Do you accept that believers today are sealed/saved/justified by Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4
and the conditions are :- Titu 3:5, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:21,24-28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1.
A Challenge
- Thread starter Brakelite
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and the conditions are :- Titu 3:5, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:21,24-28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1.
I believe what Paul said, that after we believe the Gospel of our salvation we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.
Then Paul says the Holy Spirit is a down-payment on our salvation until the resurrection when we are fully sanctified and have a glorified body as Christ. We will be like Him.
The condition is this.
Heb. 3:14
"For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"
We must hold on to our faith in the finished work of Christ to the end of our lives, if not, the sanctification process in the end cannot be fulfilled. Our salvation cannot be completed.
""The condition is this.
Heb. 3:14""
Where does Paul teach that condition ?
Where is Hebrews given the same role as Paul > Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16
I believe Paul wrote Hebrews, although it can't be proven.
There are some giveaways, 3 in fact, that Paul was the author.
No one in the 1st century had near the knowledge of Paul to write the Book of Hebrews.
I accept that Paul did when Scripture says he did :)
Where in Rom-Philemon did Paul teach the Heb 3:14 condition ?
He taught it in Hebrews to the Jews who had accepted Christ and under peer pressure and persecution were turning back to temple worship, Judaism.
He began warning them that they were made partakers of Christ if they held on the faith until the end.
Then He told them there was more repentance to those who trampled under foot the Son Of God.
He wrote the Book of Hebrews for this reason, to make a case for Christ as the Mediator of a New Covenant.
He referred to the Law many times in proving Christ, and they would have understood it very well, where we would have problems understanding the Law as they understood it.
""He taught it in Hebrews to the Jews who had accepted Christ""
The verses that teach Paul wrote Hebrews are ??
It seems we totally disagree on several things.
Nothing we can do about that.
When he gave the example of the Hebrews in the wilderness (their forefathers) he showed them how they perished and did not enter into God's rest through unbelief. Then He warned them,
Heb. 3:12
"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God."
This is the premise of the writing of the Book of Hebrews.
We just disagree, no harm done.
Can't disagree with Scripture ?
Does Scripture teach Paul wrote Hebrews ?
If so then please show the verses.
If none, then Scripture wins as it always does :)
I've already told you it can't be proven, but someone wrote it and someone with extreme knowledge of the New Covenant and Old.
It was Paul that Christ personally gave revelation in this knowledge long before the 12 apostles knew it, and in fact they learned much of it from Paul.
"I've already told you it can't be proven, but someone wrote it and someone with extreme knowledge of the New Covenant and Old.""
We agree
**
In Romans to Philemon, where does Paul teach the Hebrew 3:14 condition that you spoke of ?
Just the verses C24, let them do the talking :)
"I've already told you it can't be proven, but someone wrote it and someone with extreme knowledge of the New Covenant and Old.""
We agree
**
In Romans to Philemon, where does Paul teach the Hebrew 3:14 condition that you spoke of ?
Just the verses C24, let them do the talking :)
Paul taught departing from God to the Galatians when the Judaizers came to the Galatian Church and told them that they couldn't be saved without circumcision. They accepted that teaching and Paul flew furious.
Paul said to them, were you saved by the works of the Law, or by faith in Christ, you have fallen from Grace.
Gal 5:4 is written to who ?
Those who try to be justified by the law.
Is that you & I today ? NO
Then does is apply to us today ? NO
**
How it applies to us is one who mixes the works of the flesh with grace through faith has departed from God.
Like water baptism as a requirement to be saved, it the same as with the Galatians in circumcision.
In order to be saved they were depending on a man to perform the ritual of circumcision, where today those who require water baptism to be saved are depending on a man for salvation to perform a ceremony on their behalf.
Same thing, some things never change.
No confusion when you accept who Christ gave the authority to teach Salvation to believers today :)
Acts 9:15, Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16.
Was Job saved by the teachings of Matthew ? No, why not ? Because Matthew didn't apply to Job.
Well, friend, we will not agree on much, and that's just the way it is.
We are reading the Scripture in different ways, but there's a lot of that going on with all the forums.
No problem, I agree to disagree and move on.
What parts of Acts 9:15, Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16 do you reject ?
BINGO
If understood correctly AND applied to the relevant age/audience <<< us today :)
BINGO
If understood correctly AND applied to the relevant age/audience <<< us today :)
Past my bedtime. I look forward to more conversation in the future.
I'm sure we will find some common ground!
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