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A debate thread.

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by wildxx, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Its called learning the word God there are parts a child could understand then there are deeper things and then deeper things it never stops teaching it is so in depth no one will ever learn it all it is set up so everyone can follow there own level of learning. He wrote it down through his choosen scribes in old time teachers taught you by word of mouth now you can read for your self. there is only one right answer to a question if two disagree then you need to look deeper to find the answer. Some churches are fine and will help others just want you to listen to them and not read for yourself it takes work and study to learn the deeper things. The question is do you love the Lord enough to take the time to learn what he has to say.
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (Ricky W;21791)
    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimDear Kriss, can you explain this 2 verses ?"And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. (Genesis 20:12)""Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen. (Deuteronomy 27:22)"Thank you for your explaination.Wallahu a'lam.
    It isnt a contradiction Ricky one was man doing what men do,sin for none is without sin except Christthe other is Gods words saying incest is a sin No different than it is today men always sin
     
  3. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    Today, there is truly so many lost sheep, yet the sheep listens to the wolves.
    Yeah, but, when it isn't obvious, how do we decide who is the sheep, and who is the wolf.I've heard people say don't listen to man, listen to God. Well, how do you know the voice of God. That's a question I've always, always had. You say, we'll know. But how? And when one person thinks the Holy Spirit or God says one thing to them, or reveals one thing to them, but someone else thinks that they're saying something contradictory to that. Who is the sheep, and who is the wolf?
    KJV are NIV are not the same bible.
    I didn't mean it that way. I know obviously the KJV and NIV aren't the same bibles.But it doesn't make sense anyways to me about translations, there shouldn't be conlicts anyways, unless its correcting a mistake, and in that case, how many have been led astray by bad translating??
     
  4. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    there is only one right answer to a question if two disagree then you need to look deeper to find the answer.
    yes, but if each are equally justifiable, than who is right and who is wrong?
    The question is do you love the Lord enough to take the time to learn what he has to say.
    This is definitely true for people who have closed minds towards the bible. They will never see either way because they have already chosen against it.But at the same time, this brings me back to my question, how can we tell God's voice.We can't for sure. We can be prompted to do certain things, but is that God? Is every choice we make a black or white, God or Satan? I don't think so. I mean, there is extremes, but there are lots of gray areas aswell.
     
  5. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (ps77;21863)
    (thesuperjag;21829)
    there is truly so many lost sheep, yet the sheep listens to the wolves.
    Yeah, but, when it isn't obvious, how do we decide who is the sheep, and who is the wolf.I've heard people say don't listen to man, listen to God. Well, how do you know the voice of God. That's a question I've always, always had. You say, we'll know. But how? And when one person thinks the Holy Spirit or God says one thing to them, or reveals one thing to them, but someone else thinks that they're saying something contradictory to that. Who is the sheep, and who is the wolf?(thesuperjag;21805)
    KJV are NIV are not the same bible.
    I didn't mean it that way. I know obviously the KJV and NIV aren't the same bibles.But it doesn't make sense anyways to me about translations, there shouldn't be conlicts anyways, unless its correcting a mistake, and in that case, how many have been led astray by bad translating??How do we know who is teaching men? By examining where his fruits are at. It is of God or is it of men? I say the same thing as the yellow highlights.AndYes there is a conflict between the two. One is Byzantine Texts. One is Alexandrian Text.Want to know more?Click the link under my sig.Jag
     
  6. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    (thesuperjag;21866)
    How do we know who is teaching men? By examining where his fruits are at. It is of God or is it of men? I say the same thing as the yellow highlights.AndYes there is a conflict between the two. One is Byzantine Texts. One is Alexandrian Text.Want to know more?Click the link under my sig.Jag
    I read that. Mostly.And I just don't get it. I mean, if the problem is translation, then how many people are being led astray. Which is the right bible? It seems to me you are considering the KJV to be the main one. And yes, if there has been any confusion for me, i have related back to my KJV. but also there are different bibles that have around 4 different versions in one. Those are helpful.But among all of these changes, and conflicts, how can we know for sure what was absolutely meant by those words. I mean, we get the main idea, thats a common theme. But the smaller things, which do make a difference, how do we discern?How do we know it's from God? My point is that one guy makes a claim about one thing, takes it from the bible, claims its from God. Another guy makes a claim about the same thing, but it conflicts the first guy's idea. It still makes sense and is taken from the bible, and he also claims its from God.An example of this is views on hell. People claim hell is eternal torment, others claim hell is not eternal torment, rather, a total destruction of the soul. No life. both take their ideas from the bible. have a significant following. and also their arguments for each make sense, from the bible, to a certain degree.my view of hell has really changed in recent months, because of my researching and studying it, in the bible and stuff.
     
