spirit/flesh distinction. Rather he raises the chosen/not-chosen distinction. Isaac was a child of promise because God wished it. Jacob was a child of promise because God wished it. As Paul argues, "it doesn't depend on the man who wills or the man who runs but on God who has mercy."

You will say then, eternal life is being granted to ALL those who have circumcised hearts. And right you are. But Paul takes this one step further to argue that circumcision of the heart is a marker of God's handywork. A person has a circumcised heart only if God wishes it. And for this reason, salvation is truly a matter of mercy and grace.

Logically speaking there is absolutely nothing to impede God from circumcising all Jews who exist today, and for that matter, there is nothing that impedes God from circumcising each and every human being on the planet. The only thing stopping God is God himself. As Paul says, God's choice is predicated on his own purposes. If God saves me, it isn't because he saw something special in me. If it serves his purpose, he will save me, if not, he won't.

This is why God says, in the prophet Ezekiel, “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went."

You see, the Millennial period is not for our sake, it isn't for Israel's sake, it isn't for the Jews sake, it isn't for the Gentiles sake. God acts for his holy name.

 

[Truth7t7]

In my view and the view of many others, John is predicting a time after the second coming when Jesus Christ will rule the entire world from the city of Jerusalem just as the prophets have said.

The predicate for the Millennial era is God's desire to prove himself among the nations and to restore his holy name. Nothing in your post here contradicts Gods word through the prophet Ezekiel.

The Ford motor company was named after the founder of the company. There is FORD the car company and there is Henry Ford the person.

Likewise, ISRAEL, the nation, is named after the Patriarch Israel, who is the progenitor of that nation.

Now, the KJV is misleading because it doesn't properly convey what Paul actually said in verse 6. The KJV rendering of verse 6 reads like an event that already took place' a promise that was already fulfilled. But Paul is not talking about a promise that God already fulfilled; he is speaking to a promise yet to be fulfilled. The NASB 1995 is closer to Paul's intent.

"But it is not as though the word of God has failed."

To understand this better, let's reformulate this statement as a rhetorical question based on the pattern Paul set up for the previous eight chanters. "Has the word of God failed? May it never be." What promise is in view here? God's promise to Abraham? I don't think so. This is why it is so important to interpret passages from within the context. Essentially, Paul tells you the promise HE has in mind as he writes verse 6.

Verse 3:
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons,

In this context, Paul is NOT talking about so-called "spiritual Israel" he is talking about "my kinsmen according to the flesh." And concerning his kinsmen Paul declares that "the adoption as sons" belongs to THEM, not to the church, not to true Israel, not to true Jews. The adoption as sons belongs to his kinsmen of the flesh. Period.

The adoption as sons will be granted to the Church, it will be granted to the True Israel, the True Jew, the elect of God, the Jesus followers. BUT it wasn't promised to any of these people. It doesn't belong to any of them by right or by birth or by promise. BUT as Paul says, it does belong to his kinsmen according to the flesh.

And so, given that eternal life was promised to his kinsmen of the flesh, what are we saying then? Has the promise of God failed? May it never be.

Given that Paul is concerned about his own kinsmen, then we understand that his question is NOT a Jew/Gentile issue. It is not even a spirit/flesh issue. For Paul the issue is chosen/not-chosen issue.

The Prophets Said No Such Thing As You Believe And Teach

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Truth7t7]

You see, the Millennial period is not for our sake, it isn't for Israel's sake, it isn't for the Jews sake, it isn't for the Gentiles sake. God acts for his holy name.

No such thing as a Millennial Kingdom on this earth where Jesus Christ rules the world from Jerusalem, as you believe and teach

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

The teaching of a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth is a deceptive fabricated fairy tale of man, found no place in scripture

 

[CadyandZoe]

That's correct and that's why I don't believe it. In my view no one gets replaced. So, using that label to describe my beliefs is inappropriate.

This is where you misunderstand the doctrine of Replacement theology, which is not focused on individuals. RT doesn't teach than anyone gets replaced. Rather, it teaches that God substituted the Church collective for Israel (seen as a collective).

