A Building , an habitation for God not made with hands

[VictoryinJesus]

Revisiting 2 Corinthians 5:1-5

For we have seen if the tent which is our dwelling is torn; destroyed or overthrown
Matthew 16:17-18 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed are you, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in heaven. [18] And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (The habitation of God no man is able to tear, destroy or overthrow that which is built without hands of God) (Acts 5-38-39) leave these men along because if this work be of God then nothing can overthrow it.

IF the tent be torn
Mark 15:34-38 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why have you entangled me? And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calls Elias. And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Leave him alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down. And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the Spirit. And the veil of the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom.

IF the tent “building” be torn
we have a building from God, a dwelling from God where two …that which was torn is made One. Go read it where God makes of two One new man in Christ. Significant (Imo) because of what is read at funerals of seasons and times for everything …even a time to tear and a time to sew.

IF this tent be torn
We have a building Ephesians 2:21-22 In whom allll the building fitly framed together grows unto an holy temple(habitation) in the Lord: [22] In whom you also are builded (sewn, fitly framed, jointed) together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

We have a building from God, a dwelling not made with hands, age long in heavens. Which heavens sing a joyful song.

For indeed in this [house] we groan.
Longing to be clothed —to put on a habitation from heaven.

If indeed seeing unless we having put it on, to not be found naked. (Poorly clothed).
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Not that we be cast off
Or not that we be cast away age-long
But take off the old way of strife, debates, murder, hatred and put on the New which is created in His likeness: mercy, forgiveness, patience, peace and joy. Indeed seeing that unless we having put it on, to not be found naked (poorly clothed) but instead clothed with the New Man given of God unto Life.

Indeed while we are in this tent…torn in two
We do groan being weighed down because we do not wish to be put off or to be cast off.

but put on Christ.
In order, so that
What was subject to death..Hebrews 2:15-18
[And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
What was subject to death
Will be swallowed up by Life.
1 Corinthians 15:53-54 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. [54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Life is in the New man?
Logos having life in itself and communicating it to others. The Word of Life which we have gazed upon and the hands of us have handled (deceitfully or with care?)

Indeed while we are in this tent…torn in two
We do groan being weighed down because we do not wish to be put off or to be casted off.
but to put on Christ.
In order, so that
What was subject to death
Will be swallowed up by Life.
Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it. (That He will take away or remove …as in He takes away tears…not as in robbery is His “to take away from” or “to remove from” as to rob but to give …consider OT of that which was removed from the fire, an iron plucked out from the fire(as is said torment)…to “remove” or “take away” and I will clothe”
Zechariah 3:2-4 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? [3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

 

[Davy]

That 'spiritualizing' of Scripture will be condemned. Doing that shows error against God's Word and confusion away from His Truth.

 

[MatthewG]

Cool.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That 'spiritualizing' of Scripture will be condemned. Doing that shows error against God's Word and confusion away from His Truth.

You said “That spiritualizing’ of Scripture will be condemned. Doing that shows error against God’s Word and confusion away from His Truth.”

What does John 6:48-53 say to you? ‘I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.’

 

[Robert Gwin]

Revisiting 2 Corinthians 5:1-5

For we have seen if the tent which is our dwelling is torn; destroyed or overthrown
Matthew 16:17-18 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed are you, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in heaven. [18] And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (The habitation of God no man is able to tear, destroy or overthrow that which is built without hands of God) (Acts 5-38-39) leave these men along because if this work be of God then nothing can overthrow it.

IF the tent be torn
Mark 15:34-38 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why have you entangled me? And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calls Elias. And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Leave him alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down. And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the Spirit. And the veil of the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom.

IF the tent “building” be torn
we have a building from God, a dwelling from God where two …that which was torn is made One. Go read it where God makes of two One new man in Christ. Significant (Imo) because of what is read at funerals of seasons and times for everything …even a time to tear and a time to sew.

IF this tent be torn
We have a building Ephesians 2:21-22 In whom allll the building fitly framed together grows unto an holy temple(habitation) in the Lord: [22] In whom you also are builded (sewn, fitly framed, jointed) together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

We have a building from God, a dwelling not made with hands, age long in heavens. Which heavens sing a joyful song.