  7. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (ps77;21868)
    (thesuperjag;21866)
    How do we know who is teaching men? By examining where his fruits are at. It is of God or is it of men? I say the same thing as the yellow highlights.AndYes there is a conflict between the two. One is Byzantine Texts. One is Alexandrian Text.Want to know more?Click the link under my sig.Jag
    I read that. Mostly.And I just don't get it. I mean, if the problem is translation, then how many people are being led astray. Which is the right bible? It seems to me you are considering the KJV to be the main one. And yes, if there has been any confusion for me, i have related back to my KJV. but also there are different bibles that have around 4 different versions in one. Those are helpful.But among all of these changes, and conflicts, how can we know for sure what was absolutely meant by those words. I mean, we get the main idea, thats a common theme. But the smaller things, which do make a difference, how do we discern?How do we know it's from God? My point is that one guy makes a claim about one thing, takes it from the bible, claims its from God. Another guy makes a claim about the same thing, but it conflicts the first guy's idea. It still makes sense and is taken from the bible, and he also claims its from God.An example of this is views on hell. People claim hell is eternal torment, others claim hell is not eternal torment, rather, a total destruction of the soul. No life. both take their ideas from the bible. have a significant following. and also their arguments for each make sense, from the bible, to a certain degree.my view of hell has really changed in recent months, because of my researching and studying it, in the bible and stuff.Well #1 KJV has been around for almost 4/10th of God's Day.#2 While KJV is indeed God's inspired Bible, All the other versions are copyrighted© by men. Yet KJV is not copyrighted at all.#3 On Hell, yes there is a second death, the very death of the soul. (Revelation 20:14), but there are words like "for ever and ever" which does indeed make it look like that......but however The English language falls short. Hebrew is a fixed language, whereof English is NOT a fixed language. Jag
     
  8. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    (thesuperjag;21869)
    Well #1 KJV has been around for almost 4/10th of God's Day.#2 While KJV is indeed God's inspired Bible, All the other versions are copyrighted© by men. Yet KJV is not copyrighted at all.#3 On Hell, yes there is a second death, the very death of the soul. (Revelation 20:14), but there are words like "for ever and ever" which does indeed make it look like that......but however The English language falls short. Hebrew is a fixed language, whereof English is NOT a fixed language. Jag
    Wasn't KJV translated from some other language.What makes you able to say that the KJV is the God inspired version, which implies that the others aren't. I'm sure some things in the KJV got screwed up in translation as well, as you said, the english language is not a fixed language.
     
  9. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (ps77;21875)
    (thesuperjag;21869)
    Well #1 KJV has been around for almost 4/10th of God's Day.#2 While KJV is indeed God's inspired Bible, All the other versions are copyrighted© by men. Yet KJV is not copyrighted at all.#3 On Hell, yes there is a second death, the very death of the soul. (Revelation 20:14), but there are words like "for ever and ever" which does indeed make it look like that......but however The English language falls short. Hebrew is a fixed language, whereof English is NOT a fixed language. Jag
    Wasn't KJV translated from some other language.What makes you able to say that the KJV is the God inspired version, which implies that the others aren't. I'm sure some things in the KJV got screwed up in translation as well, as you said, the english language is not a fixed language.Aramaic and Greek. That's why we study from the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance so we can get the deeper meaning of the Word. The word is still living and will forever live. (Matthew 24:35) The translators said that they did their best. Infinately better than the modern perVersions.Jag
     
  10. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    (thesuperjag;21877)
    Aramaic and Greek. That's why we study from the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance so we can get the deeper meaning of the Word. The word is still living and will forever live. (Matthew 24:35) The translators said that they did their best. Infinately better than the modern perVersions.Jag
    Oh, noble play on the word versions there. Haha.I don't think that the modern versions are perversions at all.I'm beginning to think that there are only so many ways to say the same thing.But it seems like thats the trend now. You can pick which version of the bible you want (and that includes KJV), and you can pick what you want to believe, and fit in somewhere in the many and various denominations of Christianity. Which is a problem for me.
     
  11. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (ps77;21881)
    (thesuperjag;21877)
    Aramaic and Greek. That's why we study from the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance so we can get the deeper meaning of the Word. The word is still living and will forever live. (Matthew 24:35) The translators said that they did their best. Infinately better than the modern perVersions.Jag
    Oh, noble play on the word versions there.Haha.I don't think that the modern versions are perversions at all.I'm beginning to think that there are only so many ways to say the same thing.But it seems like thats the trend now. You can pick which version of the bible you want (and that includes KJV), and you can pick what you want to believe, and fit in somewhere in the many and various denominations of Christianity. Which is a problem for me.The problem with that is that God Word's has no denominations. And I have no intention to nit pick what I want to believe. I'll stick with God and His words. I already know modern versions are corrupted really badly...for God can not be the author of confusion. (I Corinthians 14:33) and we need every word of God. (Luke 4:4), since we are made of dirt... (Genesis 2:7) ...as long we are in the flesh body, I can't prove it to you, but I already know that I reached people with Truth. Without faith, it is impossible to please Him. (Hebrews 11:6)Jag
     
