A SURE SALVATION

[Doug]

He told believers to examine themselves ~2 Corinthians 13:5.

Yes they were to examine their walk................
[Colossians 2:6 KJV] "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him:"
[Colossians 2:7 KJV] "Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving."

 

[Doug]

have to disagree

ok

 

[Doug]

we that are saved are a royal priesthood

1 Peter 2​

Peter was speaking to believing Jews

 

[Ezra]

Peter was speaking to believing Jews

your going to have get past the Jews honestly the Bible is for the christian born again '


this is your quote
{All scripture is profitable but I dont apply what is meant for Israel. I can apply what conforms to what was revealed to Paul by Jesus.}

what your saying just dont compute i fail to see where it says the believing Jews only . this is why i asked if you was saying there was 2 different set of scriptures

Galatians 3:28
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New King James Version
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28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. when it says all scripture ,,THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS

 

[bdavidc]

Thats right but not saying to judge others by their fruits

When Christ said, “Ye shall know them by their fruits” ~Matthew 7:16, He was not speaking poetically. He was issuing a test. You don’t know from sentiment; you know from evidence. Fruit is observable or the warning is meaningless. Jesus was not warning against private motives behind closed hearts. He was warning against public profession, teaching, and life that is either in agreement with truth or in open rebellion against it.

Paul did not water this down. He intensified it. He commanded believers to test what they hear ~1 Thessalonians 5:21, mark those who walk contrary to doctrine ~Romans 16:17, and remove from fellowship those whose lives openly deny the gospel ~1 Corinthians 5:11. Fruit is not the basis of justification but the evidence of regeneration. Paul says the fruit of the Spirit is manifest ~Galatians 5:22–23, not hidden, not theoretical.

What Scripture condemns is hypocritical judgment that refuses to see one’s own sin ~Matthew 7:1–5. What Scripture commands is discernment that protects truth and exposes falsehood. If we cannot judge fruit, then Christ’s warning against false prophets falls apart and Paul’s commands become disobedience.

The issue here is not humility. It is whether we will let Scripture say what it says. Jesus judged fruit. Paul judged fruit. Refusing to do so does not honor grace. It resists the authority of Christ.

 

[saved by grace 101]

We arent to judge if one is a Christian by their behavior, that was said for Israel to know who a true believer in the tribulation was.

The bible speaks of sin in two different ways, so does Paul. You really need to embrace his message completely, not just the parts you like
In Rom ch6 he tells the Romans they USED to be slaves to sin, but by following his gospel message they changed from that condition. He twice states in that chapter if you are a slave to sin it leads to death
So a person joins a church, they are a constant blasphemer, have multiple affairs, beats their wife continually, are a habitual thief and gets drunk every night/they are a slave to sin /sin rules their life. They claim to have gotten saved, and, according to Paul's message they would instantly be placed in a justified stated under a righteousness of faith in Christ.
However, three months later say, they still constantly blaspheme, they still constantly beat their wife, they still constantly have affairs, they still get drunk every night and they are still a habitual thief. According to you, their behaviour has no bearing on whether they are or can be in a saved state. Christians commit sin, for none are sinless, but they are not slaves to sin as Paul terms that word, they do not live a wilfull lifestyle of sin, where sin dominates their life. You need to embrace the whole of Paul's message, not just part of it

 

[Doug]

your going to have get past the Jews honestly the Bible is for the christian born again '


this is your quote
{All scripture is profitable but I dont apply what is meant for Israel. I can apply what conforms to what was revealed to Paul by Jesus.}

what your saying just dont compute i fail to see where it says the believing Jews only . this is why i asked if you was saying there was 2 different set of scriptures

Galatians 3:28​

​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

​

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. when it says all scripture ,,THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS

I believe all scripture, but recognize that it has to be decided what was written for Israel and what is intended for me to obey,
For instance, look at this verse...............[Matthew 10:5 KJV] "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:"................you certainly dont think this verse requries your response of obedience

