A Form of godliness

[Jack]

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

 

[Johann]

To be clear, I am putting AGENCY on the table.

And to be clear-Jesus was the AGENT in the creation account-NOT angelic beings.

John 1:3
Verse Concepts
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

John 1:10
Verse Concepts
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

1 Corinthians 8:6
Verse Concepts
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Colossians 1:16
Verse Concepts
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

Hebrews 1:2
Verse Concepts
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

No wonder you have me on "ignore"
Johann.

 

[marks]

All very true! But none of those verses help me understand who God's God is (understanding that John 20:17 says Jesus has the same God as you and I). Any verses that might help me with that?

When Jesus took on flesh, He took on all that goes with being a man of flesh. Including, as according to Jeremiah, that God is the God of all flesh.

So just as Jesus was baptised, same as His brothers, He also worshipped the Father, same as His brothers. He "became" a servant. He "became" obedient. Before that He was Sovereign.

Philippians 2 tells you about this.

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He wasn't "disobedient", then "became obedient", He was sovereign, and then humbled Himself, took on a different form from the form He was in, and was in the form of a servant. Before that He was in the form of God.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

I don’t know. Here is a question:

Is God and Christ equally yoked together?

Jesus said.

"If you've seen me, you've seen the Father'

'I and my Father, are One"

"you believe in GOD.... believe also in ME"

Also, of note...

"God is A Spirit" (The Holy Spirit)

"Christ is THAT Spirit'.

 

[Johann]

When Jesus took on flesh, He took on all that goes with being a man of flesh. Including, as according to Jeremiah, that God is the God of all flesh.

So just as Jesus was baptised, same as His brothers, He also worshipped the Father, same as His brothers. He "became" a servant. He "became" obedient. Before that He was Sovereign.

Much love!

I love this quote from Wuest on the 2Aorist-"Jesus, God with God-became something He was NOT before-in the likeness of a human"
Shalom brother.
Johann.

 

[Jack]

Hebrews goes in to great detail telling us that the Son is indeed God and the Father is the Son's God.

Hebrews 1 (NKJV)
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."
10 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail."
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool"?

 

[Johann]

Hebrews goes in to great detail telling us that the Son is indeed God and the Father is the Son's God.

Hebrews 1 (NKJV)
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."
10 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail."
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool"?

Irrefutable-the Deity of Messiah is under attack.
Johann.

 

[Wrangler]

I don’t know. Here is a question:

Is God and Christ equally yoked together?
Or is God and Christ unequally yoked together?

You know. You just don’t want to admit you know.

1st, Your question is denying these are 2 Beings by using ‘Is’ rather than ‘Are’ they to begin the sentence.

2nd, Then your question ends by confessing they are 2 Beings since there is nothing else to ‘yoke together.’

3rd, the inequality is not about their yoke but in their nature and hierarchical relationship. God raised Jesus from the dead. And God gave Jesus all authority in heaven and Earth. And Jesus submits his will to God. And Jesus has a God.

It is not equally the other way around, which is a requirement for equality. Jesus did not raise God from the dead. And Jesus did not give God all authority in heaven and Earth. God does not submit his will to Jesus. And while God has a Jesus, God does not have a God.

4th, The agent (Jesus) has the authority of the principle (God) when performing assigned duties but that does not make the servant the master.

To say I am yoked to the will of Bill Gates on this matter, it means I am authorized to speak on his behalf. It does not mean I am Bill Gates OR claiming to be Bill Gates.

5th, the standard of equality is equal in all ways not one way. To say a mouse and a whale are both mammals, is to mean they equally qualify as mammals. However, it’s absurd to say a mouse and a whale are equal because they share only this one attribute.

Said differently, you cannot deny inequality to claim equality where it does not exist. Scripture says many times that there is one God, the Father, period. It does not equally say anyone else is God.

Hope this helps.

 

[rockytopva]

Irrefutable-the Deity of Messiah is under attack.
Johann.

"The Deity of Messiah is under attack." And because of that this thread is locked.