For indeed in this [house] we groan.
Longing to be clothed —to put on a habitation from heaven.

If indeed seeing unless we having put it on, to not be found naked. (Poorly clothed).
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Not that we be cast off
Or not that we be cast away age-long
But take off the old way of strife, debates, murder, hatred and put on the New which is created in His likeness: mercy, forgiveness, patience, peace and joy. Indeed seeing that unless we having put it on, to not be found naked (poorly clothed) but instead clothed with the New Man given of God unto Life.

Indeed while we are in this tent…torn in two
We do groan being weighed down because we do not wish to be put off or to be cast off.

but put on Christ.
In order, so that
What was subject to death..Hebrews 2:15-18
[And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
What was subject to death
Will be swallowed up by Life.
1 Corinthians 15:53-54 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. [54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Life is in the New man?
Logos having life in itself and communicating it to others. The Word of Life which we have gazed upon and the hands of us have handled (deceitfully or with care?)

Indeed while we are in this tent…torn in two
We do groan being weighed down because we do not wish to be put off or to be casted off.
but to put on Christ.
In order, so that
What was subject to death
Will be swallowed up by Life.
Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it. (That He will take away or remove …as in He takes away tears…not as in robbery is His “to take away from” or “to remove from” as to rob but to give …consider OT of that which was removed from the fire, an iron plucked out from the fire(as is said torment)…to “remove” or “take away” and I will clothe”
Zechariah 3:2-4 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? [3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

That temple not made with hands is eternal Vicky. Praise to you for bringing that out maam.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That temple not made with hands is eternal Vicky. Praise to you for bringing that out maam.

I prefer to think it is not me. Yesterday in reading over the passages concerning that temple not made with hands …it gave me hope and purpose to get through the day. Same this morning with Mark 2:21-25 No man also sews a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up takes away from the old, and the rent is made worse. [22] And no man puts new wine into old bottles: else the new wine does burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles. [23] And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. [24] And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? [25] And he said unto them, Have you never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungry, he, and they that were with him?

Helpful and hopeful is the above to me. Others warn to not over spiritualize. Strangely it isn’t the above about wine and new bottles that as some would warn against “Spirit” of “don’t you dare spiritualize it or be condemned” ..doesn’t Jesus Christ Spiritualize the last part when the Pharisee condemned that the disciples plucked ears of (wheat)corn because they were hungry? Jesus speaks to the Pharisees (taking it to a whole new level) comparing the disciples’ plucking the ears of (wheat)corn when hungry to David entering the House of God and eating the shewbread and giving to those with him that were also hungry. if that isn’t “Spirit” speaking there concerning the disciples eating what the Pharisees squabbled was forbidden … then I don’t know what is Spirit. Because Christ referring …out of context I might add…to His disciples plucking corn and eating with reference to David entering into the House of God to eat shewbread and give to those with David …how much More and Greater Davids’ entering in to “that made with hands” is Hebrews 9:24
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Honestly I do think I would skip over that last part and only focus on the wine bottle parable if I were to listen to men screaming “out of context” …I think I would miss and overlook so much if they had their way about it. Jesus refers back to David out of context but(Imo) putting it into a better context. It is the small things in His word sometimes that leap out and share something comforting I think. Those overlooked and ignored like His speaking to the Pharisees…didn’t David eat the shewbread and give to those with him? Well one greater than David is here! Didn’t he tell them elsewhere “the Lord of the Sabbath”?

Some may say that is nothing new concerning the connection between David entering in to that made with hands and Christ entering in to that made without hands …how the connection is and has been obvious to them. Point is that connection wouldn’t be obvious to them unless they “spiritualize” …or that is my opinion.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I prefer to think it is not me. Yesterday in reading over the passages concerning that temple not made with hands …it gave me hope and purpose to get through the day. Same this morning with Mark 2:21-25 No man also sews a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up takes away from the old, and the rent is made worse. [22] And no man puts new wine into old bottles: else the new wine does burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles. [23] And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. [24] And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? [25] And he said unto them, Have you never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungry, he, and they that were with him?