 

[Doug]

your going to have get past the Jews honestly the Bible is for the christian born again '

[Matthew 10:5 KJV] "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:"..................You have to determine who scripture is addressing. Peter is writing to scattered believing Israel so when he says this...............[1 Peter 2:9 KJV] "But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:".............I know Ia m not a priesthood because other scripture says that is describing believing Israel

I know this isnt for me to obey..................[Leviticus 20:10 KJV] "And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.".................Scripture tells us who this was given to obey..................[Leviticus 20:2 KJV] "Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever [he be] of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth [any] of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones."..............SAY TO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL

 

[Doug]

Paul did not water this down. He intensified it. He commanded believers to test what they hear ~1 Thessalonians 5:21, mark those who walk contrary to doctrine ~Romans 16:17, and remove from fellowship those whose lives openly deny the gospel ~1 Corinthians 5:11. Fruit is not the basis of justification but the evidence of regeneration. Paul says the fruit of the Spirit is manifest ~Galatians 5:22–23, not hidden, not theoretical.

I agree that Paul dealt with sin and those who corrupted doctrine
I will say only that we cant judge that someone isnt saved based on their behaviour. Thats all I mean

 

[Doug]

The bible speaks of sin in two different ways, so does Paul. You really need to embrace his message completely, not just the parts you like
In Rom ch6 he tells the Romans they USED to be slaves to sin, but by following his gospel message they changed from that condition. He twice states in that chapter if you are a slave to sin it leads to death
So a person joins a church, they are a constant blasphemer, have multiple affairs, beats their wife continually, are a habitual thief and gets drunk every night/they are a slave to sin /sin rules their life. They claim to have gotten saved, and, according to Paul's message they would instantly be placed in a justified stated under a righteousness of faith in Christ.
However, three months later say, they still constantly blaspheme, they still constantly beat their wife, they still constantly have affairs, they still get drunk every night and they are still a habitual thief. According to you, their behaviour has no bearing on whether they are or can be in a saved state. Christians commit sin, for none are sinless, but they are not slaves to sin as Paul terms that word, they do not live a wilfull lifestyle of sin, where sin dominates their life. You need to embrace the whole of Paul's message, not just part of it

[1 Corinthians 5:11 KJV] "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."
[1 Corinthians 5:12 KJV] "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?"
[1 Corinthians 5:13 KJV] "But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

Look closely where Paul said IF A MAN IS CALLED A BROTHER...........Pul was not saying that by his behavior we can say he isnt
Pau; dealt with this sinner by having no fellowship with him

 

[saved by grace 101]

[1 Corinthians 5:11 KJV] "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."
[1 Corinthians 5:12 KJV] "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?"
[1 Corinthians 5:13 KJV] "But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

Look closely where Paul said IF A MAN IS CALLED A BROTHER...........Pul was not saying that by his behavior we can say he isnt
Pau; dealt with this sinner by having no fellowship with him

Of course he was. If anyone claims to be a brother but is a fornicator, covetous, idolator, railer, drunkard, extortioner, have nothing to do with him.
Do not ye judge them that are WITHIN(THE CHURCH)
What is the man within the church being judged on? His behaviour

 

[saved by grace 101]

[1 Corinthians 5:11 KJV] "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."
[1 Corinthians 5:12 KJV] "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?"
[1 Corinthians 5:13 KJV] "But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

Look closely where Paul said IF A MAN IS CALLED A BROTHER...........Pul was not saying that by his behavior we can say he isnt
Pau; dealt with this sinner by having no fellowship with him

And wouldnt you like to answer this? If a person, three months after professing to get saved remained a wife beater, serial adulterer, habitual thief, got drunk every night, constantly blasphemed, a christian should not judge they are not saved by their behaviour?
You wouldn't think that fell under the category of being a slave to sin, to use Paul's words?

