A Closer Look at the Genesis Creation Account

[Jay Ross]

Actually, it shows that life was longer for the folks who were born pre-flood. Look at the drop off in age for folk who were born after.

Another way of looking at this data is shown in this diagram: -



This diagram also shows the progression as the length of the lives of the patriarchs decreased from the time of the flood up to the time of Joseph.

The theories that Aunty Jane is proposing come from the silence of the scriptures and as such they are just conjecture on her part. There is no scriptural backing for her opinion.

Shalom

 

[Jay Ross]

I have plenty of other books that help me understand the scriptures......the book of Jashar isn't one of them.....if I want psalms and songs...they are in the Bible......it contains all we need.

It is fine that you do not own the Book of Jasher in your reference library. Like all books we should chew the fat that they contain and throw out the bones that do not make sense. In reading your posts there are a lot of bones that has to be rejected.

Have a good day, then.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Man's flawed science is arguing with Genesis. Genesis diea not habe to argue with ir complynwith flawed science.

Cheese

..... a little proof reading wouldn't hurt.....

A literal interpretation of Genesis is fundamental to the entire Bible. Start messing with that, symbolizing it and thatbcan leadntondoingbthe same thing with any other doctrine in the Bible.

I am taking the Bible literally....but I am working with the meaning of the original language word....which wasn't English.
The Hebrew word for "day" is "yom" and it has a range of meanings. So Genesis 2:4 uses "yom" to describe all of creation as occurring in one "day".....so here we have an example of the usage.....not just a 24 hour day.

They distort who God is, what Jesus did or did not do. Faith can really be fragile if you just symbolize whatever doesn't fit into your world view.

The Bible's truth was distorted so long ago that most people today wouldn't have a clue as to what is Bible truth and what is not.
Jesus' parable of the "wheat and the weeds" was given to tell us that this would happen....and it wasn't recent. The foretold apostasy was already beginning whilst the apostles were still alive......and once they were gone and the last of the Christian scriptures was penned, there was nothing to hold it back. (2 Thessalonians 2:6-12)

Created on Day 4.

It doesn't say that the luminaries were "created" on day four.....it says that God "made" them to shine on that day. The word "created" is not used in those verses.

Death did not exist yet
Oops, I guess your science missed that one?

I'm sorry...what????
What did I miss?......you mean to tell me that trees and vegetation were designed to live forever without dying? Were animals? Did they sin so as to have everlasting life taken away from them like humans? Please explain.....

 

[tabletalk]

This is a reminder to all. We have several non-Trinitarian members. And the above is why they are still here despite this being a Trinity affirming community.

"...but we are not open to those who categorically deny a central tenant of the faith through willful choice."
If the Trinity is a 'central tenant' of the faith, why are 'they still here' since they deny the Trinity willfully?

 

[lforrest]

"...but we are not open to those who categorically deny a central tenant of the faith through willful choice."
If the Trinity is a 'central tenant' of the faith, why are 'they still here' since they deny the Trinity willfully?

Our members often disagree on one thing or another concerning the statement of faith. It is why we have a place for people to post their own statement in their profile. I can't say with certainty that everyone who does so denies the Trinity willingly. Take @amadeus for example, who came to believe otherwise later in life. I've also heard of people joining Catholicism later in life, and coming to believe what they are required to believe for that denomination. Standing on my own in the place of God is above my pay grade. If anyone believes let them believe because the Lord lead them to do so. So long as non-trinitarians are respectful of the Trinity on here they are welcome.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
There's at least two versions of the Trinity out there to choose from. Though
they are very similar, they differ somewhat on the person of Christ.

One Trinity says Christ is fully God and fully Man, whereas the other Trinity
says Christ is fully Man, but not quite fully God.

Both Trinities pretty much agree that Christ has human nature and divine
nature simultaneously but that's where the similarity ends. Only one of the
two Trinities agrees that Christ exists as both a spirit being and a physical
being simultaneously, viz: when the Word of John 1:1-4 came into the world
as the flesh of John 1:14, he didn't stop existing as the Word; consequently
Christ is both Word and flesh simultaneously, i.e. two persons in one, and
they couldn't be more unalike than day and night because one is the creator
per Gen 1:1, and the other is a creature per Gen 1:26-27.
_

 

[amadeus]

Jesus wasnt created, He has always existed and always will, the same for the Holy Spirit. Three persons, one God. The Trinity.

