7 World Empires and Bible Prophecy

[DogLady19]

Thanks. I like it when having these types of discussions over matters that can have several interpretations when there is an understanding that, "even though there is a right answer, it may or may not be mine". I've found it a lot easier to learn from others input when this is the case.

I enjoy a good discussion and love to learn from others as well. ^_^

Back to the topic at hand, I find it significant that every generation since Nero has declared that they are living in the tribulation... and I think they were all correct. There has been no time of peace, but of turmoil and persecution since Jesus ascended into Heaven. I just don't think John's prophecies were that shrouded in symbolism... I think the symbolism is evident to those who experienced the particular event disclosed in the prophecy. (Those who have ears let them hear...)

Scripture does not deem antichrist as a single person who dominates the world in one last ditch effort to thwart God's plans. This is not a new belief, but a very old one that has been wrong each time it has come up in history - But alas, none of them have brought about the 2nd coming of Christ.

The empires throughout history, the tyrants, the dictators, those governments that commit genocide, torture, slavery, mass murders, along with their loyal servants and followers are all antichrist or have taken the identity of antichrist.

"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour... This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:18-22

This scripture also tells me we are already in the last hour, since the "last hour" began nearly 2000 years ago... It makes sense that we are in the last moments of the Tribulation in our effort to spread the Gospel to everyone in the world, which is required before Jesus makes His return...

 

[toknowthetruth]

I enjoy a good discussion and love to learn from others as well. ^_^

Back to the topic at hand, I find it significant that every generation since Nero has declared that they are living in the tribulation... and I think they were all correct. There has been no time of peace, but of turmoil and persecution since Jesus ascended into Heaven. I just don't think John's prophecies were that shrouded in symbolism... I think the symbolism is evident to those who experienced the particular event disclosed in the prophecy. (Those who have ears let them hear...)

Scripture does not deem antichrist as a single person who dominates the world in one last ditch effort to thwart God's plans. This is not a new belief, but a very old one that has been wrong each time it has come up in history - But alas, none of them have brought about the 2nd coming of Christ.

The empires throughout history, the tyrants, the dictators, those governments that commit genocide, torture, slavery, mass murders, along with their loyal servants and followers are all antichrist or have taken the identity of antichrist.

"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour... This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son." -1 John 2:18-22

This scripture also tells me we are already in the last hour, since the "last hour" began nearly 2000 years ago... It makes sense that we are in the last moments of the Tribulation in our effort to spread the Gospel to everyone in the world, which is required before Jesus makes His return...

You have a point there. However, you have to ignore some pretty specific prophecies with that interpretation. I personally feel there have been many manifestations of the AC, but there will be one last AC who will be the ultimate fulfillment of the prophecies about him. I'm referring to the AC in broader terms here i.e., little horn, beast, man of sin, son of perdition, etc.

 

[DogLady19]

You have a point there. However, you have to ignore some pretty specific prophecies with that interpretation. I personally feel there have been many manifestations of the AC, but there will be one last AC who will be the ultimate fulfillment of the prophecies about him. I'm referring to the AC in broader terms here i.e., little horn, beast, man of sin, son of perdition, etc.

Yes, I think it is possible that there will be one single ruler that is completely under the control of satan and spearheads antichrist on a global scale... I do not dismiss that possibility at all.

But I see where Caligula and Nero met that criteria well.

(Frankly, I can't imagine a person in this day and age able to fool the world into thinking he is god.)

 

[toknowthetruth]

Yes, I think it is possible that there will be one single ruler that is completely under the control of satan and spearheads antichrist on a global scale... I do not dismiss that possibility at all.

But I see where Caligula and Nero met that criteria well.

(Frankly, I can't imagine a person in this day and age able to fool the world into thinking he is god.)

Yes, it does seem a bit of a stretch, at least in the western world. Can't speak for the rest. However, there's a lot of westerners who are getting into this sort of eastern philosophy that we are sort of our own god. Actually thinking about it a bit more, the way things are going it wouldn't surprise me if people would swallow whatever the AC told them, especially if he were doing "great wonders" to persuade them.

 

[brakelite]

I think I can explain how that will work.

Isa 14:12-14 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will also sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;

I will be like the Most High.

