A 1,000 Year Millennium On This Earth?

[Enoch111]

I tend to agree.

Don't be too quick to agree until you have personally studied out the matter of the establishment of of a real, literal, visible Kingdom of God in earth.

How do you deal with the "binding of Satan"?

How do you deal with anything pertaining to the spiritual world and the spirit realm? If you are a Christian you simply believe God's revelation. Not everything will be easy to understand, and that too is stated in Scripture

I know you say it's within the spiritual world, and I'm not disagreeing, but one must still address the notion that Satan is, in some shape of form, restricted within this time frame.

Why would anyone have a problem with accepting the fact that Satan is literally bound and in prison for 1,000 years. Do you know that God has had evil angels in prison since the time of Noah, and they are awaiting their judgment?

If the Bible repeats "a (the ) thousand years" six times in seven verses, there is nothing metaphorical or allegorical about this. It means exactly what it says, because there are a number of events which are tied together with this thousand-year period (the Millennium).

We know from many passages in both the OT and NT that Christ will return to earth "with power and great glory" to deal with His enemies and also to establish His Kingdom on earth. This Millennium is the precursor to the eternal Kingdom of God on earth, with redeemed and restored Israel as well as saved nations surrounding Israel.

ISAIAH 11
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

 

[Truth7t7]

Don't be too quick to agree until you have personally studied out the matter of the establishment of of a real, literal, visible Kingdom of God in earth.

You might just show the forum where your

"Real" "Literal" "Visible"

Kingdom On Earth is below?

There is no kingdom, with living mortal humans present, "NONE"!

A Man Made "Fairy Tale"!

I see red riding hood, the big bad wolf and the three little pigs toooo don't you?

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Naomi25]

Don't be too quick to agree until you have personally studied out the matter of the establishment of of a real, literal, visible Kingdom of God in earth.

How do you know that I haven't? What makes you think that my "agreeing" comes only from ill-informed, casual glances at scripture?

How do you deal with anything pertaining to the spiritual world and the spirit realm? If you are a Christian you simply believe God's revelation. Not everything will be easy to understand, and that too is stated in Scripture

"Simply believe God's revelation?" Let's remember that God makes it clear he wants us to understand why he makes things so...not just that he has. He explains how he has extended grace to us, how we are to accept it, how humanity misses it in their sin, how Christ will come again. Not just that these thing will happen...but how. And if he takes the time to tell us these things, then it behooves us to take the time to study them and learn the why.
Therefore, I don't think the question I posed was outrageous, do you? It doesn't even mean I don't have an opinion formed myself...it just means I'm keen to understand what others think.

Why would anyone have a problem with accepting the fact that Satan is literally bound and in prison for 1,000 years. Do you know that God has had evil angels in prison since the time of Noah, and they are awaiting their judgment?

I don't have a problem with it. The OP is addressing the idea of Amillennialism. Which basically states that Satan is bound NOW. And a lot of people have a problem with the idea of saying that Satan is "bound" now, because of all the evil that we see around us. That is what I was referring to.

If the Bible repeats "a (the ) thousand years" six times in seven verses, there is nothing metaphorical or allegorical about this. It means exactly what it says, because there are a number of events which are tied together with this thousand-year period (the Millennium).

Could the 1000 years be a literal 1000 years? Sure. So, I would never get dogmatic about it. But I do ask why, in a book that is packed with symbolism, in which numbers themselves are used mostly as symbols, would we suddenly decide that we must say this particular number must be exact? Especially when we see elsewhere in scripture the number '1000' is also used symbolically. "The Lord owns the cattle on a thousand hills!" Really? Just 1000? So, the 1001 hill, those cattle he doesn't own? No...the point is to say "he owns everything". 1000 is often used as a number to signify perfect fullness, completeness. And they get that from other perfect numbers, also used symbolically. 7 (which is a sacred number...7 days of creation, 7 churches in the Revelation etc.) + 3 (also sacred number of the Trinity), which is 10, the number of holy perfection... it's then cubed: 10x10x10 (3 times) = 1000, which is absolute perfection! It sounds a bit bogus, but look at how God uses numbers in the measurements of his Holy Temple. In how he requires his people to act at certain times (Jericho), and yes...all throughout Revelation. It is not unusual or odd for God to use numbers this way, to symbolize an idea. In this case, his Millennium will go for a perfect amount of time. When it is ended, the time will be absolute, all his purposes complete and fulfilled. 1000 is his way of telling us that.

We know from many passages in both the OT and NT that Christ will return to earth "with power and great glory" to deal with His enemies and also to establish His Kingdom on earth. This Millennium is the precursor to the eternal Kingdom of God on earth, with redeemed and restored Israel as well as saved nations surrounding Israel.

