A sign which shall be spoken against:

[VictoryinJesus]

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: [26] Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

See that you refuse not him that speaks. “If we turn away from him that speaks from heaven.”Luke 9:35-36 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. [36] And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

When I think of earth quake I think of when He speaks; heaven and earth are moved. Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 

[Robert Gwin]

With all do respect I’m not sure how an earth quake tossed bodies out of coffins and, “those bodies went into the holy city and appeared unto many.” First someone “opened the graves” as He said He would yes? Matthew 27:50-54 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. [51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; [52] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Do see: Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Hebrews 12:22-29 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, [24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. [25] See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: [26] Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. [27] And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. [28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [29] For our God is a consuming fire.

Jehovah's witnesses do not believe those bodies were resurrected. The Bible does not go into great detail about the incident, but we explain it the way I explained it to you. It is true that 9 people were recorded as receiving a resurrection, and of course they died again. If those bodies were resurrected, they too died again. Although it is a possibility, we wouldn't think that has anything to do with the promised resurrection found in John 8:28,29, in which is supposed to be the permanent resurrection to life everlasting.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The dead BODIES are certainly in their graves. But the souls and spirits of the saints are in Heaven. Soul sleep is utter nonsense. "Sleep" is a metaphor for the death of the saints, since a body when first laid in the grave gives the appearance of sleep. There are no souls six feet under.

We agree Enoch of the saints being in heaven, with the exception of those still alive which will meet the Lord in the air upon his return. We believe the first resurrection happened sometime after Jesus was enthroned as King sir. Rev 20:6

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jehovah's witnesses do not believe those bodies were resurrected. The Bible does not go into great detail about the incident, but we explain it the way I explained it to you. It is true that 9 people were recorded as receiving a resurrection, and of course they died again. If those bodies were resurrected, they too died again. Although it is a possibility, we wouldn't think that has anything to do with the promised resurrection found in John 8:28,29, in which is supposed to be the permanent resurrection to life everlasting.

Of course we disagree there but that is okay. It is odd how we all see things so differently yeah? we could argue and debate all day bashing one another and neither of us would benefit a thing. You are gentle in your words. When He said some of those saints arose and came out of their graves …for me I question was it those saints passing from death unto Life, passing from darkness into Light…could those saints resurrected following Him be His disciples; witnessed of many that “they live”? Could it be those saints that were asleep when the graves opened, they awoke unto Christ and came forth out of the grave “tombs” upon receiving the Holy Spirit …could those saints be His disciples which went forth in to the Holy city and were made manifest and seen of many? Don’t we remain in the grave unto He calls: “wake up thou that sleeps, Awake unto Christ and He will give thee Light!”?

see that you refuse not Him which calls you…have to ask wouldn’t refusing Him be to remain in the grave when He says come forth from the dead and darkness, I will give you Light?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Of course we disagree there but that is okay. It is odd how we all see things so differently yeah? we could argue and debate all day bashing one another and neither of us would benefit a thing. You are gentle in your words. When He said some of those saints arose and came out of their graves …for me I question was it those saints passing from death unto Life, passing from darkness into Light…could those saints resurrected following Him be His disciples; witnessed of many that “they live”? Could it be those saints that were asleep when the graves opened, they awoke unto Christ and came forth out of the grave “tombs” upon receiving the Holy Spirit …could those saints be His disciples which went forth in to the Holy city and were made manifest and seen of many? Don’t we remain in the grave unto He calls: “wake up thou that sleeps, Awake unto Christ and He will give thee Light!”?

see that you refuse not Him which calls you…have to ask wouldn’t refusing Him be to remain in the grave when He says come forth from the dead and darkness, I will give you Light?

Just one more reasoning point on it maam and then I will shut up on it. You called them saints, which of course is fine as it is they that will rise first, perhaps this may help in defining the timeline in which that will occur. Is it reasonable to conclude that they came to life, hence the fulfillment of the first resurrection written about those who were called to be saints Rev 20:6 over 50 yrs before it was penned into the Bible as being yet still future? Secondly is it logical that they would be resurrected prior to Jesus' ascension into heaven to present his sacrifice in our behalf to God? Third, the saints, called to be holy ones are baptized into the holy spirit, the holy spirit was not poured out on the saints until 50 days after Jesus ascended to heaven, thus starting the gathering of those of the little flock?

Just something to reason on maam. That is why we do not think they were resurrected, or came to life, but I definitely understand why you would think so, anyone just reading that account would obviously think they did, that is why the Bible has to be taken as a whole.

 

[Heart2Soul]

ive been on this forum for almost three years, and never placed one person on ignore. I just sent two individuals to the ignorant folder. You should try it….. very liberating.

Please explain this comment...
Nevermind, I figured it out.

 

[Enoch111]

We believe the first resurrection happened sometime after Jesus was enthroned as King sir. Rev 20:6

Then we are already 1,000 years past the Millennium. Which would mean we are already in the New Heavens and the New Earth (according to you). However, since sin and evil are increasing exponentially, it is clear that you have misinterpreted Revelation 20.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Just one more reasoning point on it maam and then I will shut up on it. You called them saints, which of course is fine as it is they that will rise first, perhaps this may help in defining the timeline in which that will occur. Is it reasonable to conclude that they came to life, hence the fulfillment of the first resurrection written about those who were called to be saints Rev 20:6 over 50 yrs before it was penned into the Bible as being yet still future? Secondly is it logical that they would be resurrected prior to Jesus' ascension into heaven to present his sacrifice in our behalf to God? Third, the saints, called to be holy ones are baptized into the holy spirit, the holy spirit was not poured out on the saints until 50 days after Jesus ascended to heaven, thus starting the gathering of those of the little flock?

