99.9999% of all professing Christian's aren't saved

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Grailhunter

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We disagree. There are many times that water baptism is not mentioned during a conversion.

The New Testament cover around 65 years and no matter what it is an abbreviated account of what went on. The fact of the matter is that you will never find Christ or the Apostles say that repentance, baptism, or the Bread and Wine rituals are not required.
You are never going to find a scripture that says that good deeds and charity are not required.
You are never going to find a scripture that says moral conduct in not required. Required not suggested.
But you will find a lot of warnings about not doing what Christ and Apostles told us to do.

You need to be honest with yourself and others and admit that your beliefs are not in tune with the scriptures. You are trying to impose your beliefs over and above the scriptures. You are free to believe whatever you want. My issue is if you are trying to say your beliefs are scriptural.
 

TEXBOW

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The New Testament cover around 65 years and no matter what it is an abbreviated account of what went on. The fact of the matter is that you will never find Christ or the Apostles say that repentance, baptism, or the Bread and Wine rituals are not required.
You are never going to find a scripture that says that good deeds and charity are not required.
You are never going to find a scripture that says moral conduct in not required. Required not suggested.
But you will find a lot of warnings about not doing what Christ and Apostles told us to do.

You need to be honest with yourself and others and admit that your beliefs are not in tune with the scriptures. You are trying to impose your beliefs over and above the scriptures. You are free to believe whatever you want. My issue is if you are trying to say your beliefs are scriptural.
As mentioned we disagree concerning how one finds salvation. How many good deeds? How much charity does it take to earn your salvation? The difference is that all the things you mentioned are fruits of having the Spirit and not how you obtain the Spirit.
 
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TEXBOW

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I keep getting the same thing from you but you say we are not on the same page. You looking through the scriptures to find what you already believe....that is not how you understand Christianity. Are their special circumstances...sure. Do they nullify everything Christ and The Apostles told us to do? No. The Sheep and the Goats....was Yeshua just kidding? Chapter 6 of John and Christ saying no life in you and He not abiding in you or you not abiding in him and not raising you on the last day....was He was just kidding?

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Were Paul and John just kidding. This is what concerns me. You are disregarding the majority of the New Testament to point out scriptures that do not follow the majority of the spirit of the New Testament. I could give you a lot more scriptures but I do not think it would matter....you are only going to take to heart what you want and disregard the others. I have done my part so the rest is up to you.
I'm not sure what you're reading but I agree with all the points you make above. Paul clearly tells us those things that will keep us from our inheritance. My whole point is that you cannot check a box and think you're done in your walk in the Spirit. A born-again Christian is set apart and is known by his or her fruits. If not, you were not born again. You put off the old man and put on the new man. I really do not understand how your coming to your views. It seems we disagree on the requirement for salvation apart from works. I cannot find one scripture that lists out all you mention that needs to be added to faith in order to be born again.
 

Grailhunter

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As mentioned we disagree concerning how one finds salvation.
And this is a very good point....it does not matter if you and I disagree. All that matters is what the scriptures tell you very plainly to do.
How many good deeds? How much charity does it take to earn your salvation?

See and there ya go again....no one tells you that charity earns salvation. Salvation is through Christ...but is Christ going to let you pass on Judgment Day if you openly deny and disobey what He tells you to do. Read the parable of the sheep and the goats the last passage says..."And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Do you think He was kidding or are these just more scriptures that you ignore or deny. Explaining it to me really does not matter, in the end you will be standing before Christ explaining why you did not do what He told you to do. Be good and do good the best you can. Charity and giving to church....give what you can....if that is only a penny....make sure you give it. That way the Lord know how bad off you are.

The difference is that all the things you mentioned are fruits of having the Spirit and not how you obtain the Spirit.

Is the Spirit not giving?

My whole point is that you cannot check a box and think you're done in your walk in the Spirit.

Of course not.....from beginning to end salvation include your lifelong walk with Christ. Stay true to the end.

A born-again Christian is set apart and is known by his or her fruits. If not, you were not born again.

This is a common theological mistake. You didn't do it right. This is why I see do overs.....people being baptized more than once. LOL If you were faking it....I can see it. But if you were sincere than you just messed up in your Christian walk. Repent and be good and do good....no do overs.

It seems we disagree on the requirement for salvation apart from works. I cannot find one scripture that lists out all you mention that needs to be added to faith in order to be born again.