Here is the key. Here we have a revelation into the heart and mind of Satan. We are here given insight into his most cherished ambition, to be like God, therefore to receive the worship, adoration and fidelity of his subjects. If anyone has doubt as to whether Satan still cherishes this particular ambition, one need look no further than the temptation of Christ in order to confirm this. Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth and their glory, if only Jesus would fall down and worship him. Imagine, the Creator worshiping His creation!!! Although Satan failed in that particular exercise, he has not failed when it comes to enticing man to worship him. I am not speaking here of those who are involved in the occult, or in Satanic rites. No, no. I am speaking of people who consider themselves Christians, those who sincerely believe and are convinced they are worshiping God. Allow me to explain. Occultists and Satanists etc are already his. They are already in his back pocket, safely tucked away until judgment, unless of course there is some form of miraculous intervention through prayer and the grace of God. Also, religionists of all pagan persuasions are his. Atheists are his. It is the church of God.....Christians....who are Satan's specific target.
Satan can not enter the church of course and introduce himself and make a polite request that the congregation worship him. He knows that will not work; we know that will not work; such an attempt would be met with a less than favorable response. Therefore, in order to gain the advantage over those who believe in God, he must use deception. The apostle Paul alluded to this very thing when he wrote:

2 Thess. 2:3-10. Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was with you, I told you of these things? And now ye know what with-holdeth, that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming....

Reading to this point, one might think that Satan has competition. Someone else vying for the adoration of man. But let us read further;

….. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

“Whose coming is after the working of Satan!!?” Not competition, but his own child! Here is Satan’s baby. Here is that creation of his which enters the church and in his place accepts man’s worship by proclaiming himself God, but it is in fact Satan who receives the ultimate glory.
Satan could not himself enter the church, but he could very easily use someone else to do that for him, and through him, receive the worship he desires. By misrepresenting God, and introducing a counterfeit God and a counterfeit religion to worship that God, Satan has deceived millions. Allow me to make a point regarding deception, using counterfeit money as an example. People are not deceived into believing that it is acceptable in the eyes of the authorities to use counterfeit money. The deception operates by way of blinding the people that it is a counterfeit. It is fake, but they believe it to be real. It is the same with religion. Satan would deceive very few into thinking that it is acceptable to God for man to worship Satan. But he has had resounding success in deceiving many into thinking they are worshiping God, when in fact they are worshiping Satan. So the question arises, which religion is Satan's special baby, the counterfeit to the real?

 

[DogLady19]

However, there's a lot of westerners who are getting into this sort of eastern philosophy that we are sort of our own god.

That more accurately describes the "spirit" of antichrist, not a person, does it not? And yes, people see wonders and miracles from their own sense of divinity.

 

[DogLady19]

...

Isa 14:12-14 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will also sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;

I will be like the Most High.
...

2 Thess. 2:3-10. Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was with you, I told you of these things? And now ye know what with-holdeth, that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming....

Reading to this point, one might think that Satan has competition. Someone else vying for the adoration of man. But let us read further;

….. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

“Whose coming is after the working of Satan!!?” Not competition, but his own child! Here is Satan’s baby. ...

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work"... Yes, the spirit of antichrist will reign until Jesus' return... The one who exalted himself above god was satan himself... and then he got a few humans to do it here on earth.

Satan's baby??? Nah, more like people who are under satan's control... 2 Thess. 2:10 makes it clear that those who follow are the people who refuse to love the truth and be saved. Not a "him" but a "they"...

 

[toknowthetruth]

That more accurately describes the "spirit" of antichrist, not a person, does it not? And yes, people see wonders and miracles from their own sense of divinity.

Seems like the AC will do pretty amazing "wonders" through his false prophet like making fire come down from heaven on the earth. (Rev 13:13) Could possibly be some kind of powerful laser. Even the image of the beast sounds like some kind of advanced technology that he uses to get people to submit to his rule. (Rev 13:15) Of course it's pretty common knowledge that they have technology developed to "chip" humans which could be used instead of a credit card with many other uses as well. (Rev 13:16-17)

 

[DogLady19]

Seems like the AC will do pretty amazing "wonders" through his false prophet like making fire come down from heaven on the earth. (Rev 13:13) Could possibly be some kind of powerful laser. Even the image of the beast sounds like some kind of advanced technology that he uses to get people to submit to his rule. (Rev 13:15) Of course it's pretty common knowledge that they have technology developed to "chip" humans which could be used instead of a credit card with many other uses as well. (Rev 13:16-17)

Yes. And I am not trying to direct this at your personally, but those theories were posited by Lindsey and LeHaye in the 70's... And since the era of Late Great Planet Earth and Left Behind, I have grown skeptical of those theories that make all of John's revelations far into the future...