So then this is your belief and you stand on it which may be a very good thing in the eyes of God.

For someone that believes, for whatever reason, differently than you, should he follow your lead rather than what is in his own heart and what he sees from his personal conversation with God and from reading the Bible?

I understand why you might not follow in my footsteps, but why would you expect me to follow in yours? Do you know you are right in every point or do you only believe it?

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov. 21:2

God is the only One who always knows! The rest of us, excepting anyone who has overcome already like Jesus did, are still viewing things as through a glass darkly. What does it take to arrive at the "face to face" vision?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Cheese

..... a little proof reading wouldn't hurt....

Sorry, it's my cell phone's fault, his buttons are too small for my fingers. I gotta get over to my desk top, he is more cooperative.. Ususally I look it over ... I will make an extra effort.

I am taking the Bible literally....but I am working with the meaning of the original language word....which wasn't English.
The Hebrew word for "day" is "yom" and it has a range of meanings. So Genesis 2:4 uses "yom" to describe all of creation as occurring in one "day".....so here we have an example of the usage.....not just a 24 hour day.

Do you have a Phd in Bible Hermeneutics, ancient Hebrew and Koene Greek? Or at least a Masters degree in Judaism or Christian theology? If not please don't pretend you know how exegete the ancient languages. The work of translating the scriptures has been done already by loads of brilliant scholars ... and neither you nor I are included in that group. Access Bible Gateway and you will see at least 50 English versions. I use about eight of them regularly.
The specific details in Gen. 1 defines the word "yom".

The Bible's truth was distorted so long ago that most people today wouldn't have a clue as to what is Bible truth and what is not.
Jesus' parable of the "wheat and the weeds" was given to tell us that this would happen....and it wasn't recent.

Many Christians know the truth and with most of us, at least the essentials. I believe half of the Body of Christ have fallen for this Theistic Evolution and so are deceived. They must distort Genesis somehow to accomodate their science. Okay, you said you did not believe this, but you are believing their dating methods which are flawed (Carbon-14 , Potasium Argon)

(2 Thessalonians 2:6-12)

The Restrainer of Evil is the Holy Spirit. When He and the Church are taken out of the way, then the Antichrist will be revealed. All this happens soon, so it is future; and therefore not applicable to the past.

It doesn't say that the luminaries were "created" on day four.....it says that God "made" them to shine on that day. The word "created" is not used in those verses.

Yes it does. Each day the Bible describes His specific acts of creation in an orderly and timely way. Each day and its events are separate from the other.

1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
> That is an opening statement, a topical sentence that summarizes His work. In general terms, He created everything. Then the details follow ...

2 "The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."
>> He created the earth first, void (meaning no life); without form (meaning without order and geographical and biological details as we see it). It was pretty much a mixture of elements, solids, water, molten lava, etc.

3 "Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light." ...[From verse 2 - 5 He accomplished on Day 1]
>>So we see that God spoke, "Let there be light". He created Physical light with waves and particles, colors ...
The word creation does not have to be there, it is implied. Let there be light and there was light.m- created. With each day we see this creative power in specific and separate acts.


6 "Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” ... [through verse 8 on Day 2]

9 "Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so." 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

11 "Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so." ... [to verse 13 on Day 3]
>> All the botanicals were created on day 3, they could not survive without the sun for millions of years. They only had to wait until God created the sun on the next day.

14 "Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day."

>> We see a clear definition of a day here. The sun created for the day and the moon for the night = 1 Day, (24 hours)

20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens. 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind." ... [verses 20-23 on Day 5]

24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that [h]moves on the earth.”

>>He created all land animals (including Dinosaurs) and man on Day 6.

m sorry...what????
What did I miss?......you mean to tell me that trees and vegetation were designed to live forever without dying? Were animals? Did they sin so as to have everlasting life taken away from them like humans? Please explain.....

Death did not exist before Adam and Eve's sin. Death did not just effect our physical and spiritual lives, the earth was also cursed.
What once was a perfect environment, death was introduced to the Garden and the rest of the earth. Distortions within the genetic codes, causing mutations, bad bacteria, viruses and all sorts of diseases began. Death was introduced to every organic cell with the original sin.
Someday death will be eliminated. Cells just won't die. Everything will be eternal, no decay.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Part 1

Do you have a Phd in Bible Hermeneutics, ancient Hebrew and Koene Greek? Or at least a Masters degree in Judaism or Christian theology? If not please don't pretend you know how exegete the ancient languages. The work of translating the scriptures has been done already by loads of brilliant scholars ... and neither you nor I are included in that group. Access Bible Gateway and you will see at least 50 English versions. I use about eight of them regularly.
The specific details in Gen. 1 defines the word "yom".

