A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

[Angel Faith]

That is absurd. When the JW,s were in the concentration camps being murdered, Rutherford would not support Hitler ever. Maybe they twist what Rutherford said.
I never heard pictures were idols. Idolotry lives within one.

If that is true then there would be no issue with Christmas trees.
Christians do not worship Christmas trees. Or their nativity in the front yard.

Christmas isn't pagan because pagans Yule, winter solstice, falls on December 21st.

 

[Angel Faith]

One other thing we might consider. If JW's are to have nothing to do with unbelievers why would they join a Protestant Christian forum?

Are Jehovah’s Witnesses Protestants?​

 

[Keiw]

If that is true then there would be no issue with Christmas trees.
Christians do not worship Christmas trees. Or their nativity in the front yard.

Christmas isn't pagan because pagans Yule, winter solstice, falls on December 21st.

They turned the pagan false god worship saturnalia festival into christmas. Feasting and the exchanging of gifts, worship to the sun God on or around Dec 25th.
Santa unscrambles to-satan--he steals 98% of christmas away from Jesus. Plus parents tell their children a lie about santa claus and associate it with Jesus. It has 0 to do with worshipping anything, it has to do with partaking off the table of demons-1Cor 10:21

 

[Angel Faith]

They turned the pagan false god worship saturnalia festival into christmas. Feasting and the exchanging of gifts, worship to the sun God on or around Dec 25th.
Santa unscrambles to-satan--he steals 98% of christmas away from Jesus. Plus parents tell their children a lie about santa claus and associate it with Jesus. It has 0 to do with worshipping anything, it has to do with partaking off the table of demons-1Cor 10:21

Sun-day worship is pagan also. Moving from the Sabbath day to appease Rome so that Christians and pagans worshiping Saturlina,the sun, did so on the same day.

The days of our calendar week are pagan god and goddess names.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You are in error. JW,s do not say those are worshipping Idols. There are many false Gods being worshipped. But as far as the holidays go, its a matter of partaking off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) that is being done. The encyclopedias are filled with facts clearly showing the added pagan practices off the table of demons in many worlds celebrations, including Easter and Christmas.
Valentines day has a true life false god attached=Cupid, was worshipped for centuries by the Greeks. One of satans #1 tools, mislead the parents so they hand down to their own children pagan practices off the table of demons. It occurs from generation to generation.
Christmas-was the saturnalia festival, Exchanging of Gifts and feasting marked that celebration, worship to the sun God. The new Catholic encyclopedia says-- On Dec 25 274-Aurelian had proclaimed the sun God principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome. Not to mention santa unscrambles to satan, and he steals 98% of that holiday. And associating a lie about a santa claus to ones own children and applying it to a celebration to Jesus.
Easter--The Catholic Encyclopedia says-- A great many pagan customs celebrating the return of spring gravitated to Easter. The egg and rabbit is a pagan symbol an emblem of infertility.) The dyed eggs of Pasch, and hot cross buns taken from the Chaldean rites of spring.
In the 2 babylons by Alexander Hislop-- The very name easter comes from Chaldean origin. Easter is nothing less than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven, Whose name As found by Layard on the Assyrian monuments Is Ishtar( pronounced-easter)

I hope this clears it up for you.

1Cor10:21--One CANNOT partake off the table of God and the table of demons.

Yes we know all about the superficials or symbos.

But tell me do you think if people celebrate Christmas with these trappings to honor the birth of the Lord- they are doing so with things sacrificed to idols?

Here is the passage:

1 Corinthians 10:19-21

King James Version

​

19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

Are you saying Christmas trees, decorations, eggs, rabbits have all been sacrificed to idols?

 

[Keiw]

Yes we know all about the superficials or symbos.

But tell me do you think if people celebrate Christmas with these trappings to honor the birth of the Lord- they are doing so with things sacrificed to idols?

Here is the passage:

1 Corinthians 10:19-21​

​

King James Version​

​

​

19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

Are you saying Christmas trees, decorations, eggs, rabbits have all been sacrificed to idols?

A thousand years is as a day to God, so its been less than 2 days since God saw the false christian religion implement pagan false god worship practices into what they try to hand to Jesus. In the end its Gods view that means it all. No i say they originated off the table of demons from false god worship ceremonies.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

A thousand years is as a day to God, so its been less than 2 days since God saw the false christian religion implement pagan false god worship practices into what they try to hand to Jesus. In the end its Gods view that means it all. No i say they originated off the table of demons from false god worship ceremonies.

But do people worship demons when they put up a Christmas tree? That is what I asked?

Adn the 1,000 year bit is a metaphor!

