A Form of godliness

[face2face]

In your blindness, you are misunderstanding the two reasons why Jesus is the Lamb OF God.
Becareful that you don't settle for your own form of godliness, for in doing so, you will have denied the only vehicle for your salvation.

Yes, this is the issue with importing man made creed doctrines from human councils, which is "a form of godliness" and is what Christianity is left with today. The only way to truth is to have a pre Nicaea faith - that means leaving the Trinity behind and all it's complexity. Empty yourself of all you have been taught and revisit the Scripture with fresh eyes ignoring your ministers and many books. Try reading the book of the Acts of the Apostles front to back to get a sense of how the original Gospel was preached paying attention especially to the many speeches that hold keys to understanding the foundation principles of the Gospel.

Here is an example:

Acts of the Apostles 2:29 “Brothers, I can speak confidently to you about our forefather David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

David is not in Heaven - he is dead and buried and ever to this day God knows the location of his grave. The point being he along with all those asleep in the greater David are awaiting his return and the resurrection. Something as simple as this verse early on in Acts shows you the way to truth.

There is no other way to interpret this verse and is consistent with all others concerning the dead.

Enjoy
F2F

 

[Earburner]

Yes, this is the issue with importing man made creed doctrines from human councils, which is "a form of godliness" and is what Christianity is left with today. The only way to truth is to have a pre Nicaea faith - that means leaving the Trinity behind and all it's complexity. Empty yourself of all you have been taught and revisit the Scripture with fresh eyes ignoring your ministers and many books. Try reading the book of the Acts of the Apostles front to back to get a sense of how the original Gospel was preached paying attention especially to the many speeches that hold keys to understanding the foundation principles of the Gospel.

Here is an example:

Acts of the Apostles 2:29 “Brothers, I can speak confidently to you about our forefather David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

David is not in Heaven - he is dead and buried and ever to this day God knows the location of his grave. The point being he along with all those asleep in the greater David are awaiting his return and the resurrection. Something as simple as this verse early on in Acts shows you the way to truth.

There is no other way to interpret this verse and is consistent with all others concerning the dead.

Enjoy
F2F

Yes, all of such, who WERE Israel of faith in the Messiah (the Promise) to come, had their names written in the "Book of remembrance" (BoR). Malachi 3:16
Though they died in faith, being many "out of great tribulation", they were still waiting to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit through Jesus. Prior to Jesus' death, resurrection and ascension, the Holy Spirit of God could only visit upon them, but never to dwell within them permanently.
However, on the Day of Pentecost, those whose names were written in the BoR, were given the free gift of the Holy Spirit also.
We can see them under the altar in Revelation 6:9-11. Today, they are resting, now asleep in Jesus (paradise), who is The Book of Life, made ready and are NOW waiting for their resurrection upon the Day of Jesus' Glorious return, in the flaming fire of His Immortality.
Romans 8:9.

The words remembrance and altar are synonymous of people, places and/or events whereby a structure is placed for people who are living, that they should remember.
God, who is Eternal, did not forget them, who were under the altar.
They are the symbolic 144,000.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Then let me tell you of who HE was even before the world began .
IN the beginning was THE WORD and the WORD was with GOD and GOD is the Word .
And the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us .
GOD is HIS WORD , HE IS HIS SPIRIT . we are simply partakers of that SPIRIT . but not GOD .
NOW JESUS . HE IS THE WORD and GOD IS HIS WORD . ITS a mystery , but i suggest we
stick to the bible . PS , thomas knew what to say on that day . MY LORD and MY GOD . YET JESUS didnt correct HIM .
Now be encouraged . The SON OF GOD , the GLORIOUS LORD JESUS is KING of kings and LORD of Lords .
Let all that draws breath praise and thank the Glorious GOD and FATHER of our LORD and Savoir JESUS CHRIST .

It’s time to praise and thank the Lord and get digging into our bibles. The Lord’s return draws nigh.

 

[face2face]

Yes, all of such, who WERE Israel of faith in the Messiah (the Promise) to come, had their names written in the "Book of remembrance" (BoR). Malachi 3:16
Though they died in faith, being many "out of great tribulation", they were still waiting to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit through Jesus. Prior to Jesus' death, resurrection and ascension, the Holy Spirit of God could only visit upon them, but never to dwell within them permanently.
However, on the Day of Pentecost, those whose names were written in the BoR, were given the free gift of the Holy Spirit also.
We can see them under the altar in Revelation 6:9-11. Today, they are resting, now asleep in Jesus (paradise), who is The Book of Life, made ready and are NOW waiting for their resurrection upon the Day of Jesus' Glorious return, in the flaming fire of His Immortality.
Romans 8:9.