I do think humans will bring about their own destruction... Just as much as God used the hi-tech roadways of Pax Romana to spread the Gospel throughout the known world, it stands to reason that our modern technology (and our penchant for hi-tech killing machines) will be used by God to destroy the earth by fire. (BTW: I'm amazed at the wondrous machine by which I am communicating with you right now!)

I think many of the things in John's prophecy has already come to pass, including the Abomination of Desolation and the mark of the beast. What we experience today is the continued effort of satan to prevent the spread of the Gospel, including the persecution of His people, and a great falling away...

 

[toknowthetruth]

Yes. And I am not trying to direct this at your personally, but those theories were posited by Lindsey and LeHaye in the 70's... And since the era of Late Great Planet Earth and Left Behind, I have grown skeptical of those theories that make all of John's revelations far into the future...

I do think humans will bring about their own destruction... Just as much as God used the hi-tech roadways of Pax Romana to spread the Gospel throughout the known world, it stands to reason that our modern technology (and our penchant for hi-tech killing machines) will be used by God to destroy the earth by fire. (BTW: I'm amazed at the wondrous machine by which I am communicating with you right now!)

I think many of the things in John's prophecy has already come to pass, including the Abomination of Desolation and the mark of the beast. What we experience today is the continued effort of satan to prevent the spread of the Gospel, including the persecution of His people, and a great falling away...

I understand. However, just cause some of what they said was wrong doesn't mean all of it is wrong. I don't recommend throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I haven't read their books but I would guess that many of their teachings were based on past interpretations. What they probably did was modify some of those interpretation and add some of their own interpretations.

I'm not saying you don't have a valid point in what you're saying. However, it does seem to me that there is pretty strong scriptural evidence that supports the great tribulation to be 3.5 years. If that's the case we haven't seen the abomination of desolations nor the great tribulation yet. Regarding the mark of the beast, what historical event do you think that is?

 

[DogLady19]

I haven't read their books but I would guess that many of their teachings were based on past interpretations. ...

However, it does seem to me that there is pretty strong scriptural evidence that supports the great tribulation to be 3.5 years. If that's the case we haven't seen the abomination of desolations nor the great tribulation yet. Regarding the mark of the beast, what historical event do you think that is?

OR that recent teachings are based on their interpretations, which seems to be the case. Once you read the books, you'll see what I mean...

Yes, 42 months is mentioned as a time period, but I think this is based on the writers' tendency to use a style common to their readership at the time... I don't think the 3.5 year period is 42 modern calendar months... Daniel 7 says this period will be "time, times and time and a half" But then in Daniel 9, it says that the tribulation period will be in the middle of the 70th week... (A week that contains 3.5 years in the middle of it?) Revelations 3:10 says the tribulation period will only be an hour long... Yeah, those milestones are not marked by calendar days/weeks/months...

Rev. 3:10 seems to be one that many use to claim that the saints will not go through the tribulation, but they are misinterpreting the phrase "keep you from"... that means we will be sustained and guarded during that time, not that we will be taken out of the situation. It is evident when you read it in context.

Revelations 13:7 clearly states that the tribulation period will be spent warring with the saints. And several passages in the NT prepare us for persecutions, bloodshed, suffering, etc. Jesus knew it would be part of our lives after he ascended back to Heaven and until His return. He prepared us, and so did the apostles.

"I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus..." Rev 1:9

The mark of the beast is 666 which is the number of a man... Nero's name is 666 using numbers as letters. He fits the description of the evil leader spoken about by Daniel, John, etc.

 

[toknowthetruth]

OR that recent teachings are based on their interpretations, which seems to be the case. Once you read the books, you'll see what I mean...