Helpful and hopeful is the above to me. Others warn to not over spiritualize. Strangely it isn’t the above about wine and new bottles that as some would warn against “Spirit” of “don’t you dare spiritualize it or be condemned” ..doesn’t Jesus Christ Spiritualize the last part when the Pharisee condemned that the disciples plucked ears of (wheat)corn because they were hungry? Jesus speaks to the Pharisees (taking it to a whole new level) comparing the disciples’ plucking the ears of (wheat)corn when hungry to David entering the House of God and eating the shewbread and giving to those with him that were also hungry. if that isn’t “Spirit” speaking there concerning the disciples eating what the Pharisees squabbled was forbidden … then I don’t know what is Spirit. Because Christ referring …out of context I might add…to His disciples plucking corn and eating with reference to David entering into the House of God to eat shewbread and give to those with David …how much More and Greater Davids’ entering in to “that made with hands” is Hebrews 9:24
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Honestly I do think I would skip over that last part and only focus on the wine bottle parable if I were to listen to men screaming “out of context” …I think I would miss and overlook so much if they had their way about it. Jesus refers back to David out of context but(Imo) putting it into a better context. It is the small things in His word sometimes that leap out and share something comforting I think. Those overlooked and ignored like His speaking to the Pharisees…didn’t David eat the shewbread and give to those with him? Well one greater than David is here! Didn’t he tell them elsewhere “the Lord of the Sabbath”?

Some may say that is nothing new concerning the connection between David entering in to that made with hands and Christ entering in to that made without hands …how the connection is and has been obvious to them. Point is that connection wouldn’t be obvious to them unless they “spiritualize” …or that is my opinion.

The wine into bottle illustration is interesting Vicky, and hard to discern how it applies to make Jesus' point there. Do you know why the bottles break when new wine is installed? (related to the patch pulling away also) Why did Jesus say that to them?

 

[Davy]

You said “That spiritualizing’ of Scripture will be condemned. Doing that shows error against God’s Word and confusion away from His Truth.”

What does John 6:48-53 say to you? ‘I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.’

Oh, you went all over the world with trying to use unrelated Bible Scripture which leaves the context of the Bible chapters where those verses appear, and you did that in attempting to formulate a doctrine that isn't even written... anywhere in God's Word! By that you are teaching 'your own' word, and not God's Word.

I will explain further in my next post.

 

[Davy]

Revisiting 2 Corinthians 5:1-5

For we have seen if the tent which is our dwelling is torn; destroyed or overthrown
Matthew 16:17-18 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed are you, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in heaven. [18] And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (The habitation of God no man is able to tear, destroy or overthrow that which is built without hands of God) (Acts 5-38-39) leave these men along because if this work be of God then nothing can overthrow it.

The idea Paul is covering in 2 Cor.5:1-5 is about our flesh body vs. our heavenly body. If our flesh body were suddenly destroyed, we still have a body from God not made with hands. That means non-flesh. Now since one is supposed... to understand 1 Cor.15 before they got to this point, Paul is pointing to the "spiritual body" he taught being that body from God, not made with hands. So that is NOT to be turned in a SPIRITUALIZATION nor man's philosophy. Paul is speaking in LITERAL terms, REALITY, GOD'S SCIENCE of how He made us, even if one wanted to call it that.

So what does it mean when some who does NOT... understand those literal things Paul is talking about while He was using simple metaphor? It means they tend to want to 'spiritualize' it, or turn it into some philosophical message away from the actual context of the Scripture.

And then when you continue that 'spiritualization' trying to bring in support of other Scripture for 'your idea', you leave the actual Bible context again, and again.

Now just because you may have learned how to do that 'spiritualizing' of Scripture from some preacher, because there are many that do that very thing because God did not give His Word to them, that does not mean it's OK for us to do it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The wine into bottle illustration is interesting Vicky, and hard to discern how it applies to make Jesus' point there. Do you know why the bottles break when new wine is installed? (related to the patch pulling away also) Why did Jesus say that to them?

It is hard to discern how it applies to make Jesus’ point there. Similar to purge out the old leaven of malice and wickedness that you may be a new lump (refers to, a “whole”, body yeah?) whose body? I’m not sure but to me the wine skins or “bottles” here also speak of not all flesh is the same in reference to that which is Spiritual and that which is carnal. is all “earth” evil when considering “a new earth” or is there a distinction between carnality (animal or beast) and the New man. Point is I’m not suggesting “earth” is wickedness but to me it says “carnality” is what destroys “earth” which He speaks of creating heaven and earth Anew.