  12. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    God can not be the author of confusion.
    Yes, I understand that, but man can certainly author some confusion, even when it comes from God.
    And I have no intention to nit pick what I want to believe.
    It's not even so much picking. It seems people have taken different interpretations of the same thing. So it's like, you have your interpretation, and I have mine, kinda thing.
    Without faith, it is impossible to please Him.
    Oh, I have faith, don't get me wrong. Just not in the religions of men, and that somewhat includes the religion of Christianity.
    God Word's has no denominations.
    That is exactly my problem.If God's word has no denomination. Then why do we? All calling ourselves followers of the same Word. Of the same God. And which one is the falling away, and which one is the upright path.
     
  13. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    God can not be the author of confusion.
    Yes, I understand that, but man can certainly author some confusion, even when it comes from God.(thesuperjag;21882)
    And I have no intention to nit pick what I want to believe.
    It's not even so much picking. It seems people have taken different interpretations of the same thing. So it's like, you have your interpretation, and I have mine, kinda thing.(thesuperjag;21882)
    Without faith, it is impossible to please Him.
    Oh, I have faith, don't get me wrong. Just not in the religions of men, and that somewhat includes the religion of Christianity.(thesuperjag;21882)
    God Word's has no denominations.
    That is exactly my problem.If God's word has no denomination. Then why do we? All calling ourselves followers of the same Word. Of the same God. And which one is the falling away, and which one is the upright path.1. That's a bit contradiction you have there ps77. How can a man create confusion if he teach God's Words? or how can a man teach God's Words if he creates confusion? Nobody on Earth can serve TWO masters.2. I, too, don't go by religion. To say that Christianity is a religion...That is man-made Christianity...where man-made Christianity teaches quick, and easy teaching of salvation and leave the rest of the Word away. We need the Word.I hate fast-food Christianity.3. Because MAN created denominations. To call themselves all following the same Word, same God. I got three or four scriptures for you.Matthew 16:6 - Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.Matthew 24:5 - For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.II Corinthians 11:4 - For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.Last, but not least...the same way people who calls themselves Christians.Revelation 2:9 - I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.Jag
     
  14. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    How can a man create confusion if he teach God's Words? or how can a man teach God's Words if he creates confusion? Nobody on Earth can serve TWO masters.
    Well, there are parts in the bible which bring a great amount of confusion (among people who interpret them differently), and it came from God, did it not? It's not God's words that I'm targeting here, it's the way people interpret them, or the way they go about it. People can, and have, but Bible verses behind things that are contrary to the character of God.
    Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
    The Pharisees and the Sadducees. They were these extremely religious guys, who were putting their own religious rules and regulations on the teachings of God. And they thought that they were right. Could we align that with certain churches (or denominations) these days? Am I treading on dangerous ground here? I am certain if I mentioned certain denominations then people would become offended.
    For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
    So, we relate that to ours lives today by looking out for false teaching, and relating each thing taught to us in the bible. so, if it's okay by the bible, then it's okay teaching. but what about when two different views are being okayed by the bible (seemingly), and the two teachers (one of them the false teacher) are equally backed up by the bible. who is the false teacher?
    We need the Word.
    Yes, but people interpret the word different ways.I'm really not sure how to decide who's teaching false, and who is teaching truth.
     
  15. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Do you know who is the Pharisees and Saducees ps77?Jag
     
  16. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    (thesuperjag;22207)
    Do you know who is the Pharisees and Saducees ps77?Jag

    They were these extremely religious guys, who were putting their own religious rules and regulations on the teachings of God.
    They were the Jewish leaders at the time, were they not?In charge of all the law and religious stuff for the Jews.Were they not?Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just echoing what i've been taught that they were.Which I thought was actual truth, maybe they weren't. I'll look into it.
     
  17. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (ps77;22214)
    (ps77;22214)
    (thesuperjag;22207)
    Do you know who is the Pharisees and Saducees ps77?Jag
    They were these extremely religious guys, who were putting their own religious rules and regulations on the teachings of God.They were the Jewish leaders at the time, were they not?In charge of all the law and religious stuff for the Jews.Were they not?Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just echoing what i've been taught that they were.Which I thought was actual truth, maybe they weren't.I'll look into it.Yes they are, have made their own rules, which is called tradition of men. It's NOT the Word of God.But in more details, do you know who they are? I'll tell you in my next pos if you don't know.Jag
     
  18. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    No, I'm not exactly sure exactly who they are other than what I have said.
     
  19. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Pharisees and Sudacees are aiming towards the Kenites. (sons of Cain) Satan has sex with Eve.Jag
     
  20. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    (thesuperjag;22239)
    Pharisees and Sudacees are aiming towards the Kenites. (sons of Cain) Satan has sex with Eve.Jag
    Wait what? What's this about satan and eve?
     
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