 

[Doug]

And wouldnt you like to answer this? If a person, three months after professing to get saved remained a wife beater, serial adulterer, habitual thief, got drunk every night, constantly blasphemed, a christian should not judge they are not saved by their behaviour?
You wouldn't think that fell under the category of being a slave to sin, to use Paul's words?

Paul warned the church not to be fornicators etc which means we can be. You cant judge their salvation as its not found in Paul's writings.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Paul warned the church not to be fornicators etc which means we can be. You cant judge their salvation as its not found in Paul's writings.

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn YOU(BELIEVERS), as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal5:19-21

Obviously Paul did draw a line at such behaviour

 

[saved by grace 101]

Paul warned the church not to be fornicators etc which means we can be. You cant judge their salvation as its not found in Paul's writings.

Anyway, thank you for your opinion, if a person gets drunk every night, constantly blasphemes, constantly beats their wife, is a habitual thief, has multiple affairs, a christian should never consider they are not saved by their actions. I suppose we could even throw murder and rape into the equation and you would still respond the same

 

[Doug]

Anyway, thank you for your opinion, if a person gets drunk every night, constantly blasphemes, constantly beats their wife, is a habitual thief, has multiple affairs, a christian should never consider they are not saved by their actions. I suppose we could even throw murder and rape into the equation and you would still respond the same

I will say that scriptures say we have been forgiven all sin, but we are taught not to sin
Our righteousness is the imputed righteousness of Christ

 

[saved by grace 101]

I will say that scriptures say we have been forgiven all sin, but we are taught not to sin
Our righteousness is the imputed righteousness of Christ

Yes, Jesus died for all our sins, providing we have truly been born again of the Spirit, and are willing to surrender our lives to Christ. And, such people will NOT live a lifestyle as I described

 

[Ezra]

[Matthew 10:5 KJV] "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:"..................You have to determine who scripture is addressing. Peter is writing to scattered believing Israel so when he says this...............[1 Peter 2:9 KJV] "But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:".............I know Ia m not a priesthood because other scripture says that is describing believing Israel

I know this isnt for me to obey..................[Leviticus 20:10 KJV] "And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.".................Scripture tells us who this was given to obey..................[Leviticus 20:2 KJV] "Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever [he be] of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth [any] of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones."..............SAY TO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL

your dealing with law in lev. we are of the royal priesthood not in the natiral the levites was the priest hood,, we have been grafted into the vine we have the Blood of Jesus flowing through our veins Holyghost BLOOD i am a child of the king

Sonship Through the Spirit​

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba,[e] Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
romans 11
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?


16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and [d]fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.


19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [e]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?



if we are in the vine then go ye unto all the world is for us to. i dont want accuse you in any wrong way .. but honestly your saying the Bible is divided for two different groups the messianic jew and the born again gentile us....


im sorry but i simply can not agree with what your posting on Israel. even the law if our us Jesus fulfilled the law ..all the o,t points to Christ

 

[Ezra]

Anyway, thank you for your opinion, if a person gets drunk every night, constantly blasphemes, constantly beats their wife, is a habitual thief, has multiple affairs, a christian should never consider they are not saved by their actions. I suppose we could even throw murder and rape into the equation and you would still respond the same

they was never saved IMO i go by what paul wrote when he said and such as you WERE .1 Corinthians 6:9-11 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


can a christian fall back into sin? yes same as the prodigal son but he came to his senses in the pig pen got out went back home.

 

[Ezra]

You cant judge their salvation as its not found in Paul's writings.

no but they have judged themselves once again we are to bear fruit. if i worked on your car and it reverted back to the same thing right after you picked it up.. would you say it was fixed ? same way with salvation in judging were not saying who goes to heaven, we are saying by there action . they dont show change 2 cor 5:17.. staying in sin never changing . if they attend the Church i pastor i would talk to them in private show them scriptures. then tell them to do some deep soul checking