You asked “Do you know why the bottles break when new wine is installed? (related to the patch pulling away also) Why did Jesus say that to them?”

Maybe for the same reason he warned them that the house having been swept seven more evil spirits return finding “it empty” and the last state is worse than the first. Or all the times Jesus said one of the most debated things “go and sin no more unless something worse come upon you.” …”Do you know why the bottles break when new wine is installed?

To me why do the bottles break when the new wine is installed? The patch pulling away? …is because of you don’t throw a rag (Peter 2:16) (1 Thessalonians 2:5) on an old cloak; for the fullness and filing up, pulls away from the outer cloak and the division comes into being and is made worse. Or do people cast young wine into a leather bottle which breaks apart and the wines pours out and the bottles are destroyed? Strange though this is said to be the future of coming Armageddon where the bottles…earthen vessels are to be taken and destroyed. To me though the division is made worse , the patch pulling away, and both are destroyed is maybe Jesus’ point to the religious leaders of that time. And for our observance today that fresh wine is put into bottles (Job 33:25) and “both” are “preserved”(kept close) (Luke 17:33). How does what Jesus’ said to them concerning the bottle burst relate to the verses on perseverance of Life?

Question: does all the theology and religion make the division worse? Does all the theological differences and debates and squabbling make the tear worse? Who said it would? Maybe that was Jesus’ point to them? To Look long and hard at the fruits? Made worse or better?

yes, to me the bottles parable and the patch which pulls away and the division is made worse speaks of “agreement” and “disagreement”; also “made better” or “made worse”
1 Corinthians 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that you come together not for the better, but for the worse.

the bottles parable and the patch which pulls away and the division is made worse speaks of “agreement” and “disagreement”; also “made better” or “made worse”
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

John 17: 20-23 where Jesus Christ prayed the body built up for the Habitation of God to be made One.

That may not help but confuses more. I’m reading through myself confused. If there is one thing I took away from consideration of the bottles and the patch that pulls away where the tear or division is made worse is this…Jesus Christ warned them (and also us)that it would happen. It is very evident today that Jesus wasn’t lying nor deceiving.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The idea Paul is covering in 2 Cor.5:1-5 is about our flesh body vs. our heavenly body.

You said “The idea Paul is covering in 2 Cor.5:1-5 is about our flesh body vs. our heavenly body.”
And also how “If our flesh body is torn” we still have “our heavenly body”

Never disagreed but agree. I don’t understand how the below “if torn” “if the tent be torn” …or rent in two? Or torn in two? Or to burst open? or to break apart? That there is a dwelling place given from above and of God which is not torn apart, not rent but made Whole in Christ “our heavenly body” built up with Christ as the foundation and cornerstone; with also the prophets in agreement; which house grows up in all things where He said “I will build My House” and nothing can overthrow it.
The below was not meant to contradict what Paul was speaking of in regards to what remains where even “the gates of hell” can not overthrow it. Same as if this work be of men it will come to nothing but if it be of God then nothing can fight or stand against it. Again I fail to see your condemnation of all the below has no use and is worthy of all condemnation? Which part do you disagree so strongly with? The habitation no man can tear apart? Or is it that the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom? Or is it the part where God makes of two One new man, tearing down the middle wall of partition? Is it a habitation that grows where all the parts join and fit together for the habitation of God. Is it the groaning to not be poorly clothed but to found in him not having our own righteousness but the righteousness that comes from God? Or is it that…that which was subject to death through a lifetime of fear be swallowed up of Life? What part you see is to be condemned?

For we have seen if the tent which is our dwelling is torn; destroyed or overthrown
Matthew 16:17-18 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed are you, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in heaven. [18] And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (The habitation of God no man is able to tear, destroy or overthrow that which is built without hands of God) (Acts 5-38-39) leave these men along because if this work be of God then nothing can overthrow it.

IF the tent be torn
Mark 15:34-38 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why have you entangled me? And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calls Elias. And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Leave him alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down. And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the Spirit. And the veil of the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom.