 

[Truth7t7]

This is where you misunderstand the doctrine of Replacement theology, which is not focused on individuals. RT doesn't teach than anyone gets replaced. Rather, it teaches that God substituted the Church collective for Israel (seen as a collective).

No such thing as (Replacement Theology) it's a fake propaganda phrase created by those adherents within dispensationalism

The Kingdom of God was taken from "Israel" and given to the "Church" who is bringing forth God's fruit

Matthew 21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[CadyandZoe]

The Prophets Said No Such Thing As You Believe And Teach

I just cited the book of Revelation for starters.

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

My claims are based on my study of the scriptures. Do you believe that Psalm 110 is about Jesus? I think so. And so does Paul.
Psalm 110 describes Christ ruling on earth.
Isaiah chapter 2 also describes the Millennial period. So does Isaiah 4. Isaiah 24:23 also. Joel 3:17 etc. There are too many to mention here.

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

11 They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

Jesus referred to himself as "the Son of Man", which is a name that comes from the Psalms of David.
Speaking of himself, David writes, "What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him?
David was reflecting on God's choice to rule the world through David and his sons. 2Samuel 7:16 He is amazed that God would do such a thing. Psalms 8:3-5.

This appellation is picked up again in Daniel 7. Here Daniel is given a brief timeline of human history, which ends with the final kingdom on earth, being ruled by the son of man and his people.

Daniel 7:
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Here the prophet Daniel is given a vision of the final kingdom on earth. The Son of Man will be given a dominion so that all the peoples, nations, and men of every language might serve him.

27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’

 

[CadyandZoe]

No such thing as a Millennial Kingdom on this earth where Jesus Christ rules the world from Jerusalem, as you believe and teach

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

The teaching of a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth is a deceptive fabricated fairy tale of man, found no place in scripture

The earth is not dissolved by fire. You may be thinking of Peter's comment about the earth and its works being burned up. I maintain that Peter refers to the events described in Malachi 4 and Joel 1-3. The fires burn up the earth, but they do not destroy the earth. But those who flee to Jerusalem will survive the fires and meet Jesus there.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No such thing as (Replacement Theology) it's a fake propaganda phrase created by those adherents within dispensationalism

The Kingdom of God was taken from "Israel" and given to the "Church" who is bringing forth God's fruit

Matthew 21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

You misunderstand what Jesus means here. The kingdom of God will be taken away from you [The Pharisees] and given to another people [The apostles.]

And Peter is speaking to fellow Jewish believers in the diaspora, referring to THEM as a holy nation etc.

 

[Truth7t7]

This appellation is picked up again in Daniel 7. Here Daniel is given a brief timeline of human history, which ends with the final kingdom on earth, being ruled by the son of man and his people.

Daniel 7:
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Here the prophet Daniel is given a vision of the final kingdom on earth. The Son of Man will be given a dominion so that all the peoples, nations, and men of every language might serve him.

27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’

Your citation of Daniel will be fulfilled in the eternal kingdom after the final judgement, New Jerusalem where the Nations will bring their honor into it

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Truth7t7]

But those who flee to Jerusalem will survive the fires and meet Jesus there.

Your Continued Claim Is "False"

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Truth7t7]

And Peter is speaking to fellow Jewish believers in the diaspora, referring to THEM as a holy nation etc.

Your claim is "False"

Peter is speaking to the "Church" an Holy Nation where there is neither Jew-Greek, as you try desperately to promote the false doctrine in (Two Peoples Of God) based upon Ethnic-National heritage

1 Peter 1:1-3KJV
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The Church, An Holy Nation

Galatians 3:26-29KJV
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Truth7t7]

The earth is not dissolved by fire. You may be thinking of Peter's comment about the earth and its works being burned up. I maintain that Peter refers to the events described in Malachi 4 and Joel 1-3. The fires burn up the earth, but they do not destroy the earth. But those who flee to Jerusalem will survive the fires and meet Jesus there.