Works! Oh my! There are no works associated with what Christ and the Apostles told us to do in order to be saved. There are no works associated with how Christ and the Apostles told us how to conduct ourselves. Obeying Christ is not considered works! Oh My! I gave you a lot scriptures. Go back and tell me you cannot find them. You cannot find Acts 2:38? Do you think that Peter was kidding? You keep playing dumb thinking it is going to wear me down....not going to work!
 

soldierofchrist174

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I'm not sure what you're reading but I agree with all the points you make above. Paul clearly tells us those things that will keep us from our inheritance. My whole point is that you cannot check a box and think you're done in your walk in the Spirit. A born-again Christian is set apart and is known by his or her fruits. If not, you were not born again. You put off the old man and put on the new man. I really do not understand how your coming to your views. It seems we disagree on the requirement for salvation apart from works. I cannot find one scripture that lists out all you mention that needs to be added to faith in order to be born again.


After God gave me the Holy Spirit, by read the 10 commandments, I found proof that TV, movies, watching sports (violence like football, covet their lives and they are idols), novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list. You must remove all sources of sin.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

You can check if you are God's elect or nonelect, by going to the link.
10 commandment=TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins except sermons
 

TEXBOW

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See and there ya go again....no one tells you that charity earns salvation. Salvation is through Christ...but is Christ going to let you pass on Judgment Day if you openly deny and disobey what He tells you to do. Read the parable of the sheep and the goats the last passage says..."And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Do you think He was kidding or are these just more scriptures that you ignore or deny. Explaining it to me really does not matter, in the end you will be standing before Christ explaining why you did not do what He told you to do. Be good and do good the best you can. Charity and giving to church....give what you can....if that is only a penny....make sure you give it. That way the Lord know how bad off you are.

I'm not sure why you seem to think I do not believe the things you mention are not being obedient to God and not important. As a born-again Christian, you obviously desire to do these things you keep thinking I do not subscribe to. I just believe that you are not saved by those actions, works, or whatever anyone wishes to call them. Romans 10:9-11 tell us exactly how we are saved. You can choose John 5:24 or a number of other verses that speak of being saved. They are all correct, none are false. Paul tells us to work out our salvation which I believe is meaning to live out or demonstrate our salvation in our life. It really does not matter if you or I think a person was never really saved, to begin with or if they fell from grace or a tempory backslider. The prodical son gives us I think a clear way to understand. We must not judge someones salvation as opposed to judging a believers behavior.

I do not see in any post I've made that ignore or deny anything in the parable. You do these things because you are a sheep not because your trying to become a sheep. You have a view of my beliefs that is wrong and I'm puzzled as to what your trying to read into my post. I "think" we disagree on how a person is born again, I follow Romans 10:9-11 that speaks clearly to salvation. A born again believer then begins his or her's walk in faith doing all the things you mentioned, out of love of Christ, out of obedience to Christ, out of following the Holy Spirit which the born again Christian is given at salvation.
 

TEXBOW

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After God gave me the Holy Spirit, by read the 10 commandments, I found proof that TV, movies, watching sports (violence like football, covet their lives and they are idols), novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list. You must remove all sources of sin.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

You can check if you are God's elect or nonelect, by going to the link.
10 commandment=TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins except sermons
Repentance means changing directions in your belief and behaviors, to follow the Holy Spirit given to you upon being born again. If anything causes you to stumble, if the Holy Spirit convicts you to live in a cave and avoid society do so. The scriptures clearly give us a long list of sins, many that you have mentioned and I totally agree with. The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. I do not see how a person can be a witness and avoid society. I caution you not to judge others and to put them in your own shoes. Paul warns of this when discussing the differences between what the Gentile and Jewish Christians believed, meat, etc. The Jew strongly felt that eating certain meat was sinful. The Gentile didn't. The Holy Spirit will convict you of your sins and give you guidence.
 

amigo de christo

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After God gave me the Holy Spirit, by read the 10 commandments, I found proof that TV, movies, watching sports (violence like football, covet their lives and they are idols), novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list. You must remove all sources of sin.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

You can check if you are God's elect or nonelect, by going to the link.
10 commandment=TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins except sermons
Set your affections on things above and not on things here on earth , for you are dead and your life is hid in Christ . Paul warned
Therefore whosoever will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God . James did too .
Let us love the things of GOD and put the entire focus above on HIM .
 