IF the tent “building” be torn
we have a building from God, a dwelling from God where two …that which was torn is made One. Go read it where God makes of two One new man in Christ. Significant (Imo) because of what is read at funerals of seasons and times for everything …even a time to tear and a time to sew.

IF this tent be torn
We have a building Ephesians 2:21-22 In whom allll the building fitly framed together grows unto an holy temple(habitation) in the Lord: [22] In whom you also are builded (sewn, fitly framed, jointed) together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

We have a building from God, a dwelling not made with hands, age long in heavens. Which heavens sing a joyful song.

For indeed in this [house] we groan.
Longing to be clothed —to put on a habitation from heaven.

If indeed seeing unless we having put it on, to not be found naked. (Poorly clothed).
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Not that we be cast off
Or not that we be cast away age-long
But take off the old way of strife, debates, murder, hatred and put on the New which is created in His likeness: mercy, forgiveness, patience, peace and joy. Indeed seeing that unless we having put it on, to not be found naked (poorly clothed) but instead clothed with the New Man given of God unto Life.

Indeed while we are in this tent…torn in two
We do groan being weighed down because we do not wish to be put off or to be cast off.

but put on Christ.
In order, so that
What was subject to death..Hebrews 2:15-18
[And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
What was subject to death
Will be swallowed up by Life.
1 Corinthians 15:53-54 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. [54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Life is in the New man?
Logos having life in itself and communicating it to others. The Word of Life which we have gazed upon and the hands of us have handled (deceitfully or with care?)

Indeed while we are in this tent…torn in two
We do groan being weighed down because we do not wish to be put off or to be casted off.
but to put on Christ.
In order, so that
What was subject to death
Will be swallowed up by Life.
Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it. (That He will take away or remove …as in He takes away tears…not as in robbery is His “to take away from” or “to remove from” as to rob but to give …consider OT of that which was removed from the fire, an iron plucked out from the fire(as is said torment)…to “remove” or “take away” and I will clothe”
Zechariah 3:2-4 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? [3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello;

Was reading what victory had to say in what she had been reading recently.

When it comes to the wine; I believe this was a contrast between the old covenant and the new covenant - you can’t mix old ways with new ways. You have have a new start - which is in Christ, which frees from the old ways. If you mix them both in you only have confusion, and conflict. Like when Paul wrote to the Galatians warning them not to go back the Law. And focuses a lot of the spirit va the flesh. Which the Law was created to let the people of Israel known they were sinful, and Satan in that day he the power of death, until it (the Law) had been nailed to the cross of Christ and the defeat of the devil would shortly come to pass.

That is my thoughts on the wine bottles.

You can’t mix old religious law - with the new Royal Law of Christ who fulfilled the Torah, which is defined as loving your neighbor as yourself which David showed when he went in and got food for him and his friends.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hello;

Was reading what victory had to say in what she had been reading recently.

When it comes to the wine; I believe this was a contrast between the old covenant and the new covenant - you can’t mix old ways with new ways. You have have a new start - which is in Christ, which frees from the old ways. If you mix them both in you only have confusion, and conflict. Like when Paul wrote to the Galatians warning them not to go back the Law. And focuses a lot of the spirit va the flesh. Which the Law was created to let the people of Israel known they were sinful, and Satan in that day he the power of death, until it (the Law) had been nailed to the cross of Christ and the defeat of the devil would shortly come to pass.

That is my thoughts on the wine bottles.

You can’t mix old religious law - with the new Royal Law of Christ who fulfilled the Torah, which is defined as loving your neighbor as yourself which David showed when he went in and got food for him and his friends.

Thought a lot too about the Old Testament and the New Testament. Didn’t bring it up because I’m conflicted…does the Old Testament and New Testament contradict one another (as in disagree) or support one another (as in agree)? I hear it often how if Jesus is the express image of God the Father ; then who is God the Father of the Old Testament because they seem to contradict one another. I’m not saying that but I do hear often there is a contradiction there. Even hearing the God of the Old Testament is a monster. How can a monster beget Christ? But then also often hear alike that Christ reveals the Old Testament because he is the fulfillment of the Old by the New?