I do not have a PhD in anything....like Jesus' disciples....I am “uneducated” by worldly standards....but not by God's standards.

“Now when they saw the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and ordinary men, they were astonished. And they began to realize that they had been with Jesus.” (Acts 4:13; Matthew 11:25; 1 Corinthians 1:27-27) When Jesus is your teacher, you don’t need letters after your name.....you just have to be educated by the Master. The Bible concordance that I use (Strongs) is commonly used by Bible students of all denominations. I base my findings on their scholarship. I am often amazed when translations do not comply with original word meanings, as I often use Biblegateway to compare translations. I don't pluck my views out of the air you know....I research everything very carefully.

Do you know the reason why Jesus chose uneducated men to be his apostles? It was because the “schools” that provided religious education back in the first century were overrun by corrupted teachers and their teachings. Jesus called the teachings of the Pharisees “leaven”....and said that they taught "the commands of men as doctrines". (Mark 8:15; Matthew 15:7-9) Today Christendom is a mirror image of apostate Judaism....also full of corrupted teachings inherited from an apostasy that took place long ago. Therefore their institutions are also corrupt in their teachings. Their basic theology is the same, and yet they come out of those theological colleges and drift off into their chosen denominations. Have you never asked why?

Many Christians know the truth and with most of us, at least the essentials. I believe half of the Body of Christ have fallen for this Theistic Evolution and so are deceived. They must distort Genesis somehow to accomodate their science. Okay, you said you did not believe this, but you are believing their dating methods which are flawed (Carbon-14 , Potasium Argon)

I have conversed with many who have adopted theistic evolution, trying to maintain credibility in both camps, but the true science does not lie and neither does the Bible. Dinosaurs are one of the prime examples of the age of the earth and why it could not possibly have been 6 literal days. These creatures were long extinct before man came along. They were gigantic in size and if humans had been around, imagine the danger of becoming crushed muck between their toes! Were dinosaurs on the ark? Was there any mention of them by humans who lived before the flood?

Their radio carbon dating might be out by a few thousand years, but it is still indicating that the earth itself is ancient and that creatures were in existence and became extinct, thousands of years before man was created.
YEC’s fly in the face of science when science simply backs up what the Bible says if you read it correctly. Implement the original meaning of the word “day” and it all falls into place. Why do these “days” have to be 24 hour periods? The Bible does not say that.
Has it become a pride issue?

The Restrainer of Evil is the Holy Spirit. When He and the Church are taken out of the way, then the Antichrist will be revealed. All this happens soon, so it is future; and therefore not applicable to the past.

What restrained the apostasy was the apostles themselves. They alone could transfer the Holy Spirit to others by the laying on of hands. When the apostles died, the gifts died with them. The gifts had served their purpose and were no longer necessary. A more mature basis for the Christian Faith was now required after the apostolic period.
As Paul said....
1 Corinthians 13:8-13....
“...if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with.”

What was it that was going to be “complete”?....what were they waiting for?
The “sacred mystery” or "secret" ("my·steʹri·on"* Matthew 13:11-13; 1 Corinthians 2:6-8; Romans 16:25-26) that the apostles spoke about was to be revealed in God’s due time. So what was “complete” was the Holy Scriptures....the Hebrew and Greek writings together as the complete word of God, that would tell the whole story from Genesis to Revelation. From the beginning of creation, to a thousand years into the future....one story.
But the full understanding of Bible prophesy would not be understood until “the time of the end”.....(Daniel 12:4, 9-10)....the time we are living in now.

Paul continues....
“ 11 When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. 12 For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known. 13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.”

So when the “elect” are resurrected and taken to heaven during Christ’s “presence” (parousia) which is currently for them during these “last days”, it will then be “face to face” with their Lord. But in the meantime there were three qualities that Christians had to maintain to form the basis of all their beliefs....”faith, hope, and love”. Mature Christians would no longer need the traits of a child to attract them to the Christian Faith. No miracles.....just firm faith based on the complete word of God and its own revelations in God's due time.