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Marvelloustime

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Set your affections on things above and not on things here on earth , for you are dead and your life is hid in Christ . Paul warned
Therefore whosoever will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God . James did too .
Let us love the things of GOD and put the entire focus above on HIM .
“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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amigo de christo

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“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬
And when HE shall appear the lambs shall Cheer . How about that lovely rhyme . The day lambs look forward too .
 
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Heart2Soul

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The size of the New Jerusalem

Revelation 21:16
"When he measured it, he found it was a square, as wide as it was long. In fact, its length and width and height were each 1,400 miles."

In kilometres that is 2253.082 km Length, Height and Width

So what is the total area in Heaven, let's do the maths.

1400³ miles = 2744000000 miles
2253.082³ km = 11437497020.662 kilometers

So how many souls can fit in Heaven? :D
Wow...that's pretty big!
 

amigo de christo

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Wow...that's pretty big!
yes indeed . A lot of happy lambs will be a singing in the glorious temple .
And i saw no temple therein , for GOD and the LAMB are the TEMPLE of it . HEAVENLY JERUSALEM .
Home of the lambs . JESUS IS OUR HOPE . Let all that breathes air praise the glorious Lord .
 
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Grailhunter

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I'm not sure why you seem to think I do not believe the things you mention are not being obedient to God and not important.

No, like I said you could be great....next to a saint! This is a debate on theology and beliefs.....Just because you are wrong does not mean you are bad....it does not mean you are not going to heaven.....Peter might snicker at you when you go through gates....shoot you might get a better seat. 30,000 denominations and best I can tell most of them have issues.....but I think a lot of them are going to heaven.
This is like texting....a lot is lost in texting.

I was talking to a few on the forum that think that most Christians are not saved or not going to heaven. Yahweh and Yeshua and probably the Holy Spirit came up with this plan of salvation....and this plan required the Son of Yahweh to go through a horrible torture, humiliations, be nailed to a cross. Now I am thinking that being the most intelligent beings in the universe they would come up with a plan with a high success rate considering the sacrifice.

Kind of like a math teacher.....now she may have most of her class fail out....and she could blame the students. But right, wrong, or indifferent....if her class keep failing....the blame will come back to her. There is some of us that are going to fail....but as a whole I thinking that God will have a lot of stellar students. I think the process insures that.

As a born-again Christian, you obviously desire to do these things you keep thinking I do not subscribe to. I just believe that you are not saved by those actions, works, or whatever anyone wishes to call them. Romans 10:9-11 tell us exactly how we are saved. You can choose John 5:24 or a number of other verses that speak of being saved. They are all correct, none are false.

I keep thinking you do not subscribe because you keep giving evidence that you do not agree. Biblical study and theology is complicated for a lot of reasons. Not so for the first thousand Christians that were saved....they did what they were told or they were not in the group of Christians....Christ and the Apostles not real big on back talk. There are reasons that there are collage degrees on theology.

Not seeing the forest for the trees is a common flaw in beliefs. The first and elementary level is to know the scriptures backward and forwards. A lot of Christians get to this first step. They know the scriptures and some debate.....observation and its ramifications is a higher level of intelligence. For five hundred years they kept redefining Christianity..... tens of thousands of denominations and probably millions of church of one beliefs. What level of intelligence does it take to not realize over five hundred years that the process was not working....just splintering Christ's church.

You see it here....people that are knowledgeable of words and sentences in scriptures and know their singular meaning and when they debate they throw scriptures at each other that give proof to their side of the debate....they do not notice or do not realize the ramifications if these scriptures are coming from the same Apostle. Do you think the Apostles are talking in circles? That they are preaching a Gospel of confusion?

Observation.....a higher level of understanding. The first level is knowing the scriptures then you stand back and start studying the primary theme....the purpose....the spirit....the storyline. People will hang on to a couple of scriptures with a death grip and be closed minded as to what the primary theme....the purpose....the spirit and the storyline means. All of that is the overriding meaning of the scriptures. Singular scriptures cannot dominate any of that. You must hate your mother and father to be my disciple. That scripture does not mean to hate your mother and father and it does not nullify the scriptures to honor your mother and father. Higher understanding is the knowledge of the primary theme and spirit of the scriptures. The higher understanding is that no scripture will override the primary theme or spirit of the scriptures. So taking sides is evidence of not understanding.....at times I will watch the debates on this forum and provide each side with the pertinent scriptures for each side and they still do not notice.