Yes, 42 months is mentioned as a time period, but I think this is based on the writers' tendency to use a style common to their readership at the time... I don't think the 3.5 year period is 42 modern calendar months... Daniel 7 says this period will be "time, times and time and a half" But then in Daniel 9, it says that the tribulation period will be in the middle of the 70th week... (A week that contains 3.5 years in the middle of it?) Revelations 3:10 says the tribulation period will only be an hour long... Yeah, those milestones are not marked by calendar days/weeks/months...

Rev. 3:10 seems to be one that many use to claim that the saints will not go through the tribulation, but they are misinterpreting the phrase "keep you from"... that means we will be sustained and guarded during that time, not that we will be taken out of the situation. It is evident when you read it in context.

Revelations 13:7 clearly states that the tribulation period will be spent warring with the saints. And several passages in the NT prepare us for persecutions, bloodshed, suffering, etc. Jesus knew it would be part of our lives after he ascended back to Heaven and until His return. He prepared us, and so did the apostles.

"I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus..." Rev 1:9

The mark of the beast is 666 which is the number of a man... Nero's name is 666 using numbers as letters. He fits the description of the evil leader spoken about by Daniel, John, etc.

Interesting take on it. I could see how it might be interpreted that way. I'm personally not persuaded though. Seems pretty evident to me that several passages have a 3.5 year period (1260 days 42 months, a time and times and half a time) mentioned for the trib, either directly or indirectly e.g, Rev 13:5 (right before 13:7 the scripture you mentioned). And like I said, if that's the case we haven't seen the abomination of desolations or the great trib yet since Jesus said He would return immediately after the trib.

 

[DogLady19]

And like I said, if that's the case we haven't seen the abomination of desolations or the great trib yet since Jesus said He would return immediately after the trib.

Perhaps there is an assumption that the two 3.5 year periods occur together... Perhaps they are two separate 42 month periods with a 2000+ year gap between them...

Since the man-made temple is destroyed, and the believer's body is now the temple of God (1 Cor. 3:16-17 and 2 Cor. 6:16), how do you suppose an antichrist person will set up inside the body of a believer? And whose body will he inhabit? Or do we wait for the old temple to be rebuilt, and would God consider the new building His temple? In order to do that, He would have to no longer use the believer's body as His temple. Where is that in the prophecy?

Or are you also considering that the temple antichrist will possess is the church itself? If so, it indicates that the church will be around for the tribulation period, which is a time of persecution... things that only the believers can experience.

"He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." Daniel 7:25

 

[toknowthetruth]

Perhaps there is an assumption that the two 3.5 year periods occur together... Perhaps they are two separate 42 month periods with a 2000+ year gap between them...

Since the man-made temple is destroyed, and the believer's body is now the temple of God (1 Cor. 3:16-17 and 2 Cor. 6:16), how do you suppose an antichrist person will set up inside the body of a believer? And whose body will he inhabit? Or do we wait for the old temple to be rebuilt, and would God consider the new building His temple? In order to do that, He would have to no longer use the believer's body as His temple. Where is that in the prophecy?

Or are you also considering that the temple antichrist will possess is the church itself? If so, it indicates that the church will be around for the tribulation period, which is a time of persecution... things that only the believers can experience.

"He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." Daniel 7:25

Good questions. I just figure it is what it says it is. The way I read it the AC will orchestrate a 7 year covenant that will allow the Jews to rebuild their temple and bring about what seems to be a period of peace. Then he will break the covenant half way leaving 3.5 years of great trib, at which time he abolishes the daily sacrifice, sets up the image of the beast--a.k.a. the abomination of desolations--in the newly built Jewish temple, and declares himself as God. After 3.5 years of trib comes the rapture, the marriage supper and the wrath of God which includes Armageddon and culminates with Jesus' return with his saints after the marriage supper to defeat the AC and his forces. Then comes the Millennium followed by the destruction of the forces of Gog and Magag. Then God recreates the heaven and the earth and the heavenly city comes down to earth. At this point the saints go out to heal the nations with the leaves of the tree of life. And from what I can tell that's as far as the prophecies go.