The words remembrance and altar are synonymous of people, places and/or events whereby a structure is placed for people who are living, that they should remember.
God, who is Eternal, did not forget them, who were under the altar.
They are the symbolic 144,000.

All (believers & unbelievers alike) remain dead in the ground, some of whom await the resurrection - none so far have been raised to immortality except one who is yet to come with healing in his wings! Again, your mind has been deceived to believe in immortal soulism, which is nowhere taught in the Word. Heaven contains God, Jesus Christ and the Angelic Host and that is all! The book of lives and the book of remembrance are yet to be opened!

BTW there are many books written Earburner.

There is the "Book of Death" or the book of the generations of Adam, in which all enter by virtue of birth as per Genesis 5:1.
There is the Book of Condemnation, in which the rebellious are recorded as per Isaiah 30:8-9.
There is the Book of Remembrance as per Malachi 3:16, based on the custom of the times, in which kings recorded incidents of their reign in order that those who had conducted themselves meritoriously might be rewarded as per Esther 6:1. At the judgment seat these various symbolic "books," will be opened to reveal their evidence whether for good or evil. Needless to say your theory re immortal souls being united with carcasses is ridiculous and again you have no Scripture to support such error.

I sincerely hope one day your hope will show you as much when the voice of the archangel arrives to gather, raise and sort.

F2F

 

[Earburner]

All (believers & unbelievers alike) remain dead in the ground, some of whom await the resurrection - none so far have been raised to immortality except one who is yet to come with healing in his wings! Again, your mind has been deceived to believe in immortal soulism, which is nowhere taught in the Word. Heaven contains God, Jesus Christ and the Angelic Host and that is all! The book of lives and the book of remembrance are yet to be opened!

BTW there are many books written Earburner.

There is the "Book of Death" or the book of the generations of Adam, in which all enter by virtue of birth as per Genesis 5:1.
There is the Book of Condemnation, in which the rebellious are recorded as per Isaiah 30:8-9.
There is the Book of Remembrance as per Malachi 3:16, based on the custom of the times, in which kings recorded incidents of their reign in order that those who had conducted themselves meritoriously might be rewarded as per Esther 6:1. At the judgment seat these various symbolic "books," will be opened to reveal their evidence whether for good or evil. Needless to say your theory re immortal souls being united with carcasses is ridiculous and again you have no Scripture to support such error.

I sincerely hope one day your hope will show you as much when the voice of the archangel arrives to gather, raise and sort.

F2F

Of course it sounds ridiculous to you, you want the 144,000 to be another people, except for OC Israel of faith.
Unfortunately for lack of your understatanding, you have neglected to recall that ever since Christ Ascended, there is now no difference between Jew or Gentile, and as a result, ALL who die in faith of Christ AFTER Pentecost, are of the "Great Multitude".

There will be only ONE book that will matter. The Book of Life, who is Jesus. At that time, all other books will be obsolete, even the book of Remembrance, for there will be NO names found in it.
Revelation 20[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[face2face]

Of course it sounds ridiculous to you, you want the 144,000 to be another people, except for OC Israel of faith.
Unfortunately for lack of your understatanding, you have neglected to recall that ever since Christ Ascended, there is now no difference between Jew or Gentile, and as a result, ALL who die in faith of Christ AFTER Pentecost, are of the "Great Multitude".

Once again I am not a JW and don't believe in heaven going at all.

 

[Earburner]

Once again I am not a JW and don't believe in heaven going at all.

Born again Christians who have died, are NOT in their graves. John 11[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
1Thes.4[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

I didn't say that you were JW. I am assuming that your belief of who the symbolic 144,000 are, is other than what I described.

 

[Rich R]

I made reference to Jesus' prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane. Did you read it? If not, please hear Jesus' words: John 17[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

God is a Spirit, therefore all that He is, is the "words" of His own thoughts of His Being. One might say that the words of God are God, and that God is the Being of His own words.