ISAIAH 11
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Yes...but there is nothing to say that said judgement doesn't occur at Christ's second coming, and then we proceed into the new heavens and earth. I truly cannot see any of these OT passages speaking of an earthly millennial kingdom. I see them using earthly imagery to try and paint a picture of what this paradise might be like. In a world where so many people suffer and die, it is so "pie in the sky" to say "death will be no more". Instead they say "the person who dies at 100 will be considered cursed". Does that mean they will die at 100? Not really what they said, is it? I know people will often say, "if they mean 'people will never die, why don't they just say it?'". Well....that's true. But we could also say that when Jesus said "our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep"...why didn't he just say "he died"?
Sometimes people use other language tropes for a reason....

 

[Enoch111]

But I do ask why, in a book that is packed with symbolism, in which numbers themselves are used mostly as symbols, would we suddenly decide that we must say this particular number must be exact?

Numbers used mostly as symbols? Certainly not in Revelation. Seven churches, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls, 144,000 Israelities, 42 months, 2 witnesses, are "mostly symbolic"? Not really. There is not a single symbolic number in Revelation, including 1,000 years.

 

[Naomi25]

Numbers used mostly as symbols? Certainly not in Revelation. Seven churches, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls, 144,000 Israelities, 42 months, 2 witnesses, are "mostly symbolic"? Not really. There is not a single symbolic number in Revelation, including 1,000 years.

Not a single symbolic number in Revelation? In the first chapter we see a reference to the 'seven spirits before the throne'. Now...either we must start rearranging our doctrines about the Trinity and the Holy Spirit, or we see this as a symbol to recognize the perfect completion of the Holy Spirit. 'Perfect completion' being what 7 often stands for, that's why the Lamb has seven horns and seven eyes. You don't actually think Jesus is really a Lamb, I'm assuming...you get that's a symbol. And the seven horns and seven eyes are symbols too. Symbols that Christ is all seeing and all powerful. He rules all and knows all. He is, in fact, God.

The seven Churches that get the letters from Christ? Are they actual Churches who received these letters? Sure. But is that all? No. By sending out seven letters (even though at this point Jesus had many, many more Churches dotted over the land which obviously had issues and persecutions as well) he symbolized that these letters were meant for all the Churches of the world. You see how that works? It doesn't work to just say "those letters where meant for those 7 churches, and that's it." We need to ask 'why 7?' and 'why those 7?' Because symbolically, those 7 stood for all.

This is compounded when Jesus explains that he is standing among seven lamp stands and holding seven stars; those lamp stands being symbols for the churches, the stars being symbols for the angels of the churches. Are we then to assume, if numbers have to strictly mean what they mean, that only these seven churches are legit? That only those seven get a lamp stand and an angel? That all the other churches of that time did not? That all the other churches since then have not? That only seven at a time do? Of course not! Seven is symbolic as well! Symbolic of completeness! All of Christ's Churches have a lamp stand and an angel! We belong to him, so of course we do!

So...you can see...clearly...clearly numbers are indeed used symbolically. You simply cannot deny that they are. Are they always used that way? No...not every time. But a lot of the time. And in this manner, you simply cannot wave your hand and dismiss the option that the 1000 years might also be used in this manner.

 

[Truth7t7]

Not a single symbolic number in Revelation? In the first chapter we see a reference to the 'seven spirits before the throne'. Now...either we must start rearranging our doctrines about the Trinity and the Holy Spirit, or we see this as a symbol to recognize the perfect completion of the Holy Spirit. 'Perfect completion' being what 7 often stands for, that's why the Lamb has seven horns and seven eyes. You don't actually think Jesus is really a Lamb, I'm assuming...you get that's a symbol. And the seven horns and seven eyes are symbols too. Symbols that Christ is all seeing and all powerful. He rules all and knows all. He is, in fact, God.

The seven Churches that get the letters from Christ? Are they actual Churches who received these letters? Sure. But is that all? No. By sending out seven letters (even though at this point Jesus had many, many more Churches dotted over the land which obviously had issues and persecutions as well) he symbolized that these letters were meant for all the Churches of the world. You see how that works? It doesn't work to just say "those letters where meant for those 7 churches, and that's it." We need to ask 'why 7?' and 'why those 7?' Because symbolically, those 7 stood for all.

This is compounded when Jesus explains that he is standing among seven lamp stands and holding seven stars; those lamp stands being symbols for the churches, the stars being symbols for the angels of the churches. Are we then to assume, if numbers have to strictly mean what they mean, that only these seven churches are legit? That only those seven get a lamp stand and an angel? That all the other churches of that time did not? That all the other churches since then have not? That only seven at a time do? Of course not! Seven is symbolic as well! Symbolic of completeness! All of Christ's Churches have a lamp stand and an angel! We belong to him, so of course we do!