 

[DogLady19]

Good questions. I just figure it is what it says it is. The way I read it the AC will orchestrate a 7 year covenant that will allow the Jews to rebuild their temple and bring about what seems to be a period of peace. Then he will break the covenant half way leaving 3.5 years of great trib, at which time he abolishes the daily sacrifice, sets up the image of the beast--a.k.a. the abomination of desolations--in the newly built Jewish temple, and declares himself as God. ...

Other questions:

Who is doing daily sacrifice these days? Daniel 9 is talking about Jesus (the Anointed One), not antichrist, that will make the temple into nothingness and abolish daily sacrifice. God tore the veil and destroyed the Holy of Holies when Jesus breathed His last on the cross... there is no physical place to go for daily sacrifices or Yom Kippur or any other Levitical act of atonement. God doesn't just put His spirit in any man-made chamber that man has declared a "temple of God"... Nowadays, we can boldly come before God for grace and forgiveness. Our bodies are the temple of God. Our high priest has already made the sacrifice that ends all sacrifices. Why would it be an affront to God if some antichrist person declared deity in a new man-made structure?

Also in Daniel 9, it says that Jesus did all His ministry in a matter of a few weeks... This confirms that the time markers of these prophecies are not literal, but figurative, given the literary style in which they are written. We know that Jesus took longer than a few weeks to establish the New Covenant.

 

[toknowthetruth]

Other questions:

Who is doing daily sacrifice these days? Daniel 9 is talking about Jesus (the Anointed One), not antichrist, that will make the temple into nothingness and abolish daily sacrifice. God tore the veil and destroyed the Holy of Holies when Jesus breathed His last on the cross... there is no physical place to go for daily sacrifices or Yom Kippur or any other Levitical act of atonement. God doesn't just put His spirit in any man-made chamber that man has declared a "temple of God"... Nowadays, we can boldly come before God for grace and forgiveness. Our bodies are the temple of God. Our high priest has already made the sacrifice that ends all sacrifices. Why would it be an affront to God if some antichrist person declared deity in a new man-made structure?

Also in Daniel 9, it says that Jesus did all His ministry in a matter of a few weeks... This confirms that the time markers of these prophecies are not literal, but figurative, given the literary style in which they are written. We know that Jesus took longer than a few weeks to establish the New Covenant.

I do believe you can find information online on plans to rebuild the Jewish temple. I think they have pretty much everything that's needed ready as well as the funding for the construction. The only thing holding them back is getting permission to build. That would be where the AC comes in with confirming the covenant. And once it's built they will reinstate the daily sacrifice. Of course it will be just going through the motions without God's presence, but nonetheless it would be happening. If my understanding of the prophecies is correct this is most likely how it will play out. I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong, but things do seem to be moving in that direction.

Regarding the few weeks, I'm sure you're familiar with the fact that the Hebrew word that's translated as week is literally translated as a period of 7. It can be 7 days, 7 years, or a heptad. In this case I believe 7 years is the correct translation and that this is about the AC making a 7 year agreement, which involves rebuilding the temple among other things, and breaking it in the middle which starts the last 3.5 years of his reign, a.k.a. the great tribulation. You can find reference to him breaking the "holy covenant" in Daniel 11:30-31 which specifically mentions the daily sacrifice and the abomination of desolations.

 

[DogLady19]

I do believe you can find information online on plans to rebuild the Jewish temple. I think they have pretty much everything that's needed ready as well as the funding for the construction. The only thing holding them back is getting permission to build. That would be where the AC comes in with confirming the covenant. And once it's built they will reinstate the daily sacrifice. Of course it will be just going through the motions without God's presence, but nonetheless it would be happening. If my understanding of the prophecies is correct this is most likely how it will play out. I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong, but things do seem to be moving in that direction.

Regarding the few weeks, I'm sure you're familiar with the fact that the Hebrew word that's translated as week is literally translated as a period of 7. It can be 7 days, 7 years, or a heptad. In this case I believe 7 years is the correct translation and that this is about the AC making a 7 year agreement, which involves rebuilding the temple among other things, and breaking it in the middle which starts the last 3.5 years of his reign, a.k.a. the great tribulation. You can find reference to him breaking the "holy covenant" in Daniel 11:30-31 which specifically mentions the daily sacrifice and the abomination of desolations.