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. He came to save us from hell and the devil. God is diametrically opposed to sin and evil.....if you decide to be sinful and evil you are destined for hell. If you do what He said in regarded to the process of salvation and obey you have a reward in heaven. One of the original names for Christianity was the Way....the way is a way of life that will get you to heaven....not a single thought or belief. If you rebel and try to teach Him the Way of salvation....you are likely to pay the price.

The other thing is the answer to why Christ and the Apostles seem to speak to both ends of these debates. It is called the religious literary style of the time period. It was designed to make people think....it is how they wrote religious material. You have to learn that literary style to even understand the singular scriptures.

I "think" we disagree on how a person is born again,
Again and again it does not matter if we agree.....what did Christ and the Apostles say about being saved. Is it that you read but you cannot understand? I do not know what your problems is but the scriptures are clear.
 
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TEXBOW

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No, like I said you could be great....next to a saint! This is a debate on theology and beliefs.....Just because you are wrong does not mean you are bad....it does not mean you are not going to heaven.....Peter might snicker at you when you go through gates....shoot you might get a better seat. 30,000 denominations and best I can tell most of them have issues.....but I think a lot of them are going to heaven.
This is like texting....a lot is lost in texting.

I was talking to a few on the forum that think that most Christians are not saved or not going to heaven. Yahweh and Yeshua and probably the Holy Spirit came up with this plan of salvation....and this plan required the Son of Yahweh to go through a horrible torture, humiliations, be nailed to a cross. Now I am thinking that being the most intelligent beings in the universe they would come up with a plan with a high success rate considering the sacrifice.

Kind of like a math teacher.....now she may have most of her class fail out....and she could blame the students. But right, wrong, or indifferent....if her class keep failing....the blame will come back to her. There is some of us that are going to fail....but as a whole I thinking that God will have a lot of stellar students. I think the process insures that.



I keep thinking you do not subscribe because you keep giving evidence that you do not agree. Biblical study and theology is complicated for a lot of reasons. Not so for the first thousand Christians that were saved....they did what they were told or they were not in the group of Christians....Christ and the Apostles not real big on back talk. There are reasons that there are collage degrees on theology.

Not seeing the forest for the trees is a common flaw in beliefs. The first and elementary level is to know the scriptures backward and forwards. A lot of Christians get to this first step. They know the scriptures and some debate.....observation and its ramifications is a higher level of intelligence. For five hundred years they kept redefining Christianity..... tens of thousands of denominations and probably millions of church of one beliefs. What level of intelligence does it take to not realize over five hundred years that the process was not working....just splintering Christ's church.

You see it here....people that are knowledgeable of words and sentences in scriptures and know their singular meaning and when they debate they throw scriptures at each other that give proof to their side of the debate....they do not notice or do not realize the ramifications if these scriptures are coming from the same Apostle. Do you think the Apostles are talking in circles? That they are preaching a Gospel of confusion?

Observation.....a higher level of understanding. The first level is knowing the scriptures then you stand back and start studying the primary theme....the purpose....the spirit....the storyline. People will hang on to a couple of scriptures with a death grip and be closed minded as to what the primary theme....the purpose....the spirit and the storyline means. All of that is the overriding meaning of the scriptures. Singular scriptures cannot dominate any of that. You must hate your mother and father to be my disciple. That scripture does not mean to hate your mother and father and it does not nullify the scriptures to honor your mother and father. Higher understanding is the knowledge of the primary theme and spirit of the scriptures. The higher understanding is that no scripture will override the primary theme or spirit of the scriptures. So taking sides is evidence of not understanding.....at times I will watch the debates on this forum and provide each side with the pertinent scriptures for each side and they still do not notice.

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. He came to save us from hell and the devil. God is diametrically opposed to sin and evil.....if you decide to be sinful and evil you are destined for hell. If you do what He said in regarded to the process of salvation and obey you have a reward in heaven. One of the original names for Christianity was the Way....the way is a way of life that will get you to heaven....not a single thought or belief. If you rebel and try to teach Him the Way of salvation....you are likely to pay the price.

The other thing is the answer to why Christ and the Apostles seem to speak to both ends of these debates. It is called the religious literary style of the time period. It was designed to make people think....it is how they wrote religious material. You have to learn that literary style to even understand the singular scriptures.


Again and again it does not matter if we agree.....what did Christ and the Apostles say about being saved. Is it that you read but you cannot understand? I do not know what your problems is but the scriptures are clear.
Yes, Romans 10:9-13 is very clear.
 

rockytopva

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Like the Romans 10 reference….

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10:9-10

So… Where do we go from there?

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. - 2 Peter 3
 
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