* Concerning the Greek my·steʹri·on, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words explains: “In the [New Testament] it denotes, not the mysterious (as with the Eng. word), but that which, being outside the range of unassisted natural apprehension, can be made known only by Divine revelation, and is made known in a manner and at a time appointed by God, and to those only who are illumined by His Spirit. In the ordinary sense a mystery implies knowledge withheld; its Scriptural significance is truth revealed. Hence the terms especially associated with the subject are ‘made known,’ ‘manifested,’ ‘revealed,’ ‘preached,’ ‘understand,’ ‘dispensation.’”

 

[Aunty Jane]

Part 2...

Yes it does. Each day the Bible describes His specific acts of creation in an orderly and timely way. Each day and its events are separate from the other.

Yes, but why must they be confined to 24 hour periods when Genesis itself allows for each “day” to be as long as God needs it to be? Why are you placing limits of God’s use of a word in Hebrew that means the same as it does in English. When we speak of our grandparent’s “day”, we are not speaking about a 24 hour period, are we? What is the real deal about this? It makes no sense to me.

3 "Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light." ...[From verse 2 - 5 He accomplished on Day 1]
>>So we see that God spoke, "Let there be light". He created Physical light with waves and particles, colors ...

Light was the first thing God said he provided to the earth...why? Because the two elements necessary for life are water and light. Water covered the entire surface of the earth so it was already part of creation, but so was light in all the "heavens" that God brought into existence. So many stars, some that would dwarf our own sun. But light was brought to earth’s surface so that life could begin with the creation of vegetation. There was obviously enough light for photosynthesis to take place, but not enough for the luminaries to be clearly seen from the earthly perspective.
Implication can also work against you. This is logical to me by the process of elimination.

14 "Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day."
The word creation does not have to be there, it is implied. Let there be light and there was light.m- created. With each day we see this creative power in specific and separate acts.

No, that is not correct IMO. When God means “create” he says so. The implication is your own. It fits with what you have chosen to believe.....but it’s not there. The opening statement in Genesis 1:1 says that the earth along with the heavens was "created" already, before God prepared planet earth for habitation.
Sun, moon and stars were already present, but not visible from the earth’s surface because of cloud layers. (Job 38:4, 9) Let the Bible explain itself.

Death did not exist before Adam and Eve's sin. Death did not just effect our physical and spiritual lives, the earth was also cursed.
What once was a perfect environment, death was introduced to the Garden and the rest of the earth. Distortions within the genetic codes, causing mutations, bad bacteria, viruses and all sorts of diseases began. Death was introduced to every organic cell with the original sin.

Actually death as a result of sin was passed only to human kind. So the rest of creation was not really subject to the cursing of the ground, which did not produce food for the humans that they were used to. God said that they were to "eat bread" when they had never had such a thing. They were exclusively fruitarians before their eviction. Animals were provided with vegetation, but they were not confined to the diet that humans would now be reduced to. They had to grow grain to make flour and bake bread. The ground was cursed so that its yield would not be plentiful. "In the sweat of his face", Adam would now produce food for his family. It was designed to make the humans realize what they had thrown away.

Someday death will be eliminated. Cells just won't die. Everything will be eternal, no decay.

This is true....Revelation 21:3-4 gives us a glimpse of that wonderful time....but it will be on earth among "mankind" not in heaven where many Christians imagine themselves to be going....
"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

The "former things" are the awful elements of a world ruled by the devil with his willing human and demonic minions. (1 John 5:19)
After dispatching wicked humanity, satan and his hordes will be going into a prison for 1,000 years whilst Jesus and his elect bring humankind back into reconciliation with God. That is what the Kingdom is for.....to get us back to Paradise where God put us in the first place.

To me, Christendom has completely lost the original plot.....

