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[TreesTrees]

...

 

[Wrangler]

Universal Reconciliation

If there is universal reconciliation, why is there a Second Death and Lake of Fire and why the false dichotomy of being saved - since there is no alternative in UR?

 

[Patrick1966]

If there is universal reconciliation...

You can ask God when you meet him. :)

1 Timothy 4:10 esv
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

 

[Wrangler]

Re-stating your response in converse, the living God will save all the people who will be saved. It really does not answer any of my questions.

"Air is for everyone to breath" does not explain why some still suffocate.

 

[Patrick1966]

Re-stating your response in converse, the living God will save all the people who will be saved. It really does not answer any of my questions.

"Air is for everyone to breath" does not explain why some still suffocate.

The verse is simple and clear. What's not to understand?

 

[Wrangler]

Re-stating your response in converse, the living God will save all the people who will be saved. It really does not answer any of my questions.

"Air is for everyone to breath" does not explain why some still suffocate.

The verse is simple and clear. What's not to understand?

The verse is taken by you to implicitly support UR while simultaneously ignoring verses that explicitly reject UR. What's not to understand?

 

[Patrick1966]

...while simultaneously ignoring verses that explicitly reject UR

Such as?

 

[Wrangler]

Such as?

See post #2.

 

[Patrick1966]

If there is universal reconciliation, why is there a Second Death and Lake of Fire and why the false dichotomy of being saved - since there is no alternative in UR?

My brother, you misunderstand universal salvation. Jesus saves faithful believers from damnation to the Lake of Fire. You see, by believing in Christ we purify ourselves.

1 John 3:3 esv
And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

Unbelievers and "bad" Christians, however, have not looked to Christ and so they are NOT purified and so they MUST go to the Lake of Fire where they will be punished and, ultimately, purified so that they too can be saved from eternal death and, eventually, join the rest of us in God's kingdom on Earth. That is the "second death". It is a figurative, not literal, statement. After all...

1 Corinthians 15:22-26
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

So here is the timeline

Jesus returns and resurrects Christians (and possibly "good" non-Christians, but that's another thread).

Some believe there is a millennium rule and others don't believe in that. In any event, on "the last day" Jesus will resurrect everyone else and they will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment. Based on the scriptures, it seems that some will be tossed into the Lake of Fire.

One they have been cleansed, Jesus will deliver the kingdom to God as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15.

Remember...

2 Corinthians 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Revelation 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Luke 3:6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God

 

[Wrangler]

My brother, you misunderstand universal salvation. Jesus saves faithful believers from damnation to the Lake of Fire.

Then by ‘universal’ you mean ‘conditional’ which is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of universal.

 

[Patrick1966]

Then by ‘universal’ you mean ‘conditional’ which is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of universal.

I'm not personally aware of any universalists that have stated that people are NOT sent to the Lake of Fire. There is no scriptural support to suggest that Jesus saves ALL from being sent there. On the contrary, we know and believe that the LOF is actually used by Christ to SAVE people so that they can go to be with God. As the scriptures clearly state, It is God's will that NONE be lost.

The "forever Hell" crowd has to ignore a plethora of scripture to believe that God tortures people forever. That is an absurd belief straight from Satan's mouth, yet most of Christianity believes it. Amazing.