Your claim is "False"

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your claim is "False"

Peter is speaking to the "Church" an Holy Nation where there is neither Jew-Greek, as you try desperately to promote the false doctrine in (Two Peoples Of God) based upon Ethnic-National heritage.

Again, I don't know the basis of your charge that I speak out of desperation since you haven't cited an example from my posts.
My claim that Peter is speaking to Jewish believers is based on the Greek Text, wherein he addresses "the diaspora", a term associated with Jews living abroad. On what do you base YOUR claim?

The KJV has erroneously mislead English readers, with the word "strangers" as if Peter decided to address a letter to people he didn't know. The Greek word translated "strangers" as I said earlier is "diaspora" a term that indicates Jewish people living abroad.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your claim is "False"

Quoting verses doesn't prove anything. In other words, your verses show that fire is both associated with judgment and the final days. But what they don't show is why my claim is false.

Peter is talking about the day of the Lord. The passages you cite should speak directly to THAT time period. The information contained in Revelation 21, for instance is not relevant to the Day of the Lord since the DOL has already past by the time we get to Revelation 21.

 

[Truth7t7]

Again, I don't know the basis of your charge that I speak out of desperation since you haven't cited an example from my posts.
My claim that Peter is speaking to Jewish believers is based on the Greek Text, wherein he addresses "the diaspora", a term associated with Jews living abroad. On what do you base YOUR claim?

The KJV has erroneously mislead English readers, with the word "strangers" as if Peter decided to address a letter to people he didn't know. The Greek word translated "strangers" as I said earlier is "diaspora" a term that indicates Jewish people living abroad.

Your post below claiming "Another People" is the "Apostles" receiving the Kingdom, your claim isn't found in scripture, its the "Nation" bringing forth the fruit, this represents the "Church" as you have been shown

The Kingdom of God was taken from "Israel" and given to the "Church" who is bringing forth God's fruit

Matthew 21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Quote CadyandZoe post #2790

"You misunderstand what Jesus means here. The kingdom of God will be taken away from you [The Pharisees] and given to another people [The apostles.]

And Peter is speaking to fellow Jewish believers in the diaspora, referring to THEM as a holy nation etc."

 

[Truth7t7]

Quoting verses doesn't prove anything. In other words, your verses show that fire is both associated with judgment and the final days. But what they don't show is why my claim is false.

Peter is talking about the day of the Lord. The passages you cite should speak directly to THAT time period. The information contained in Revelation 21, for instance is not relevant to the Day of the Lord since the DOL has already past by the time we get to Revelation 21.

Your In Denial Of Biblical Truth Before Your Eyes, It's That Simple

You Claimed The Earth Isn't Dissolved By Fire, The Scripture Below Proves Your Claim Is "False"

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your post below claiming "Another People" is the "Apostles" receiving the Kingdom, your claim isn't found in scripture, its the "Nation" bringing forth the fruit, this represents the "Church" as you have been shown.

Again, I encourage everyone to understand a text from within the immediate context. Why did I tell you that Jesus was speaking about the Pharisees specifically?

When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them. ​

Did you catch that? The Pharisees understood, correctly, that the Kingdom was going to be taken away from THEM in particular.
Therefore, Jesus is NOT contrasting Israel and the Church as you suggest.

 

[Truth7t7]

Again, I encourage everyone to understand a text from within the immediate context. Why did I tell you that Jesus was speaking about the Pharisees specifically?

When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them. ​

Did you catch that? The Pharisees understood, correctly, that the Kingdom was going to be taken away from THEM in particular.
Therefore, Jesus is NOT contrasting Israel and the Church as you suggest.

Of course the "Chief Priests and Pharisees" were the religious rulers representing "Israel" whom the kingdom was taken from

Of course the "Church" represents the "Nation" bringing forth the fruit that is now in possession of the Kingdom of God on earth

You can bend and twist all you want, your Zionist claims are silenced in presented scripture

The Kingdom of God was taken from "Israel" and given to the "Church" who is bringing forth God's fruit

Matthew 21:42-45KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;