So...you can see...clearly...clearly numbers are indeed used symbolically. You simply cannot deny that they are. Are they always used that way? No...not every time. But a lot of the time. And in this manner, you simply cannot wave your hand and dismiss the option that the 1000 years might also be used in this manner.

100% correct, 1000 was used as a symbolic representation of the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, as stated time and again, and again.

There is no earthly Kingdom seen with mortal humans present in Revelation 20:1-6, not even a hint, 100% spiritual realm of the Lord.

They will continue to claim a mortal earthy kingdom, with humans present on this earth, it ain't there!

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual!

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Phoneman777]

1. As far as a future Literal 1000 year millennium on this earth, no such thing in the holy bible.
   
   When Jesus returns, it will be in fire and "Final Judgment", dissolvong this earth by his fire, 2 Peter 3:10, Malachi 3:2, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:29-30, Nahum 1:5
   
   Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lords spiritual realm, with spiritual beings, there is no physical earthly kingdom seen or represented whatsoever.
   
   Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 100% spiritual world, no literal earthly kingdom is seen.
   
   Revelation 20 KJV
   20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
   2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
   3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
   4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
   5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
   6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
   
   Many are taught that Matthew 25:31-46 sheep/goat judgment takes place to judge those worthy to enter a millennial kingdom on this earth?
   
   False, as this is the "Final Judgment"
   As verse 41 shows the wicked are judged to the "eternal lake of fire", and verse 46 shows the righteous obtain "eternal life".
   
   Matthew 25:31-46KJV
   31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
   32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
   33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
   34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
   35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
   36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
   37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
   38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
   39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
   40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
   41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
   42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
   43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
   44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
   45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
   46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I agree that the 1,000 year millennium is NOT on this Earth - the problem with popular eschatological ideas is that there's always activity going on down here, although several times the Earth is depicted as desolate, empty, devoid of life. Unfortunately, since these verses don't fit with those popular ideas, some attribute these verses to a "pre-Edenic" creation that was destroyed before God remade the Creation with Adam and Eve. No, those verse apply to a future state of the Earth after the righteous are caught up to Jesus at His Second Coming and they journey to heaven to spend the 1,000 years there, after the wicked all drop dead in there tracks all over the planet.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree that the 1,000 year millennium is NOT on this Earth - the problem with popular eschatological ideas is that there's always activity going on down here, although several times the Earth is depicted as desolate, empty, devoid of life. Unfortunately, since these verses don't fit with those popular ideas, some attribute these verses to a "pre-Edenic" creation that was destroyed before God remade the Creation with Adam and Eve. No, those verse apply to a future state of the Earth after the righteous are caught up to Jesus at His Second Coming and they journey to heaven to spend the 1,000 years there, after the wicked all drop dead in there tracks all over the planet.

The 1000 years represents the complete time of the Church age, from the time of Jesus Christ To The Second Coming, 1000 Is Symbolic Not Literal.

Jesus Returns In Fire, Dissolving This Earth, As The New Heaven, Earth, And Jerusalem Are Revealed.

When Jesus Christ Return's, It's Final Judgment By Fire, No Mortal Human Survives.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 13:40KJV
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[Naomi25]

100% correct, 1000 was used as a symbolic representation of the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, as stated time and again, and again.

There is no earthly Kingdom seen with mortal humans present in Revelation 20:1-6, not even a hint, 100% spiritual realm of the Lord.

They will continue to claim a mortal earthy kingdom, with humans present on this earth, it ain't there!

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual!

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I do understand why some people get a little 'squirrely' when confronted with 'spiritual realities' rather than actual ones. Because, sure, there are plenty of liberals out there who use it to wave away truths in the bible. And that's wrong.
However, one mustn't back away from the fact that there is a very real spiritual world that exists along side ours. What do they imagine that spiritual world is doing while we live our lives? Nothing? No! God sits on his throne! Jesus is alongside him, ruling and reigning. Those who have died a martyrs death are in his presence even now, crying out "how long, O Lord?".
These things are happening now. So why is it so hard or frightening or threatening to think that Revelation is describing this wonderful reality, I wonder?

 

[Enoch111]

In the first chapter we see a reference to the 'seven spirits before the throne'.

So we simply take that as seven spirits. The number 7 is not symbolic but literal, since there are in fact seven aspects of the Holy Spirit described in Isaiah 11:2-3.