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

When Jesus is your teacher, you don’t need letters after your name.....you just have to be educated by the Master. The Bible concordance that I use (Strongs) is commonly used by Bible students of all denominations. I base my findings on their scholarship. I am often amazed when translation do not comply with original word meanings, as I often use Biblegateway to compare translations. I don't pluck my views out of the air you know....I research everything very carefully

Scripture is spiritually discerned, therefore you must have the Holy Spirit. True, you don't need a teacher IF you can read the text, in whatever language it is written and comprehend it.
Can you translate this following sentence without referring to any reference books? בוְהָאָ֗רֶץ הָֽיְתָ֥ה תֹ֨הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ וְח֖שֶׁךְ עַל־פְּנֵ֣י תְה֑וֹם וְר֣וּחַ אֱלֹהִ֔ים מְרַחֶ֖פֶת עַל־פְּנֵ֥י הַמָּֽיִם
No. That is my point. You can't just look up one word like "yom", that may have several meanings, pick one and apply it to Genesis without exegeting the entire passage. You are in error. 1 day is a 24 hour day and is defined as scripture defines it. Don't bother with Strongs, apparenting you do not have the Spirit to guide you. You have to ask yourself, I am born again? I am the Temple of the Holy Spirit? Has He confirmed His presence with me? Just don't see how you cannot get this fundamental understanding of Genesis wrong.
Btw, your explanation of Sheol is wrong too. I will get into that with you as well later

Dinosaurs are one of the prime examples of the age of the earth and why it could not possibly have been 6 literal days. These creatures were long extinct before man came along. They were gigantic in size and if humans had been around, imagine the danger of becoming crushed muck between their toes!

They coexisted with man and then were destroyed in the Flood. We see Leviathon and Behemoth in scripture as huge, dangerous animals, with legs like tree trunks.
My Pastor was formerly a scientist..He explained that the environment of the Garden was different in that it never rained but had a water canopy, a mist that watered the earth. It blocked out the harmful rays that contribute to aging and cell death in an organism.
Now, reptiles don't stop growing. We see huge turtles 150 years old. Imagine if many of these reptiles could live 1000 years, how large they would get? Man lived that long. And it is likely some of those amphibian monsters survived in underground caverns for a long time and that citings such Loch Ness were not myth at all. There have been human footprints inside a dinosaur footprint found. They like to discount that - they must, it doesn't fit well. The Cambrian explosion seems to reveal all species within one strata. I can go on and on.
Dinosaurs were preserved in mud instantly as if from a flood. Bones left on the ground exposed to the elements could not last 100 -300 years before disintegrating if they were in a humid climate with the sun, water and wind beating on them. In a dryer climate maybe in a cave protected, 1000+ years. IF buried in mud ....well the Flood happened about 4400 years ago. You won't accept this and I really don't give hoot if your do or don't.

What was it that was going to be “complete”?....what were they waiting for?

Our redemption, new bodies, the co summation of the history of man when sin and evil is finally put down.

Concerning the Greek my·steʹri·on, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words explains: “In the [New Testament] it denotes, not the mysterious (as with the Eng. word), but that which, being outside the range of unassisted natural apprehension, can be made known only by Divine revelation, and is made known in a manner and at a time appointed by God, and to those only who are illumined by His Spirit. In the ordinary sense a mystery implies knowledge withheld; its Scriptural significance is truth revealed. Hence the terms especially associated with the subject are ‘made known,’ ‘manifested,’ ‘revealed,’ ‘preached,’ ‘understand,’ ‘dispensation.’”

There you go again, drifting off into the dictionary filled with various meanings. Stick to the context of those scriptures.
You wondered what was going to be complete above? This is part of the mystery, what we will be like and to see God face to face - is there any other mystery more valuable that is hidden? It is not something that can be revealed in a conscious sense as knowledge or wisdom given by God, it is a mystery that will be unveiled that we will experience, OUR RESURRECTION AND MEETING THE LORD.
(Rev. 10:7 & 1 Cor. 15:51-52)

 

[farouk]

Now why would you go through all of this trouble on history and semantics, as opposed to taking the Bible at face value?

Whatever you choose to call it or whatever the words came from, it seems irrelevant when the Bible clearly gives its own explanation of what it is talking about.

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

The reason you are facing a terrible amount of backlash, from pretty much everyone, is because you are actually teaching falsely and that is very dangerous.

It isn't about cultures or definitions or words. It is about what the Bible is telling us. It is the Word ITSELF that matters and that we listen to - God's Word.

@FluffyYellowDuck Hebrews 11 begins with a faith acceptance of God's creation....

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Yes, but why must they be confined to 24 hour periods when Genesis itself allows for each “day” to be as long as God needs it to be? Why are you placing limits of God’s use of a word in Hebrew that means the same as it does in English. When we speak of our grandparent’s “day”, we are not speaking about a 24 hour period, are we? What is the real deal about this? It makes no sense to me.

