A Third Jewish Temple is Required

[covenantee]

God did not talk about "Judaean Christians" or "Jews" fleeing from Judea in the Middle East.

The New Testament congregation of Israel under CHrist spiritually represents Judea and Christians are spiritual Jews. They are the believers in Judaea, the believers who can "see" the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Place, (ie. Church on this side of the Cross), are told then to flee Judaea.

Sounds like you don't want to hear the truth, you want to hear traditional things about Israel, Jersualem, and Jews in literal Judea. You will not like what I say about Judaea, you want to hear the fables about the Jewish nation in 70AD. That is the whole point of my speaking here on this subject. Judgment upon God's rebellious house that only wants to hear what it wants to hear. It is not ablwsy the Preterists or the Dispensationalists, but today it is those of the traditional churches as well! They despise the Word that see the Church as Judea (spiritual discerned) becasue they trust is in the perversion of it. Write that down!

Isaiah 30:8-13

• "Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
• That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
• Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
• Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
• