I think this speaks more towards our inability to aquire facile understandings of the mysteries concerning God then whether such things as "God the Son" are revealed.
Much love!
A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians
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Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
What human finite mind(including mine that has been Illuminated by the Holy Spirit) can fully understand Elohim Father Elohim Son Elohim Holy Spirit are Echad?
Rich R
Well-Known Member
Well, you have a good point IF the phrase in John 1:1 is, "...and the Word was God." However, if that phrase is taken as, "...and the Word was godly" there is no problem. The logos was not something that was created at all. It's God's mind, which of course was not created. It's just part of the untreated God.
As I've said before, either translation of John 1:1 is OK, but it really is much more likely stating the God's plan was a Godly plan, which of course it would be given that God came up with it. I mentioned a noted Trinitarian that translates John 1:1 as, "...and the word was godly." There are actually many more scholars, most Trinitrarian, that now favor that translation.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Yes indeed therein lies the problem .
When i first began , BYGRACE , to pour into those lovely scriptures
i did not understand the God head . YET , by that same grace i knew i only had to believe what was written .
See , when i read the gospel of JOHN , I KNEW it was true . THOUGH i could not at all understand HOW that could even be .
YET , a child does not have to KNOW and UNDERSTAND in order to simply believe . I simply believed it .
And as time went on and i learned and was just loving all things written in that bible . SUDDENLY ONE day
such a simple and peaceable UNDERSTANDING CAME . WHEN IT DID it ONLY STRENGTHENED MY FAITH
and that understanding was PURE , cause it did not CONTRADICT What JOHN had wrote .
ANY TIME we learn something and it does contradict what was already PLAINLY written , well that is known as A LIE .
MY advice to all today is this , YOU MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND , but DO NOT CONTRADICT . SIMPLY BELIEVE
and trust IN GOD and in time ye will be given more understanding . AND IT ALWAYS agrees with what is ALREADY WRITTEN .
Thus let no man woman or child deny the DIETY of CHRIST ,. SIMPLY believe what is written and keep in those scriptures
and the UNDERSTANDING WILL COME .
I don't see how we have any frame of reference to "understand God" in His fulness. We have to accept the reality of what the Word says about God, and not insist that everything is accountable within my logic and reason.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
So now for a simple reminder . IN THE BEGINNIG was the WORD and the WORD was with GOD
and GOD is the WORD . Ye might not understand , but DONT DENY .
and GOD is the WORD . Ye might not understand , but DONT DENY .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And we all know that JESUS always corrected ERROR fast .
SO here is another reminder . MY LORD AND MY GOD , and JESUS DID NOT CORRECT that DESCIPLE .
And yet JESUS says I GOT the THE FATHER and MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I .
AND YET , GOD IS HIS WORD . I KNOW it can seem hard to understand , AT FIRST .
BUT the understanding will come . SIMPLY BELIEVE and wait upon the LORD . And deny not the truth of scripture .
SO here is another reminder . MY LORD AND MY GOD , and JESUS DID NOT CORRECT that DESCIPLE .
And yet JESUS says I GOT the THE FATHER and MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I .
AND YET , GOD IS HIS WORD . I KNOW it can seem hard to understand , AT FIRST .
BUT the understanding will come . SIMPLY BELIEVE and wait upon the LORD . And deny not the truth of scripture .
Being one with something does not make the GOD or the Same Being...
Jesus dude....
Mat 19:6 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
Do you really think my wife and I are one Being???
Think before you post silly child!!!
Joh 17:11 "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
Now... according to your post...... the Apostles are now GOD!
SOOO what part of Jesus telling You He's just a Man did you not understand????
" (John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
Really Kermos.... At the beginning of the CHURCH at Pentecost.... WHAT did Peter teach????
NASB Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--
Kermos.... Why do you not know as Peter taught in Act 2:22.... You teach the traditions of men.... silly child!
Do You and David have permission to post such stuff from your pastors and make your beliefs look so stupid for all to see?
Just trying to help...
Paul
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Pay attention !
Joh 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
Read your Translation again... John just contradicted himself 3 verses later ... or your translation is wrong???
When you look at some verses in the Old and New Testament you have to remember to look at them with a Hebrew or Greek mind of that period, and not a 20th century mind. Some language can mean something to us that it did not mean back then. For example, if an Englishman says, "I am mad about my flat" he means that he is exited about his apartment. To an American, that same phrase means that he is angry about his flat tire. The word "God" for example, means to us in the 20th century "The Almighty God." To a Jew it did not necessarily mean "Almighty God." In Psalms 82: 1 & 6 God refers to earthly rulers as gods. This is the same passage that Jesus quotes to the Jews when they accuse him of saying that he is God. Paraphrasing Jesus, he says to them; "If it is okay to call men gods, why is it blasphemous for me to say that I am the Son of God"(John 10: 33 - 38). Notice how when Jesus is accused of being God, he quickly corrects them that he is not God, but the Son of God. In 2 Corinthians 4: 4 Satan is also called the "god of this age." Does that mean that he is God Almighty? Of course not!
like I said John even tells us just 3 verses later why he wrote about Thomas story… In John 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name. If Thomas was really calling Jesus GOD almighty then John just contradicted why he wrote his writings.
The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church points out what an early Christian father, Origen (185-254 AD) says about the word "God." "The Son is theos (God), but only the Father is autotheos" (absolute God, God in himself).
This is the reason there is an Almighty God or a Most High God, in order to differentiate the only true God from the others. Another fact to consider when approaching this verse is to understand whom John believes God and Jesus to be.
John wrote his gospel to testify that Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son. Let us take a look again at what John believes in order to not take one verse and unjustly imply a certain belief on John.
John 17:3
"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
Revelation 1:6
"Who (Jesus) has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father"
John 20:17
"But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’"
Remember that John’s whole purpose for writing his Gospel is to prove that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not God.
"But these are written that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God" (John 20: 31).
We must keep John's reason for writing his gospel fresh in our minds as we try to understand this verse. In his gospel, John distinguishes completely between the only true God and Jesus Christ To imply that John believed in a three in one God would be to do a terrible injustice to John.
So what does Thomas mean? To us in the modern world it might at first seem odd, but when you put yourself in Thomas’s place as a Jew in Jesus’ day, it will make all the sense in the world.
The Catholic New American Bible defines this usage of the word god:
"The king, in courtly language is called god, representing God to the people."
Aspects of Monotheism states: "god" is an allegorical equivalent for "king."
This is the definition of the Messiah. The Messiah is the king of Israel who represents God to the people (John 1:49). Thomas was just stating that fact. When he saw Jesus resurrected, it proved to him that He was indeed the Messiah. Thomas’ statement is the equivalent of saying, My Lord and my king. This is not just my opinion; it is easily verified in the Old Testament. Remember, God = king = Messiah.
This kind of language was common in those days. Let’s look at a similar verse.
1 Samuel 24:9 states:
"David also stepped out of the cave, calling to Saul, "My lord and my king."
My lord and my God = My lord and my king.
This verse mean the same thing. Thomas is addressing the king of Israel in exactly the same way that David did. You just have to speak like a first century Jew.
Luke 2:11 states:
"A savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord."
Acts 2:36 states:
"God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified."
Lord and Messiah = Lord and king = Lord and God.
There is for me one great proof that Thomas did not mean Jesus is Almighty God when he called Jesus God. When Thomas called Jesus "My lord and my God " all the Apostles were in the room. If this statement is true, then it is logical to assume that from now on, all the Apostles know that Jesus is really God. So from that point onward Jesus should be addressed as God. But as you can see in all the writings of the New Testament, none of the Apostles ever refer to Jesus as Almighty God or YHWH . Not once in the entire New Testament do they ever pray to Jesus. They make clear distinctions between the two. They in fact write about the God of Jesus Christ (John 20:17). Remember, "No one has ever seen God" (1 John 4: 12). Same author.
There you go amigo!
Study harder!
Paul
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
the phrase "the Word was godly" is a falsehood as PROVEN by YHWH Himself = Isaiah 43:10-11
Before Me no god was formed,
and after Me none will come.
I, yes I, am the LORD,
and there is no Savior but Me.
There was none more godly then Enoch and yet Enoch was still contaminated by sin and needed a Savior.
When classify the Word as just "godly" you corrupt the Intent of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God Itself.
Since there is no other Elohim(God Plural) Before or After = then the Word is Elohim from the Beginning just as HE said.
Since there is no other Savior but Elohim = then the SON is Elohim SON with Elohim Father just as THEY said.
Since there is no other Spirit of Elohim = then the THREE are ONE just as Genesis, the Gospel and Revelation declare.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Again that is very true my friend . JESUS never said lest ye become as wise scholars ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven .
HE said lest ye become as small children .
Small children simply OBEY and BELEIVE . And GOD will give the understanding that we NEED .
Too many wrestle over what they KNOW NOT and yet i say SIMPLY BELIEVE what is written . pray for understanding , seek ye wisdom .
BUT BELIEVE what is written . DO not try and twist what is written in order to fit what a man has tuaght you . THIS MANY ALSO DO .
DO not twist the word to confirm your truth . LET THE WORD GIVE THEE THE TRUTH . FOR THE SPIRIT WILL REVEAL
what IT HAS INSPIRED . And be not hasty to be wise in your own eyes . JUST SIMPLY LEARN and LOVE What is already written .
Pray for wisdom , pray also for understanding , seek ye knowledge , but for one reason and one reason alone .
NOT TO LOOK wise , but rather so we can WALK AS WE SHOULD and HONOR GOD IN ALL THINGS .
JUST LOVE THE LORD and desire the things that are pleasing TO HIM . AND YE SHALL INDEED GROW WISE in TIME .
BUT many often DO as they do , so they can LOOK WISE , get the praise from men or whatever else can serve them .
I SAY just learn so as we can LEARN TO BETTER SERVE HE WHO HAS SAVED US . YEP . LOVE THE LORD THY GOD
with all thy heart , with all thy soul , with all thy mind , and you will love your neighbor as yourself .
AND PS , hey mark , WHO DO YOU THINK PUT THAT KIND OF LOVE INTO MY HEART , a hint IT WASNT ME
it was THE GRACE OF GOD . FOR IT desires to SERVE HIM , TO LOVE HIM ABOVE ALL . YEAH .
YE are saved by grace through faith in CHRIST . GOD CHANGES THE HEART and puts its affections ABOVE ON HE who created them .
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Jesus said these things as HE emptied Himself when HE was BEFORE ALL THINGS and the WORD became flesh.
You lack understanding in this.
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant,being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross.
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
............................
When an exhaustive examination by anyone of John's use of "God" (ho theos) and all uses of his constructions which are truly parallel to Jn 1:1c are completed, it is apparent that John's intention for John 1:1c is "And the word was a god."
Those who deny this have not done their Berean-like work of carefully and honestly studying this.
If you want to save a little time and effort (a lot of interlinear, NT grammar texts, and concordance use) you could carefully examine my personal study of John's intended meaning of Jn 1:1c. - Examining the Trinity: John 1:1c Primer - For Grammatical Rules That Supposedly "Prove" the Trinity Or, Examining the Trinity or, the original and lengthiest Examining the Trinity: DEFinite John 1:1c or, the answer to the "Quality" interpretation of Jn 1:1c by some, Examining the Trinity: QUAL ("Qualitative" John 1:1c)
For a clear example where context and grammar unmistakably agree, see in the ancient Greek translation of the OT (3 Kings 18:27 in Septuagint, 1 Kings 18:27 in Hebrew text). Here in the Greek Septuagint theos without the definite article comes before its verb (exactly as in John 1:1c) and is translated as "he is a god."
Godly men and angels called gods:
Some of these trinitarian sources which admit that the Bible actually describes men who represent God (judges, Israelite kings, etc.) and God's angels as gods include:
1. Young's Analytical Concordance of the Bible, "Hints and Helps...," Eerdmans, 1978 reprint;
2. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, #430, Hebrew and Chaldee Dict., Abingdon, 1974;
3. New Bible Dictionary, p. 1133, Tyndale House Publ., 1984;
4. Today's Dictionary of the Bible, p. 208, Bethany House Publ., 1982;
5. Hastings' A Dictionary of the Bible, p. 217, Vol. 2;
6. The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon, p. 43, Hendrickson publ.,1979;
7. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, #2316 (4.), Thayer, Baker Book House, 1984 printing;
8. The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, p. 132, Vol. 1; & p. 1265, Vol. 2, Eerdmans, 1984;
9. The NIV Study Bible, footnotes for Ps. 45:6; Ps. 82:1, 6; & Jn 10:34; Zondervan, 1985;
10. New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., footnote for Ps. 45:7, 1970 ed.;
11. A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, Vol. 5, pp. 188-189;
12. William G. T. Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, Vol. 1, pp. 317, 324, Nelson Publ., 1980 printing;
13. Murray J. Harris, Jesus As God, p. 202, Baker Book House, 1992;
14. William Barclay, The Gospel of John, V. 2, Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 77, 78, Westminster Press,1975;
15. The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible (John 10:34 and Ps. 82:6);
16. The Fourfold Gospel (Note for John 10:35);
17. Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible - Jamieson, Fausset, Brown (John 10:34-36);
18. Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:6-8 and John 10:35);
19. John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:1).
20. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament ('Little Kittel'), - p. 328, Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1985.
21. The Expositor’s Greek Testament, pp. 794-795, Vol. 1, Eerdmans Publishing Co.
22. The Amplified Bible, Ps. 82:1, 6 and John 10:34, 35, Zondervan Publ., 1965.
23. Barnes' Notes on the New Testament, John 10:34, 35.
24. B. W. Johnson's People's New Testament, John 10:34-36.
25. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, Vol. 3, p. 187.
26. Fairbairn’s Imperial Standard Bible Encyclopedia, p. 24, vol. III, Zondervan, 1957 reprint.
27. Theological Dictionary, Rahner and Vorgrimler, p. 20, Herder and Herder, 1965.
(also John 10:34, 35 - CEV: TEV; GodsWord; The Message; NLT; NIRV; David Guzik (John 10:34).
And, of course the highly respected and highly popular Jewish writer, Philo, had the same understanding for "God"/"a god" about the same time the NT was written. - See the LOGOS study.
And the earliest Christians like the highly respected NT scholar Origen and others - - including Tertullian; Justin Martyr; Hippolytus; Clement of Alexandria; Theophilus; the writer of "The Epistle to Diognetus"; and even super-Trinitarians St. Athanasius and St. Augustine - - also had this understanding for "a god." And, as we saw above, many respected NT scholars of this century agree. (For example, Ernst Haenchen tells us in his commentary on the Gospel of John:
"It was quite possible in Jewish and Christian monotheism to speak of divine beings that existed alongside and under God but were not identical with him. Phil 2:6-10 proves that. In that passage Paul depicts just such a divine being, who later became man in Jesus Christ". - John 1, translated by R. W. Funk, 1984, pp. 109, 110, Fortress Press.)
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Stop using buzz words amigo! "In the beginning".... Wow... as if it has some magical power to woo and ahh.... Let the adult here show you something special.... God has no beginning....
Let that sink in amigo!
Paul
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I had rather simply believe what is written .
In case most folks dont realize this , you do realize they are trying to make JESUS as an equal to all other
prophets in all other religoins . SEE in order to attack or change christanity
they have to ROB the diety of CHRIST so as they can say He was but just a good man and etc .
I mean if JESUS really is what even ISSIAH chapter nine says , THEN HOW can all religoins be right .
I mean IF GOD IS HIS WORD , AND HIS WORD IS HE , then WHEN HE Says YE must believe in ME
GUESS WHO ACTUALLY SAID IT . The WORDS ye hear are not MINE but HE WHO SENT ME .
Folks are doing all now to try and deconstruct the true faith so as it will then be much easier
to move us into this all religions are valid .
SEE they are also teaching the churches that budda , muhammed , Jesus , and etc
WERE ALL from GOD . And that men messed up things that were written in all religoins .
Rather odd that even the JWS tried that ol a god line .
WONDER why that bothers some so much ...........
GOD IS HIS WORD and That is a fact . Paul writes and says GOD was manifest in the flesh .
Now i understand that is not fully understood . But i only ask that folks dont deny the diety of Christ .
GOD BROUGHT SALVATION . Its like GOD is GOD but his word and his spirit are a god .
NO . HE IS HIS SPIRIT HE IS HIS WORD . JESUS IS THE VERY ESSENCE OF GOD that came forth from GOD .
And we were warned that many would be huge about STRIFES OF WORDS and etc always trying to make
a scripture say what it NEVER DID SAY .
WHEN paul wrote to the churches , or when JOHN wrote HIS GOSPEL
IT wasnt like they were writing it in some hidden form that only scholars could graps . THEY MEANT what they wrote . Its that simple .
That simple . c
In case most folks dont realize this , you do realize they are trying to make JESUS as an equal to all other
prophets in all other religoins . SEE in order to attack or change christanity
they have to ROB the diety of CHRIST so as they can say He was but just a good man and etc .
I mean if JESUS really is what even ISSIAH chapter nine says , THEN HOW can all religoins be right .
I mean IF GOD IS HIS WORD , AND HIS WORD IS HE , then WHEN HE Says YE must believe in ME
GUESS WHO ACTUALLY SAID IT . The WORDS ye hear are not MINE but HE WHO SENT ME .
Folks are doing all now to try and deconstruct the true faith so as it will then be much easier
to move us into this all religions are valid .
SEE they are also teaching the churches that budda , muhammed , Jesus , and etc
WERE ALL from GOD . And that men messed up things that were written in all religoins .
Rather odd that even the JWS tried that ol a god line .
WONDER why that bothers some so much ...........
GOD IS HIS WORD and That is a fact . Paul writes and says GOD was manifest in the flesh .
Now i understand that is not fully understood . But i only ask that folks dont deny the diety of Christ .
GOD BROUGHT SALVATION . Its like GOD is GOD but his word and his spirit are a god .
NO . HE IS HIS SPIRIT HE IS HIS WORD . JESUS IS THE VERY ESSENCE OF GOD that came forth from GOD .
And we were warned that many would be huge about STRIFES OF WORDS and etc always trying to make
a scripture say what it NEVER DID SAY .
WHEN paul wrote to the churches , or when JOHN wrote HIS GOSPEL
IT wasnt like they were writing it in some hidden form that only scholars could graps . THEY MEANT what they wrote . Its that simple .
That simple . c
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
GOD is the beginning and the ending . As far as the wise adult scholars . NO offense but no thanks .
As i wrote above , IT wasnt like the gosples were written so that only scholars could understand them .
YOU gotta FIRST BELIEVE what is written . Yall sat under men who later brought in ideas
and you learned their ways and their means and their interpretations . And claim we need to know greek or hebrew .
The thing is GOD IS IN CONTROL . I Dont need men to try and wrest things .
TOO many do that with lots of scriptures . Rather odd though , I Seem to notice
they all claim we HAVE the RIGHT UNDERSTANDING , come learn our greek or our scholars .
BUT rather odd it is that even their own g reek and hebrew and scholars interpret the greek to always mean WHAT THEY SAY IT DOES
OR TO JUSITFY their point . Adventist have one greek , the JW another greek , the prosperity preachers seem to use a greek
that justifies them too . RATHER ODD HUH . TO ME that simply means they are saying THE GREEK MEANETH THIS OR THAT
IN order to JUSTIFY THEIR OWN TEACHING . SO take that advice from this small child , my MIGHTY SCHOLARLY FRIEND .
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
When having the Holy Spirit and Knowing the LORD and His Word
It is apparent that the message of the false teachers, prophets and christs is = "the Word was a god"
Before Me no god was formed,
and after Me none will come.
I, yes I, am the LORD,
and there is no Savior but Me - Isaiah ch43
Therefore, we who hear the Voice of God know, HE who speaks Truth and he who lies.
Really again??? How many times do I have to show you guys....
It ought to be clear by now that this is the exact opposite of what is meant. The whole context of the passage is about being humble, putting God's will and glory first, and serving others’ interest above one's own interest. Although he was in "the form of God" Jesus did not reckon his God-given status as something to be exploited.
This meaning contrast well with the conduct of Adam who unfortunately did consider equality with God anything to be grasped at. Adam wanted to be like God as Genesis 3:5 teaches. Adam tried to grasp at equality with God. But Jesus would not usurp God's authority for selfish advantage. He said, "I came to serve" (Matt. 20:28), not to snatch! At his arrest in the garden, he said, "Do you not think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than 12 legions of angels?" (Matthew 26:53). As the Messiah, God's appointed King, he had every right to call for divine protection. He "emptied himself" of all such Messianic privileges.
Therefore, it can be categorically stated that Philippians 2: 5-11 has nothing to do with Jesus Christ being God in a preexistence state. The importance is really very simple and very practical: how are Christians to conduct themselves in this world? Not by imitating the man Adam who forfeited everything by a grab for power and glory, but by imitating Jesus the Messiah (v.5) who through humility and obedience to God gained it all and more. After all, if Jesus was already God, then verses 9 to 11 are nonsensical. There is no "Therefore also God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth." If he was already God, he had this before his birth! No. It is clear that God has given him a new position, a new name (authority), and a new rank that he did not previously possess.
The Greek is very clear here: dio kai means (as in Luke 1:35) "for this reason precisely." Why has God exalted Jesus to His right hand? "Therefore, God has highly exalted him and given him the name above every other name because he is back where he was before as God"? Not at all! He is given the status as a reward for the precise reason that he humbled himself and died. His exalted status is a reward. If we follow the last Adam's pattern, we too will be exalted by God when Christ returns. It is evident, then, that "this hymn does not contained what numerous interpreters seek and find in it: an independent statement about preexistence or even a Christology preexistence… No preexistence of Christ before the world with an independent significance can be recognized even in Philippians 2.
This is the creed of ALL Orthodox Christian Beliefs! All of them!
DEFINITION OF THE COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON (451 AD)
Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.
So pay close attention DAVID .... The Kenotic Doctrine claims that Jesus emptied himself of his deity. Well, you can simply read in the Chalcedon Creed that it defines Jesus’ nature as fully God and fully man at all times, without division, without separation. You cannot say that you believe in the Trinity and use this excuse. If you subscribe to the Kenotic Doctrine David, then you have already rejected the Trinity. You cannot be both.
Now... how stupid do you look using scripture to teach against your own belief!!!!
OMG!!!
Paul
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
When having the Holy Spirit and Knowing the LORD and His Word
It is apparent that the message of the false teachers, prophets and christs is = "the Word was a god"
Before Me no god was formed,
and after Me none will come.
I, yes I, am the LORD,
and there is no Savior but Me - Isaiah ch43
Therefore, we who hear the Voice of God know: HE who speaks Truth and he who lies.
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