 

[Aldebaran]

They turned the pagan false god worship saturnalia festival into christmas. Feasting and the exchanging of gifts, worship to the sun God on or around Dec 25th.
Santa unscrambles to-satan--he steals 98% of christmas away from Jesus. Plus parents tell their children a lie about santa claus and associate it with Jesus. It has 0 to do with worshipping anything, it has to do with partaking off the table of demons-1Cor 10:21

It's also an occasion where Christians highlight the birth of Christ and his purpose on that day, even if it wasn't the actual day He was born. It's still an occasion that Christians can use for His glory. I'd say that's better than just ignoring the day altogether, or protesting it as pagan.
Even Paul the Apostle was able (in Acts 17) to talk to those in Athens about Christ by using their extensive idol worship to introduce them to Christ.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It's also an occasion where Christians highlight the birth of Christ and his purpose on that day, even if it wasn't the actual day He was born. It's still an occasion that Christians can use for His glory. I'd say that's better than just ignoring the day altogether, or protesting it as pagan.
Even Paul the Apostle was able (in Acts 17) to talk to those in Athens about Christ by using their extensive idol worship to introduce them to Christ.

There is so much attached to Christmas that is pagan in origin, I have difficulty understanding how “Christians” can have anything to do with it. When I found out where these customs come from, I was appalled and dropped Christmas because I knew it would be offensive to God and his son.

Christ is not honored by those who paint a totally different picture of Christ’s birth than what is stated in the Bible.

1) No one knows the date of Jesus’ birth, so adopting a pagan celebration on a date celebrated by those who honored a false god, is unconscionable! It is offensive to the true God who told his people NOT to touch spiritually “unclean” things.....and it is offensive to his son who never said thing about birthdays because these were not celebrated by God’s people on account of their pagan connection to spiritism.

2) Reading Matthew Ch 2 tells a vastly different story to what Christendom believes it does......
The birth of Christ was not announced to pagan Babylonian astrologers, but to Jewish shepherds who were tending their flocks outdoors at night...something they would not have done in the cold of winter.

The magi (whose name is derived from “magic”) were practicers of what God condemned, so when they saw “his star” their journey to follow that star did not lead them to Jesus but to Herod, who then hatched a plot to have him murdered. Only after Herod had determined to kill the new “king of the Jews” did the star lead them directly to the house (not the stable) where Jesus was no longer a newborn, but a “young child” and living in a “house” with his parents. Herod had all the babies “two years of age and under” put to death after having ascertained the time of the star’s appearance from the astrologers, and the foretold place of his birth in Jewish scripture.

The star that takes pride of place on Christmas trees is really honouring satan’s attempt to have Jesus killed. How offensive is that?

Read up on what Saturnalia meant to the Romans and what contribution pagan Norse trappings were added over time to create “Christmas”. I cannot imagine anything more offensive to Yahweh!...except perhaps Easter, which didn’t even try to be “Christian” because they retained the name of the pagan fertility goddess who was honored at that time of year. Rabbits and eggs were her symbols, and are still the main feature for most people, especially children. Hot cross buns were pagan too....deftly adjusted to fit in with the “cross” of Christ.

The cross was never a symbol of early Christianity. Since the first Christians were all Jewish, no images were ever used in worship. They knew what God had stated in the Ten Commandments.....not to “make images of anything” to be used in worship. (Exodus 20:4-5) This would include statuary and icons that take pride of place in buildings that are supposedly used for the worship of the true God, and which symbols are often used to decorate the homes and bodies of those who think it appropriate to wear a cross as jewellery or as a statement of one’s Christian stance or as a member of the clergy. That is idolatry.

Not all images are condemned in the scriptures, only those used in connection with our worship. Like other things, the cross became an idol in apostate Christendom, hundreds of years after Christ’s death. The “weeds” introduced many things over time.....you can trace all your religious doctrines back to the RCC....which in turn can be traced back to Babylon. Who do you think “Babylon the great “ is, and why we are told to get out of her? (Revelation 18:4-8) Original Babylon was the springboard for all the world’s false religions....it is a global empire created by the god of this world. All worship that does not go to the true God, goes to this ‘wannabe’ god by default.

If you can research these things and not feel the same disgust as we do on finding out where these cherished activities come from, then the heart has been taken over by someone who is not the true God. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) According to the scriptures, it is the despised “few” who are on the cramped road to life, but the “many” who are on the wrong road, a super highway to destruction. (Matthew 7:13-14, 21-23; John 15:18-21)

The day will come when God reveals all.....and we will all know then, if we have ‘shaped up’ or whether we will ‘ship out’...

 

[Keiw]

But do people worship demons when they put up a Christmas tree? That is what I asked?

Adn the 1,000 year bit is a metaphor!

It has nothing to do with worshipping it. Pagan false god worship practices come off the table of demons. That is the bottom line.

