A stick in the mud

[JLB]

I'll still stick with my original statement. Relationships are more important than doctrinal correctness.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

• does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.

To have God means to have a relationship with God.


Those that don’t remain in the doctrine of Christ, do not remain in Christ.


Here is an example of what Christ taught:


“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 6:14-15

• if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

If you no longer have the ability to have your sins forgiven, then you are in your sins just as an unbeliever.

 

[Matthias]

Why don’t you identify as a follower of Jesus Christ, a Christian, like the apostle Peter?


Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.
1 Peter 4:16

I do. I’m a primitive Christian, not a Nicene Christian. I changed my registration because some of the Nicene Christians objected strenuously to me being allowed to become a member. I did it for them and it has worked out well for them and for me.

 

[JLB]

I do. I’m a primitive Christian, not a Nicene Christian. I changed my registration because some of the Nicene Christians objected strenuously to me being allowed to become a member. I did it for them and it has worked out well for them and for me.

What in the world is a Nicene Christian?

Just be a Christian; a follower of Christ.

 

[Matthias]

What in the world is a Nicene Christian?

A Christian who affirms the Nicene Creed; a trinitarian.

Just be a Christian; a follower of Christ.

I am.

 

[JLB]

A Christian who affirms the Nicene Creed; a trinitarian.

Sir, Nicene Creed and trinitarian are words that are not in the scriptures.

I am.

Amen.

I believe that. You are God's child, born of the Spirit.

 

[Wick Stick]

I've always said that doctrine does not save us but our belief and obedience to God does.

Yes, that's causation. Obeying God results in not making mistakes, which results in not reaping the consequences of mistakes, which we could call a state of safety, which is the definition of salvation.

We could have our doctrine wrong and still be saved, of course.

Yes. One could run directly towards the edge of a cliff and still be saved... by someone grabbing them and stopping them. That doesn't seem like a good plan, but it might go down that way.

Jesus never said that we are to have a "relationship" with Him.
What He taught is that we are to be born from above....

Being "born from above" puts us into a relationship with Him, whether the NT uses that exact word or not.

In Matthew 7:23
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Jesus says I NEVER KNEW YOU, but look, immediately after He states why.....
because they were lawless.

So I believe firmly that we are to have a relationship with Jesus,,,,
but as HE directed....
not to believe in some kind of mental belief...
but to follow Him and do as He instructed.

I think the OP is meaning to say this...

I don't think I was too far away from understanding.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, that's causation. Obeying God results in not making mistakes, which results in not reaping the consequences of mistakes, which we could call a state of safety, which is the definition of salvation.

Agreed.
Salvation is not only salvation from hell, but also salvation from the consequences of sin right now.
It's good to hear this from someone - not too many ever state this.

Jesus said we will know the truth and it will make us free.
Same idea. Free from what?
(the wiles of satan - the oppression).

Yes. One could run directly towards the edge of a cliff and still be saved... by someone grabbing them and stopping them. That doesn't seem like a good plan, but it might go down that way.

I had stated that our doctrine does not save us.
If it does, then a huge chuck of Christians is in trouble because I hear so many different teachings on these Forums.
I believe God will be merciful if we get a biblical teaching wrong and will do as Paul said (and Jesus):

Paul:
Romans 2:6
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

John 5:29
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

AFTER salvation of course since our works do not save us, but only faith in God.

IOW, I don't care for the teachings of Calvinism...but that does not mean that those that follow Calvinist teachings are not saved.

Being "born from above" puts us into a relationship with Him, whether the NT uses that exact word or not.

Of course. I think I stated this.
If we FOLLOW someone, we automatically have a relationship with that person.

I don't think I was too far away from understanding.

Seems like you were,
My apologies if I was wrong---that's why I tagged you in instead of just mentioning "another member".