 

[Enoch111]

Cool.

There is nothing cool about making a mishmash of various Scriptures.

 

[Enoch111]

Thought a lot too about the Old Testament and the New Testament. Didn’t bring it up because I’m conflicted…does the Old Testament and New Testament contradict one another (as in disagree) or support one another (as in agree)?

Since ALL SCRIPTURE is "God-breathed" (translated as "given by inspiration of God") there is nothing contradictory of conflicting between the Old And New Testaments. However, there is PROGRESSIVE REVELATION and it is the Lord Jesus Christ and His apostles who have shown from the Old Testament what was to be fulfilled and is yet to be fulfilled. Christ is present throughout the OT, and the one who walked in the Garden of Eden was God the Word.

Justification (salvation) has always been by grace through faith, and Hebrews chapter 11 shows us that from the time of Abel until the time of Paul, sinners were justified by grace through faith (and this is still true today).

At the same time, there was a period when the Law of Moses would be in force for about1500 years until the crucifixion of Christ. The day Christ died, the Old Covenant came to an end and the New Covenant went into effect. And God now COMMANDS all men everywhere to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

People hate and dislike and are subjective. Meh. @Enoch111.

@VictoryinJesus do you believe God was a monster even though he rain downed hell fire upon people in scripture; like sodom and gomrrah; even though he had also created a place for them to go when they had died? Sheol is where everyone went to which is considered hell - with two place one being Abraham’s bosom or paradise and the prison part which was separated.

Was God fair and just in his decision and do you think since he has sent his Word that sense the days now of Jesus having the victory is what once was old now made Better by the new covenant; in which Jesus takes care of sin, the devil, death, and Sheol?

 

[Enoch111]

People hate and dislike and are subjective. Meh. @Enoch111.

You too are in the habit of making a mishmash of Scriptures. That is an objective reality.

 

[MatthewG]

Hope you Don’t get mad about it. It’s freedom in Christ we can do these things to compare scripture with scripture. Love to you brother, people still will hate, dislike and grip and complain nothing new, really @Enoch111. Thought would say it’s good to do a whole book bible study like Matthew and also compare scripture with scripture.

 

[Davy]

You said “The idea Paul is covering in 2 Cor.5:1-5 is about our flesh body vs. our heavenly body.”
And also how “If our flesh body is torn” we still have “our heavenly body”

Never disagreed but agree. I don’t understand how the below “if torn” “if the tent be torn” …or rent in two? Or torn in two? Or to burst open? or to break apart? That there is a dwelling place given from above and of God which is not torn apart, not rent but made Whole in Christ “our heavenly body” built up with Christ as the foundation and cornerstone; with also the prophets in agreement; which house grows up in all things where He said “I will build My House” and nothing can overthrow it.

Well firstly, the veil of the temple being torn in two at Christ's crucifixion was a 'literal' event, and it represented the end of the 'old covenant' separation between God and His people through a fleshy priesthood (Levitical), making Lord Jesus our only Mediator. That event has NOTHING to do with what Paul was declaring in 2 Cor.5 that if our flesh house were dissolved we still have another body not made with hands, but one from God, eternal in the Heavens. Sorry, but those two events do not blend together, nor are both about Faith on Jesus Christ simply because the unbelieving wicked dead have a resurrection to a spirit body also.

 

[Davy]

Hope you Don’t get mad about it. It’s freedom in Christ we can do these things to compare scripture with scripture. Love to you brother, people still will hate, dislike and grip and complain nothing new, really @Enoch111. Thought would say it’s good to do a whole book bible study like Matthew and also compare scripture with scripture.

NO, really we cannot be justified in trying to mix unrelated Scripture together, for that is to present chaos, which is of the devil. It goes against the simplicity of His Word. Just because a verse topic can often be found repeated in another Book of The Bible, that doesn't mean its topic changed. Trying to link verses that are about separate topics is to create chaos in His Word, and is away from understanding. That kind of working is destined to be destroyed by fire (SEE 1 Corinthians 3:11-15).

So why WASTE time doing the devil's work of creating chaos in His Word, when you could instead get into the actual Bible understanding that our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ want you to have? And then... He would be able to use... you in HIS SERVICE.