To you _ in your mind _ and world, what is the length of time between the morning, when the sun rises until the next morning? Wait, take your time, this get's tricky now. Half way through that time period, the sun sets and it becomes evening. Oh, there's one more complication to add to that, sorry : the moon comes out to shed light during the evening, although sometimes you can see it during the day,
I know this is a difficult concept, so if you need help figuring this complex problem, ask some grammar school kids, you would be surprised, they are up to snuff on this kind of stuff.

Light was the first thing God said he provided to the earth...why? Because the two elements necessary for life are water and light.

Jesus is the life. He is the Creator. He made man from the dust of the earth, but the life force came from Him, not chemicals, the sun or water.

Water covered the entire surface of the earth so it was already part of creation, but so was light in all the "heavens" that God brought into existence

Sounds like you are adding to Day One. The heavens ( first and second) were not created on Day One. The third heaven ( God's domain) of course already existed.
The first heaven (firmament) was created on Day Two. Come on now follow along, put the Strongs Concordance down - you don't need it.
The sun, moon and stars, the universe, were created on Day four. I know, your mind just can't compute this, it probably just exploded. All the science you've learned is now bleeding out of the orifices. I am truly sorry about this overload of information - I didn't mean it.

But light was brought to earth’s surface so that life could begin with the creation of vegetation

What do you think, God planted seeds and needed the sun to grow the botanicals? He made everything finished, complete, mature, fully grown.

No, that is not correct IMO. When God means “create” he says so. The implication is your own

So the command of His voice, speaking forth? "Let there be light" and there was light, you don't think is a creative act? Wow.

Actually death as a result of sin was passed only to human kind. So the rest of creation was not really subject to the cursing of the ground, which did not produce food for the humans that they were used to.

Sin brought death to every living thing. The earth was cursed. What was perfect became imperfect. Look closely at every thing alive and you'll see imperfections. The Sequoias due pretty well considering. There are probably trees alive that just started growing after the Flood. So there are a couple exceptions - everything else dies. Everything suffers from disease, viruses, bacteria, mutations, genetic flaws.

 

[JohnPaul]

Jesus is the life. He is the Creator. He made man from the dust of the earth, but the life force came from Him, not chemicals, the sun or water.

Jesus is the life, but God the Father is the creator, Jesus is the only begotten son of God.

 

[farouk]

Jesus is the life, but God the Father is the creator, Jesus is the only begotten son of God.

@JohnPaul Remarkably, John 1.3-4 also says: "Without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life..."

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Jesus is the life, but God the Father is the creator, Jesus is the only begotten son of God.

Col. 1:16, 17 ... Did you miss that one.
Only begotten Son means, when Jesus was born. He pre-existed with the Father God.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Warning!! Be weary of aunty jane, she belongs to the cult some call jehovahs witnesses. They are full of false doctrine, and deceit.

Oooohhh. That explains everything. Wish I caught that sooner. I was about ready to throw in the towel with our dialogue. I was just about ready to ask, "Who the heck was your Pastor and what church taught you these views?" I did ask if she was born again, and had the Holy Spirit. Now I know. They believe the Holy Spirit is a force, not a person. How can you have a relationship with a force? Why would God dwell inside someone who does not believe God, the Holy Spirit is a person? We must be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is essential for discerning scripture. We must pray and ask for Him.
Nice people, well intentioned and obedient to practicing Christianity - but there is no Oil in their lamps. I was also going to argue against her view on Sheol. Now I won't waste my time. I think I heard once that JW's are not really interested in what anyone outside their organization thinks, just their view. And they are firmly grounded/ brainwashed to thinking as they do.

 

[Pythagorean12]

Enuma Elish is the old Babylonian creation myth, which has been preserved for thousands of years on clay tablets. It predates most of the creation myths of the world, although it's surely not the oldest one. Here is the translated text of the myth, investigated and explained.
Enuma Elish - The Babylonian creation myth in 7 Cuneiform tablets
www.creationmyths.org/enumaelish-ba…

 

[Aunty Jane]

Col. 1:16, 17 ... Did you miss that one.
Only begotten Son means, when Jesus was born. He pre-existed with the Father God.

I missed nothing.....read it again.....”only begotten” has nothing to do with his human birth...it is about his origins.