Just something to reason on maam. That is why we do not think they were resurrected, or came to life, but I definitely understand why you would think so, anyone just reading that account would obviously think they did, that is why the Bible has to be taken as a whole.

I get all your questions. For me there are enough unanswered questions I have concerning it, that shows me I don’t have it figured out. So I wouldn’t assert another as right or wrong on something with so many unanswered questions. I do see what you are suggesting and I don’t know. For me it is the rocks were rent which Peters name is connected to… and the veil torn top to bottom and some that sleep awakened and came out of the graves and were witnessed of many. just thoughts but “graves opened”, tombs opened…could be hearts opened to receive Him. The veil over hearts torn top to bottom, rocks rent. As the passage 1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Again, just a question concerning proposing they may have come out from the grave, but they were given bodies that would die again after coming forth out from the grave. graves He opened as said He would open to reveal them. If they were given bodies and seen of many …then would Christ Jesus who also appeared to many, be said to also have to die again? Acts 13:29,31-34 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. [31] And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. [32] And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, [33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. [34] And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

See: he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem,
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again;
And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption

then we say: they may have been bodies seen of many resurrected when He opened the graves…but they would have to die again. Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (The same way He appeared unto them many days).
Did He have to die again?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I get all your questions. For me there are enough unanswered questions I have concerning it, that shows me I don’t have it figured out. So I wouldn’t assert another as right or wrong on something with so many unanswered questions. I do see what you are suggesting and I don’t know. For me it is the rocks were rent which Peters name is connected to… and the veil torn top to bottom and some that sleep awakened and came out of the graves and were witnessed of many. just thoughts but “graves opened”, tombs opened…could be hearts opened to receive Him. The veil over hearts torn top to bottom, rocks rent. As the passage 1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Again, just a question concerning proposing they may have come out from the grave, but they were given bodies that would die again after coming forth out from the grave. graves He opened as said He would open to reveal them. If they were given bodies and seen of many …then would Christ Jesus who also appeared to many, be said to also have to die again? Acts 13:29,31-34 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. [31] And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. [32] And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, [33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. [34] And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

See: he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem,
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again;
And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption

then we say: they may have been bodies seen of many resurrected when He opened the graves…but they would have to die again. Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (The same way He appeared unto them many days).
Did He have to die again?

but there is also https://biblehub.com/lexicon/2_peter/1-14.htm

 

[Robert Gwin]

Then we are already 1,000 years past the Millennium. Which would mean we are already in the New Heavens and the New Earth (according to you). However, since sin and evil are increasing exponentially, it is clear that you have misinterpreted Revelation 20.

How long did Jesus sit at God's right hand before his enemies were made his footstool sir? Perhaps you are overlooking that, thinking he was made King instantly. Keep in mind when Jesus did receive the crown, a generation would not pass before the tribulation happens. Perhaps that may help in discerning the time period we are currently living in.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I get all your questions. For me there are enough unanswered questions I have concerning it, that shows me I don’t have it figured out. So I wouldn’t assert another as right or wrong on something with so many unanswered questions. I do see what you are suggesting and I don’t know. For me it is the rocks were rent which Peters name is connected to… and the veil torn top to bottom and some that sleep awakened and came out of the graves and were witnessed of many. just thoughts but “graves opened”, tombs opened…could be hearts opened to receive Him. The veil over hearts torn top to bottom, rocks rent. As the passage 1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Again, just a question concerning proposing they may have come out from the grave, but they were given bodies that would die again after coming forth out from the grave. graves He opened as said He would open to reveal them. If they were given bodies and seen of many …then would Christ Jesus who also appeared to many, be said to also have to die again? Acts 13:29,31-34 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. [31] And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. [32] And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, [33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. [34] And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

See: he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem,
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again;
And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption

then we say: they may have been bodies seen of many resurrected when He opened the graves…but they would have to die again. Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (The same way He appeared unto them many days).
Did He have to die again?

As I said, I certainly understand why you feel that way, reading only those verses I would believe it as well. Those Jesus appeared to however, were those he was associated with during his ministry Maam. The Bible clearly teaches he remained on earth for a while after his resurrection, I agree fully on that.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

A sign which shall be spoken against:
For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed,

Acts 4:24-31 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: [25] Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? [26] The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. [27] For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, [28] For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. [29] And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, [30] By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. [31] And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

2 Corinthians 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but [only]for the truth.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

How long did Jesus sit at God's right hand before his enemies were made his footstool sir? Perhaps you are overlooking that, thinking he was made King instantly. Keep in mind when Jesus did receive the crown, a generation would not pass before the tribulation happens. Perhaps that may help in discerning the time period we are currently living in.

love: Psalm 109:21-31 But do thou for me, O God the Lord, for thy name's sake: because thy mercy is good, deliver thou me. [22] For I am poor and needy, and my heart is wounded within me. (Isaiah 57:15)[23] I am gone like the shadow when it declineth: I am tossed up and down as the locust. [24] (Isaiah 35:3-6)My knees are weak through fasting; and my flesh faileth of fatness. [25] I became also a reproach unto them: when they looked upon me they shaked their heads. [26] Help me, O Lord my God: O save me according to thy mercy: [27] That they may know that this is thy hand; that thou, Lord, hast done it. [28] Let them curse, but bless thou: (Luke 6:27-28)(Matthew 5:44-45)when they arise, let them be ashamed; but let thy servant rejoice.(Philippians 4:4) [29] Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame, and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle. [30] I will greatly praise the Lord with my mouth; yea, I will praise him among the multitude. [31] For he shall stand at the right hand of the poor, to save him from those that condemn his soul.