And the seven horns and seven eyes are symbols too.

Again, the number 7 is not symbolic but literal, and presents seven aspects of the power and knowledge of Christ, as related to Isa 11:2-3

The seven Churches that get the letters from Christ? Are they actual Churches who received these letters? Sure. But is that all? No.

For our purposes, that is all. They are not six and they are not eight. Those were seven actual churches in Asia Minor (now Turkey).

This is compounded when Jesus explains that he is standing among seven lamp stands and holding seven stars; those lamp stands being symbols for the churches, the stars being symbols for the angels of the churches.

Exactly. And those symbols are actually explained. But the number 7 is not symbolic but literal. It is not 700, 7000, or 7000000.

As I already said there is not a single NUMBER that is symbolic. Therefore allegorizing or spiritualizing 1,000 (the Millennium) is absolute nonsense, and should be rejected out of hand. This whole business of Amillennialism was more political than spiritual. It was the Catholic Augustine who promoted the idea that the Millennium had already begun. But as we can see all around us, that is pure fantasy. But Roman Catholicism and Amillennialism go hand in hand, and unfortunately the Reformers never bothered to carefully examine the teachings of Augustine.

4. Amillenniallism from Augustine to Modern Times

 

[Naomi25]

So we simply take that as seven spirits. The number 7 is not symbolic but literal, since there are in fact seven aspects of the Holy Spirit described in Isaiah 11:2-3.

Again, the number 7 is not symbolic but literal, and presents seven aspects of the power and knowledge of Christ, as related to Isa 11:2-3

"Presents 7 aspects of"....in other words, symbolizes.

For our purposes, that is all. They are not six and they are not eight. Those were seven actual churches in Asia Minor (now Turkey).

That's like saying "Christ died on the cross, and for our purposes that is all". And then you don't look past that event, right then and there to see what his death means for every single Christian after that time and date. It's short sighted and not what God intends for us to take away from the text. And we can know this because of the numbers used. He didn't use 2 Churches, or 15 Churches, he used 7. Look back throughout the whole of the bible and do a study on how often the number 7 is used and what it is used for. Don't take my word for it, you do it.

Exactly. And those symbols are actually explained. But the number 7 is not symbolic but literal. It is not 700, 7000, or 7000000.

As I already said there is not a single NUMBER that is symbolic. Therefore allegorizing or spiritualizing 1,000 (the Millennium) is absolute nonsense, and should be rejected out of hand. This whole business of Amillennialism was more political than spiritual. It was the Catholic Augustine who promoted the idea that the Millennium had already begun. But as we can see all around us, that is pure fantasy. But Roman Catholicism and Amillennialism go hand in hand, and unfortunately the Reformers never bothered to carefully examine the teachings of Augustine.

4. Amillenniallism from Augustine to Modern Times

Okay, so, the fact that you need to go "argh, Amillennialism is political and a baddness of the Catholic Church"...tells me that 1: you don't really know what it is that Amil's believe. And 2: no matter how reasonable or...you know...actual, my points are, I'm unlikely to get through to you.
So, I'm just going to chuckle to myself over the fact that there cannot, apparently, be a "single number that is symbolic" in Revelation, and let the conversation drop.

 

[Truth7t7]

I do understand why some people get a little 'squirrely' when confronted with 'spiritual realities' rather than actual ones. Because, sure, there are plenty of liberals out there who use it to wave away truths in the bible. And that's wrong.
However, one mustn't back away from the fact that there is a very real spiritual world that exists along side ours. What do they imagine that spiritual world is doing while we live our lives? Nothing? No! God sits on his throne! Jesus is alongside him, ruling and reigning. Those who have died a martyrs death are in his presence even now, crying out "how long, O Lord?".
These things are happening now. So why is it so hard or frightening or threatening to think that Revelation is describing this wonderful reality, I wonder?

Naomi your 100% correct and see the truth, the souls are crying presently, Jesus Is presently ruling, the thousand years symbolic is taking place now.

The Spiritual world created the physical world we live in, crazy but true!

Dispensationalism in Christian Zionism want desperately a kingdom for the Jews, to have a temple in Jerusalem for 1000 years, sacrificing goats and Lambs on the temple altar, as Jesus sits on the throne watching.

Yes this is what they teach and believe, and they have thousand's following this garbage, 100% deception.

Fact: Jesus Returns Immediately after the future tribulation Matthew 24:29-31, the resurrection and final judgment of all takes place John 5:28-29, as this existing heaven and earth is dissolved by fire 2 Peter 3:10-13, as the New Heaven, Earth, And Jerusalem Are Revealed Revelation 20:1-5?

All "In The Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Corinthians 15:51-54