"A look at Dispensationalism"

[Rex]

Interesting isn't it, you ask dispensationalist for evidence to support the very thesis they interpret the bible with and it goes crickets.

Why? because people just accept it no questions asked, everyone believe it it taught by everyone, seminary schools teach it, why question something everyone else believes in LOL.

Dispensationalism is nothing but a pair of broken glass issued to the modern congregation

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

OK. So your understanding of God is as a dispensationalist. So what? My understanding of God is that he is a Covenant God who made a promise -to the elect of God- and reiterated it and fulfilled it.

God has not fulfilled all his covenants and prophecies

There is more to come.

Some for the christian church

Some for Israel

I think the biggest problem within USA Christianity is everyone has a self centered approach ..... they think the sun shines on them alone .... to the exclusion of everyone else in the world .

The reality is North America has had a good run for 300 years (christian wise) but the bible is not about America .... never has been .... Gods big plan has never been for America ..... it has always been centered around Israel.

The USA is only 4.6% of the worlds population .... a drop in the bucket

There are about 2.1 billion Christians in the world

Only 270 million of them are in the USA

The American christian is not the center of Gods universe

Get over it.

Interesting isn't it, you ask dispensationalist for evidence to support the very thesis they interpret the bible with and it goes crickets.

Why? because people just accept it no questions asked, everyone believe it it taught by everyone, seminary schools teach it, why question something everyone else believes in LOL.

Dispensationalism is nothing but a pair of broken glass issued to the modern congregation

God made a covenant with Israel , nobody else
Jesus came and went and not all Israel accepted Him
So God then grafted in a branch for the Gentiles to partake in the Israeli covenant

Did that "Gentile branch" exist previously ?
No it did not
Can we not call this new branch a ''dispensation" ?


How long will it last ?
Until the full number of gentiles has come in.

Then what ?
The endtimes
Can we not call the endtimes another "dispensation" ?

God is a dispensationalist , and we should be too.

 

[Rex]

God made a covenant with Israel , nobody else
Jesus came and went and not all Israel accepted Him
So God then grafted in a branch for the Gentiles to partake in the Israeli covenant

I your dreams God made a covenant with Israel alone

15 Then the Angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: “By Myself I have sworn, says the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son— 17 blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”

Jesus came and went and not all Israel accepted Him
So God then grafted in a branch for the Gentiles to partake in the Israeli covenant

REALLY Please, everyone take your sharpie and remove Gen 22:18 from your bibles LOL It simple doesn't agree with Arnie.
This is Arnie's reading threw the rose colored glasses of dispensatanalisum
In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”

 

[dragonfly]

Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.


Isaiah 42:6
I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;


The whole purpose of the Saviour who was promised to Eve, coming through Israel, was SO THAT God could roll out salvation to the ends of the earth, as He had promised time and again through His word.



Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Rex
I never once said the rest of the nations would not benefit
The Gentiles certainly have been blessed
But we cannot set aside the promises to the descendents of Israel

 

[dragonfly]

But we cannot set aside the promises to the descendents of Israel

In what way is anyone doing this in this discussion?

You bring up the point again and again. It is a straw man. The children of Israel need to get their eye back on the ball, and receive what's theirs.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

In what way is anyone doing this in this discussion?

You bring up the point again and again. It is a straw man. The children of Israel need to get their eye back on the ball, and receive what's theirs.

Triggered by your post # 17 .... no big deal for me.

==========================================================

God Himself is a dispenastionalist
Here are a couple of clips

..........................................................

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

..............................................................

In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

 

[Wormwood]

In the past, God created the heavens and earth. That does not prove dispensationalism.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Dispensationalism= Dispensing their sensationalism. A modern day concoction. Talk about a way to cheat God of his Glory and to water down the faith to a point it looks like gnosticism. Corrupting the FAITH once delivered unto the saints.

 

[jiggyfly]

I'm not following what your trying to say


Dispensation is the belief that God deals with Israel differently than the Gentiles, it is a belief that their are two separate and distinctly different precepts God uses concerning the "church" and Israel. Can you make a case for dispensation?

Hello Rex and Dragonfly, go back to my initial post #2 and follow from there and it may help you to understand my last post.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi jiggyfly,

You didn't say anything in post #2 except ask a question to which JB replied, and you seem to think MH adds something to the text.

Then, you make an oblique comment which IS incomprehensible without at least one more noun in place of 'this', which might clarify whether you are suggesting Paul has adjusted scripture to fit a paradigm, or, MH, or anyone else you have in mind, such as proponents of dispensationalism.

Thanks in advance. Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

In what way is anyone doing this in this discussion?

You bring up the point again and again. It is a straw man. The children of Israel need to get their eye back on the ball, and receive what's theirs.

You are correct ..... the children of Israel certainly need to get their eye back on the ball ..... if something could be done wrong .... they have done it , no question

But God has never taken his eyes off the "ball of Israel" ..... they are still in the running ..... and one day they are back in the forefront of everything God does

Not because I say so ..... but because the bible is clear on it

Personally I dislike most of what Israel does today , or has done in the past , I am not here to pound a drum for them , or praise them , or excuse them , or promote a salvation for them outside of Christ

It is God himself who used Israel to bring the messiah (The devil hates Israel for that) ...... and the return of Jesus the Jew will be to Israel again (the devil really hates the return)

For good or for bad , God uses Israel as the example of disobedient and obedient mankind , He has chosen no other group for that purpose.