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”

You read right over words as if they are not there....

First of all, he is the “image” of his God...an image is a reflection or representation of something or someone, but it is not that something or someone. Like an image of you would not be you, but a representation of what you look like. A movie might be a representation of how you speak and act, but still not you.

Second he is “the firstborn of all creation”....the very first thing that was created by his God. Nothing precedes him but his Father. He is an “only begotten son” and was so because he is “before” everything else. “Monogenes” means an “only child” and is used elsewhere in the Bible to describe other “only begotten” children. God has many “sons” but only the pre-human Jesus was unique, in that he is the only direct creation of his Father.

In order to be “begotten” he needed a “Begetter”.....one who caused him to be......he is the “son” of a “Father”....why would God use those terms for an equal part of himself?

All things were created “through” God’s firstborn and “for him”....so the Son was used as the agency “through” which creation in heaven and on earth came into existence....and it was created for him, not for the Father, but for the Son who was part of the team in creation. He was the one who fashioned all things from the raw materials brought into existence by his Father’s great power. There is only one Creator, but he had someone working with him....

Proverbs 8:22-23;27-31....
“The Lord made me at the beginning of His creation, before His works of long ago. I was formed before ancient times, from the beginning, before the earth began. . . .I was there when He established the heavens, when He laid out the horizon on the surface of the ocean, when He placed the skies above, when the fountains of the ocean gushed out, when He set a limit for the sea so that the waters would not violate His command, when He laid out the foundations of the earth. I was a skilled craftsman beside Him. I was His delight every day, always rejoicing before Him. I was rejoicing in His inhabited world, delighting in the human race.”

Revelation 3:14 also calls Jesus....
“....the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.”

So unless you have done word studies without Christendom’s interpretation of the trinity getting in the way, there is nothing in the Bible that makes Jesus anything but what he always was....the created “son of God”.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Oooohhh. That explains everything. Wish I caught that sooner. I was about ready to throw in the towel with our dialogue. I was just about ready to ask, "Who the heck was your Pastor and what church taught you these views?" I did ask if she was born again, and had the Holy Spirit. Now I know. They believe the Holy Spirit is a force, not a person. How can you have a relationship with a force? Why would God dwell inside someone who does not believe God, the Holy Spirit is a person? We must be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is essential for discerning scripture. We must pray and ask for Him.
Nice people, well intentioned and obedient to practicing Christianity - but there is no Oil in their lamps. I was also going to argue against her view on Sheol. Now I won't waste my time. I think I heard once that JW's are not really interested in what anyone outside their organization thinks, just their view. And they are firmly grounded/ brainwashed to thinking as they do.

Now that almost made me spit my morning coffee.....

“I think I heard once that JW's are not really interested in what anyone outside their organization thinks, just their view. And they are firmly grounded/ brainwashed to thinking as they do.”

But that could never happen to you....could it? You couldn’t have suffered the same thing by any chance...?
I was raised in Christendom, so there is little that you could tell me about them or their teachings.....so having been on both sides of this fence, I can spot it very clearly when someone is speaking from ignorance....I used to be one of them. I thought the same things you mentioned there, but I didn’t have a clue who JW’s were and I couldn’t have cared less about those people who were annoyingly knocking on my door.....until one day I decided to put some questions to them that my own church could not answer, thinking that they would feel embarrassed and just leave me alone. But to my surprise, they did not back away from a single question....they opened the Bible and answered every single one without hesitation. They invited me to get my own Bible and check it for myself, so I did, and what I learned that day from that short conversation changed my whole way of thinking. I learned more that day than in all the Sundays I had attended church.

That was the beginning of my spiritual journey and my life’s work to know and understand the deeper things of God’s word. To this day, I still shudder at the ignorance that still exists in the whole of hopelessly fractured Christendom...who can’t agree on anything except the fundamental doctrines formulated by an apostate church centuries after Jesus died.....none of those doctrines can be found in the Bible, but they were craftily grafted in as if they had always been there.

I feel truly sad about that situation, but God is judging us all by what we accept as truth. There will be no divisions in true Christianity. (1 Corinthians 1:10) And they would be identified by the love they have for one another in a world where love has grown cold. (John 13:34-35) Unity and peace are rare commodities in this world.

Don’t be so quick to judge......1 Corinthians 10:12. Glass houses, ya know......