22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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St. Joseph

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Really? Then give us Scripture - if you are so confident. I will not hold my breath. Just like when you could not show Pretrib in the Bible.
That download i sent you is by a man who pastored beginning before ww2. I really like his studies. I was against the rapture until i found him. He died in 1989,but left a study of the whole bible for others to learn by. You dont have to agree with him on everything. I dont necessarily agree with once saved always saved. But other things i agree 100 percent
 

St. Joseph

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Quote and highlight the actual text. Your MO is to give references so as to avoid the sacred text exposing your claims.
Are you here to get others to study for you? Its there study it. Or download it.
 

St. Joseph

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LOL. More avoidance. You are so dependent on your end-time teachers because you cannot find it in God's Book. It has to be taught. It is a waste of time engaging with you.

I was raised with Pretrib error. I will never gain embrace it. It is deception. You cannot even give us a proof text.
Whatever
 

Truth7t7

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Isaiah,Ezekiel,Zechariah,joel
No such thing as a millennial kingdom on this earth, it's a fabricated man made fairy tale found no place in scripture

Quote the scripture you reference, there isn't a millennial kingdom on this earth as you claim, waiting?
 

WPM

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Once again, no mention of the Church, therefore in your school of thought, that means the Church is absent. That is what you have been wrongly taught. You are hung by your own noose.

Revelation 12 places the defeat of Satan at the resurrection/ascension, thus refuting your argument: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Andthe great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

I believe the woman refers to the Israel of Israel (God's true people). The child is Christ. The highlighted part above shows the incarnation and resurrection. The woman is the redeemed Church since Adam. The NT saints are united in Christ with the OT saints. This is a spiritual people not a physical people.

The Lord says to the “seven churches” in Revelation 12:11-17, Philadelphia included, “And they (God’s people) overcame him (the devil) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (God’s people) which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness (the world), into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent (Satan). And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman (God’s people), that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman (God’s people), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth (God’s Sovereign protection). And the dragon was wroth with the woman (God’s people), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

There is no doubt from this passage that the Church is portrayed as the particular focus of the devil’s assaults. However, it is also equally depicted as being the subject of the protection of God and of being kept from the hour of trial that has engulfed the world. No rapture is mentioned to rescue her from the attacks of the enemy, or spare her the tests of this present age. No, the Church is simply sheltered beneath the sovereign hand of God in this battle. The wonderful assurance that is embodied within this reading, although written initially to “the seven churches,” relates also to the Church generally and to a period subsequent to the ascension. Revelation 12:5 describes how Christ “was caught up unto God, and to his throne.” Christ promises the church protection from arrows of the devil in Matthew 16:18, saying, “I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

The means by which these saints overcome the devil, the world and the flesh during great tribulation is the exact same as that employed by Christians throughout history. Those Christians that carry “the testimony of Jesus” in the tribulation are seen to conquer Satan by “the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony” (Revelation 12:11), again, confirming their sure unitary position within the redeemed Church of Jesus Christ.
 

Truther

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2 Corinthians 1
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Do you think that Christ has not fulfilled the promises?
The promises are IN him, not us.

You only get to enjoy a smidgin' of it now.

Quit pretending that this demon infested world is the best that Jesus can do for mankind.

Satan has whooped mankind for 6000 years, but he is going to take a 1000 year break and Jesus will reign uncontested.
 

Truther

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Where in Rev 20 teaches that Christ will reign on earth after the second coming on a millennial earth?
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

Truther

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Where in Rev 20 teaches that Christ will reign on earth after the second coming on a millennial earth?
Just curious. Were you ever affiliated with oneness since you know about it? Not a trick question.
 

Truther

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Relevant question to the OP.

Does anyone think the Law has ended?
 

WPM

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4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Where does it say that this is on earth? You keep avoiding that. This is talking about the throne of God in heaven now.
 

Truth7t7

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Satan has whooped mankind for 6000 years, but he is going to take a 1000 year break and Jesus will reign uncontested.
Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 

rwb

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4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

When and where had these martyred saints lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years? Also, when and where shall the blessed and holy that hath part in the first resurrection, overcome the second death, shall be priests of God and of Christ and reign with Him a thousand years?

The martyred saints of vs 4 is written of that which was past tense when John wrote this. But those of vs 6 are written as that which has not yet happened but shall in the future.

Most almost unanimously agree that "a thousand years" equates to TIME. Most almost unanimously agree that TIME occurs during this age of the earth and agree the age to come shall be eternal. This proves a thousand years that equate to TIME is symbolic of time for which the Gospel is sent unto all the nations of the world so the spiritual Kingdom of God can be complete as Gentiles of faith enter into the Kingdom with Jews of faith. Together they are "Israel of God".

Your argument that Christ shall reign on this earth and His saints with Him for ONE thousand literal years falls flat! How can those who have already given their lives for Christ who have lived with Him a thousand years, and others too shall reign with Him for a thousand years be literal since it is NOT consecutive time?
 

St. Joseph

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No such thing as a millennial kingdom on this earth, it's a fabricated man made fairy tale found no place in scripture

Quote the scripture you reference, there isn't a millennial kingdom on this earth as you claim, waiting?

Old testament scripture does not use the exact words,but if you study it will jump out at you. You couldnt miss it. Problem is,people dont study old testament anymore. They think now rhe new testament is all thats needed. And if it is not laid out where they can just read what they are looking for they have no desire to search so the Holy Spirit can teach them. Study the scriptures. Its there.
 

WPM

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Old testament scripture does not use the exact words,but if you study it will jump out at you. You couldnt miss it. Problem is,people dont study old testament anymore. They think now rhe new testament is all thats needed. And if it is not laid out where they can just read what they are looking for they have no desire to search so the Holy Spirit can teach them. Study the scriptures. Its there.

You are so convinced you cannot even quote us one OT passage that teaches this. That is because it does not exist.
 
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rwb

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Old testament scripture does not use the exact words,but if you study it will jump out at you. You couldnt miss it. Problem is,people dont study old testament anymore. They think now rhe new testament is all thats needed. And if it is not laid out where they can just read what they are looking for they have no desire to search so the Holy Spirit can teach them. Study the scriptures. Its there.

Prove what you allege! There is not a single verse found in Scripture to support Christ reigning on this earth for ONE thousand years! Nowhere to be found in the Old Testament or the New! It's a doctrine invented from the minds of men! Unless you can prove what you allege through supporting Scripture you have given nothing but your uncorroborated OPINION!
 
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