 

[Keiw]

It's also an occasion where Christians highlight the birth of Christ and his purpose on that day, even if it wasn't the actual day He was born. It's still an occasion that Christians can use for His glory. I'd say that's better than just ignoring the day altogether, or protesting it as pagan.
Even Paul the Apostle was able (in Acts 17) to talk to those in Athens about Christ by using their extensive idol worship to introduce them to Christ.

How is it for Jesus' Glory when he wouldnt accept anything less than 100% Satan claus starts Friday and runs for a whole month, Dec 25th morning-satan claus first.
The bible says this-By the traditions of men you make the word of God invalid.) There is no Christmas in the bible.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Even Paul the Apostle was able (in Acts 17) to talk to those in Athens about Christ by using their extensive idol worship to introduce them to Christ.

Just to answer that point specifically.....

Paul was addressing pagans among whom were Epicurean and the Stoic philosophers, and he was absolutely disgusted by the amount of idolatry that was practiced by them. (Acts 17:16) Their innumerable gods all had their alters of devotion and they even had an alter to an “unknown god” so that they would not anger their gods by missing any of them. Paul seized on this opportunity to introduce the God that they did not know. Paul was keen to introduce these pagan worshippers to a God that they already believed possibly existed, but who was not known to them.

This is in no way a sanction to use paganism to promote Christianity. When a pagan worshipper became a Christian, he was to leave all aspects of false worship behind, and take up the true worship of Yahweh. There was to be “no sharing” of true worship with false worship. (2 Corinthians 6:14-16) These aspects of false worship, God says are an abomination. He warned his people not to adopt the ways of the Canaanites because their worship was satanic. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

 

[Angel Faith]

It has nothing to do with worshipping it. Pagan false god worship practices come off the table of demons. That is the bottom line.

You said that before yet you haven't actually answered the question.

 

[Angel Faith]

How is it for Jesus' Glory when he wouldnt accept anything less than 100% Satan claus starts Friday and runs for a whole month, Dec 25th morning-satan claus first.
The bible says this-By the traditions of men you make the word of God invalid.) There is no Christmas in the bible.

Are you one of God's predestined 144,000?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Sun-day worship is pagan also. Moving from the Sabbath day to appease Rome so that Christians and pagans worshiping Saturlina,the sun, did so on the same day.

The days of our calendar week are pagan god and goddess names.

There is no command for Gentiles to hold a Sabbath. It was for Jews only as part of the covenant made with their God.
Like circumcision, it was only mandated for Israel. (Exodus 31:16-17)
When Gentiles were added to the Congregations, there was no requirement for them to be circumcised or to observe the Sabbath....even the Jewish Christians were not obligated to keep a law that Jesus had already fulfilled.
A new covenant was instituted which brought all of Christ's disciples into one united brotherhood, no matter what nation they came from. (Acts 10:34-35)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Are you one of God's predestined 144,000?

You know the world is full of ignorant people who make comments like that, and make us just roll our eyes.....what a seriously dumb question.....you have no idea what you are talking about.

No one is "predestined"...that is not in our beliefs at all. One has to 'prove themselves faithful to the death' to qualify to be among the 144,000. These are the elect who will rule with Christ....each personally chosen by God for the role they will play as "kings and priests" in the heavenly kingdom of God. (Revelation 20:6; Revelation 21:1-4)

The 144,000 are a finite number, "chosen from among mankind as firstfruits" (Revelation 14:1-5)......which means that there is to be a secondary gathering of their subjects. 'Kings' do not rule one another and 'priests' need sinner for who to perform their priestly duties. They will rule over the infinite number who will enjoy the blessings of the Kingdom on earth, where God put us humans in the first place.

Not all Christians have the "heavenly calling" (Hebrews 3:1)

1 Corinthians 1:2..
"To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours".

You have to be "called" to be a "saint" (holy one).....and you can see from Paul's words here that he is speaking about two different groups and Jesus Christ is "Lord" of both.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Well as you are imply some kind of holy day of obligation, I agree with you. But as I am simply saying celebrate to honor Jehovah Jesus- they are fine. There is no command to celebrate, nor is there a command to not celebrate. that means Romans 14 is the operating passage to guide on whether they will or not.

You saying, "I am simply saying celebrate to honor Jehovah or Jesus- they are fine," is going by what a imperfect human or what imperfect humans say is fine. What is the day and way the inspired scriptures tells us to remember Jesus? Isn't that day and way more important than what imperfect humans say? I just think people care too much about what imperfect humans say instead of what YHWH God inspired word is telling us.

 

[Keiw]

You said that before yet you haven't actually answered the question.

What question?

 

[Keiw]

Are you one of God's predestined 144,000?

No i am not. A member of the great crowd i hope in. The little flock( Luke 12:32) makes up the 144,000

 

[Angel Faith]

What question?

OK.
God Bless.