We Gentiles have benefited from that disobedience (branch grafted in) ..... but when we try to chop down the olive tree of Israel we are playing right into the devils hands

The roots of antisemitism are grounded in Satan's hatred for Israel .....because it is through Israel that God brought the one who will destroy the devil

 

[Wormwood]

Arnie,

Show me where the Bible says that national Israel will be back in the forefront of everything God does.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

here is what i said .... Everybody would agree that God deals differently with mankind ..... at different periods of time throughout history .... and into the future.

What part dont you understand ?

Did Jesus tell his disciples to build an ark in order to be saved ?
Did God tell Noah to accept Jesus as lord in order to be saved ?
Did Paul the Apostle tell the gentile Christians to sacrifice an animal for forgiveness of sin ?

Of course not .

God is a dispensationalist .... NOAH and the ark ..... MOSES and the law .... JESUS and the cross .... and so on ...

In your mind how many dispensations are there? I've heard it varies amongst dispensationalist's.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Arnie,

Show me where the Bible says that national Israel will be back in the forefront of everything God does.

Israel has always been the group God uses to deal with mankind .... 5/6 of the bible is about Israel.

The endtimes are all centered on Israel .... side effects are worldwide yes .... but in the end the main action is in Israel and Jerusalem.

In your mind how many dispensations are there? I've heard it varies amongst dispensationalist's.

never counted them ..... but I am sure there are many disagreements even among dispensationalists

Believe it or not I was never raised , or taught to be a dispensationalist by anyone ...... i came by it naturally ..... and probably my view is different that the rest ..... but it should be obvious that God deals with different people at different times in different ways ..... this should be obvious to all of us.

Even such straight forward things such as the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth will be completely different than anything else he has done so far.

If that alone is not another dispensation .... i dont know what is.

This is so utterly simple .

But Like I said earlier ..... the people who are against dispensation do so because they like to muddy up the bible into a big mush and make it say something mushy in order to make their own strange doctrines sound right.

such as:
-they dont believe in the 1000 year reign of christ
-they think they are israel
-they dont believe there will be 144,000 sealed from the 12 tribes of israel
-they think the church will suffer from the wrath of God in the tribulation
-so on and so forth.

Those people hate dispensation theology because it exposes their heresy ..... simple as that .... so they fight it tooth and nail.

 

[dragonfly]

But Like I said earlier ..... the people who are against dispensation do so because they like to muddy up the bible into a big mush and make it say something mushy in order to make their own strange doctrines sound right.

Hi Arnie,

This really is not true at all!

It sounds as if you have made up your own version of Dispensationalism, which is a pity, because if you haven't a clue what fully fledged, well-studied 'Dispensationalists' are willing to say they believe the Bible means, then you probably have no idea why people like me try not to use the word 'dispensation', even although it has an original, clean, sound meaning in scripture according to the way Paul uses it, for instance.

So I have two questions for you.

1) When did the church of Jesus Christ begin according to your own personal version of 'dispensationalism'?
(Small (d) in case it differs from (D) 'dispensationalism')

2) Would you be willing to lay down your life for your version of dispensationalism?


I look forward to your replies. Thanks.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Israel has always been the group God uses to deal with mankind .... 5/6 of the bible is about Israel.

The endtimes are all centered on Israel .... side effects are worldwide yes .... but in the end the main action is in Israel and Jerusalem.



never counted them ..... but I am sure there are many disagreements even among dispensationalists

Believe it or not I was never raised , or taught to be a dispensationalist by anyone ...... i came by it naturally ..... and probably my view is different that the rest ..... but it should be obvious that God deals with different people at different times in different ways ..... this should be obvious to all of us.

Even such straight forward things such as the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth will be completely different than anything else he has done so far.

If that alone is not another dispensation .... i dont know what is.

This is so utterly simple .

But Like I said earlier ..... the people who are against dispensation do so because they like to muddy up the bible into a big mush and make it say something mushy in order to make their own strange doctrines sound right.

such as:
-they dont believe in the 1000 year reign of christ
-they think they are israel
-they dont believe there will be 144,000 sealed from the 12 tribes of israel
-they think the church will suffer from the wrath of God in the tribulation
-so on and so forth.

Those people hate dispensation theology because it exposes their heresy ..... simple as that .... so they fight it tooth and nail.

Israel has always been the group God uses to deal with mankind .... 5/6 of the bible is about Israel.

The endtimes are all centered on Israel .... side effects are worldwide yes .... but in the end the main action is in Israel and Jerusalem.



never counted them ..... but I am sure there are many disagreements even among dispensationalists

Believe it or not I was never raised , or taught to be a dispensationalist by anyone ...... i came by it naturally ..... and probably my view is different that the rest ..... but it should be obvious that God deals with different people at different times in different ways ..... this should be obvious to all of us.

Even such straight forward things such as the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth will be completely different than anything else he has done so far.

If that alone is not another dispensation .... i dont know what is.

This is so utterly simple .

But Like I said earlier ..... the people who are against dispensation do so because they like to muddy up the bible into a big mush and make it say something mushy in order to make their own strange doctrines sound right.

such as:
-they dont believe in the 1000 year reign of christ
-they think they are israel
-they dont believe there will be 144,000 sealed from the 12 tribes of israel
-they think the church will suffer from the wrath of God in the tribulation
-so on and so forth.

Those people hate dispensation theology because it exposes their heresy ..... simple as that .... so they fight it tooth and nail.

I like your tenacity. Nevertheless, I think covenant understanding of scripture to be the most accurate, however I believe in the thousand year reign of Christ on earth. I believe in believers baptism ONLY and I think the elect are the Israel of God.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

It sounds as if you have made up your own version of Dispensationalism,
I look forward to your replies. Thanks.

Not sure I would call it my own version

But you may have a point ..... when I use the word dispensation , maybe it has a totally different meaning to me than others.