Let's look at Exodus 33[20] And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
What did Jesus say in John 17:5? Please read it again.
How could Jesus, a mere man by your opinion, have the audacity to make himself equal with God, unless He truly is the literal Son of God, having the glory of the Father, before the world was. I don't know about you, but I can't call Him a liar. However, your "form" of a belief system is attempting to do just that.

KJV Hebrews 1
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express [exact] image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
[4] Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

God was made better than than the angels? Who made Him that way? And who appointed God heir of all things? Who was the express image of who? God is the express image of God? Whose right hand did God sit on? God inherited a more excellent that the angels? What was He before He inherited it?

See...none of this makes any sense.

BTW, there is no such thing as a "mere" man period, let alone Jesus being one. Psalms declares that God made man just a little lower than the gods.

Ps 8:4-5,

4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.​

Note the word "angels" in verse 5 is the Hebrew word "elohiym," same word used in Genesis for "God."

 

[Rich R]

Many here do not comprehend that the Father needed the sacrifice of His Son, just as much as we do, but for different reasons, of which I have already explained.
Jesus was "the Lamb OF God, who taketh away the sin of the world". He was God the Father's sacrifice for us, as well as FOR HIMSELF, for without Jesus, God the Father could not, and wouldn't ever be able to dwell within us.
When Jesus was on the cross, he bore the sin of every person, tasting death for everyone.
God cannot look upon that which is sin!
2Cor.5[21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Yes! Jesus did exclaim it in truth! He was forsaken of God at that time.

Jesus is the living veil between us and the Father. It is only through Jesus that the Father is able to dwell within us now, and forever.
John 14:23 (edited).

Hebrews 10[16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[17] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Edit:
not Mat. 14:23, but rather John 14:23

Typical church doctrine.

 

[Earburner]

Typical church doctrine.

John 17[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Is the above verse something that you disagree with?
If so, then what do you perceive of it, other than what Jesus said?

Maybe this will help:
John 6[46] Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

BTW, since only God is the Creator, how is it that God spoke in plural, pointing to a Co-creator?
I ask you a question in a previous post. Maybe you didn't see it.

 

[amigo de christo]

It’s time to praise and thank the Lord and get digging into our bibles. The Lord’s return draws nigh.

 

[amigo de christo]

YES IT DOES DEAR SISTER . YES IT DOES .

 

[face2face]

Born again Christians who have died, are NOT in their graves. John 11[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
1Thes.4[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

I didn't say that you were JW. I am assuming that your belief of who the symbolic 144,000 are, is other than what I described.

Try proving disembodied ethereal spirits from the Bible. People die, return to dust and are raised if they are found responsible...that's sound Bible teaching.

 

[Earburner]

Try proving disembodied ethereal spirits from the Bible. People die, return to dust and are raised if they are found responsible...that's sound Bible teaching.

The question remains: John 11[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Jack]

I wonder why Joseph and Mary named him Jesus. Maybe they didn't read Isaiah?

Maybe you didn't read the NT.
Matthew 1
23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."

 

[face2face]

The question remains: John 11[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Can you see how this can be interpreted?

If death is merely a sleep as per Daniel 12:2 Acts of the Apostles 2:31 (Jesus' life not left in the grave (hades)!)

2 Corinthians 4:9 we are persecuted, but not abandoned; we are knocked down, but not destroyed, 4:10 always carrying around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be made visible in our body.

This is all we can do while we are in this nature nothing more than have the knowledge of Jesus death and its meaning in our lives, but because we have that life in us when we sleep we are waiting for his resurrection to redeem us from the grave.

So it's by faith one will never die not by having some divine essence in us - we do not have anything immortal or eternal accept the knowledge of God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

F2F

 

[face2face]

John 17[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Is the above verse something that you disagree with?
If so, then what do you perceive of it, other than what Jesus said?

Maybe this will help:
John 6[46] Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

BTW, since only God is the Creator, how is it that God spoke in plural, pointing to a Co-creator?
I ask you a question in a previous post. Maybe you didn't see it.

Because the enumerable angels were given the task of Creating. Their involvement is all over Genesis 1-11. Prolific involvement!

 

[Jack]

Because the enumerable angels were given the task of Creating. Their involvement is all over Genesis 1-11. Prolific involvement!

Are you saying that Satan may have created JW's?

 

[face2face]

Are you saying that Satan may have created JW's?

Do you get lonely Jack?

 

[Jack]

Do you get lonely Jack?

Do you need permission from Kingdom Hall to answer my question?