You can rebuild a Jewish Temple. You cannot rebuild God's Temple. And one would be a fool to think that God will move in just because someone built it. And the sacrifices done inside it will be a waste of time... It will be an abomination to God for people to build the temple. That is clear in Daniel 11:32. The "covenant" in this day and age is God's grace through Jesus' sacrifice that was done once and for all... any sacrifices made after will be by people who are wicked and going against the Covenant. (verse 32 also says that God's people will still be around during this time)

Once again: "The AC" is NOT the one "confirming the covenant"... that is NOT what the scriptures say.

 

[toknowthetruth]

You can rebuild a Jewish Temple. You cannot rebuild God's Temple. And one would be a fool to think that God will move in just because someone built it. And the sacrifices done inside it will be a waste of time... It will be an abomination to God for people to build the temple. That is clear in Daniel 11:32. The "covenant" in this day and age is God's grace through Jesus' sacrifice that was done once and for all... any sacrifices made after will be by people who are wicked and going against the Covenant. (verse 32 also says that God's people will still be around during this time)

Once again: "The AC" is NOT the one "confirming the covenant"... that is NOT what the scriptures say.

That's certainly one way to look at it. I personally don't agree though. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but seems pretty clear to me from scripture that the interpretation I've put forth is much more compelling when you put all the passages of prophecy together. Just don't see how to make sense of it otherwise.

You can take individual pieces of a puzzle and claim they are this or that, but until you put them all together you can't really say for sure what's going on. In the same way, I feel it's essential to interpret Bible prophecy in relation to the whole of the passages and not just individually.

When you compare Dan 9:27 with other related passages it seems quite clear to me that it's talking about the AC. It fits very nicely with the rest of the picture. However, to say it's talking about Jesus doesn't fit the rest of the picture at all as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DogLady19]

That's certainly one way to look at it. I personally don't agree though. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but seems pretty clear to me from scripture that the interpretation I've put forth is much more compelling when you put all the passages of prophecy together. Just don't see how to make sense of it otherwise.

You can take individual pieces of a puzzle and claim they are this or that, but until you put them all together you can't really say for sure what's going on. In the same way, I feel it's essential to interpret Bible prophecy in relation to the whole of the passages and not just individually.

When you compare Dan 9:27 with other related passages it seems quite clear to me that it's talking about the AC. It fits very nicely with the rest of the picture. However, to say it's talking about Jesus doesn't fit the rest of the picture at all as far as I'm concerned.

OK, As I am sure you are aware, the Word of God confirms itself through other passages of scripture. So show me one other place besides Daniel where an antichrist figure is called the "Anointed One"

The word "Christ" means "anointed one"...

Christ confirms the covenant. Antichrist would also be anti-covenant.

Look I'm not saying I'm right about this... I don't think anyone has a true grasp on this. I'm just asking the questions and pointing out those things that concern me most about an interpretation of prophecy.

I'm looking at these prophecies as a whole... and I don't see that there will be some antichrist person who is anointed by God and shares the Gospel with the lost, then removes the Holy Spirit from the souls of all believers, puts them all in a building, starts up then abolishes daily sacrifice for sin, and then desecrates all the believers' souls.

 

[toknowthetruth]

OK, As I am sure you are aware, the Word of God confirms itself through other passages of scripture. So show me one other place besides Daniel where an antichrist figure is called the "Anointed One"

The word "Christ" means "anointed one"...

Christ confirms the covenant. Antichrist would also be anti-covenant.

Look I'm not saying I'm right about this... I don't think anyone has a true grasp on this. I'm just asking the questions and pointing out those things that concern me most about an interpretation of prophecy.

I'm looking at these prophecies as a whole... and I don't see that there will be some antichrist person who is anointed by God and shares the Gospel with the lost, then removes the Holy Spirit from the souls of all believers, puts them all in a building, starts up then abolishes daily sacrifice for sin, and then desecrates all the believers' souls.

I guess we're getting quite a different picture from putting the pieces of the puzzle together. Concerning Dan 9:27 I would put forth a similar question. Besides the scripture in question, where do you find similar passages of Jesus associated with a covenant of a specified time, causing the daily sacrifice to cease, and "for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate"? On the contrary, you find several similarly worded passages associated with the AC. What I would argue is that it fits better with other prophecies that the "he" in this verse is "the prince that shall come", a.k.a. the AC.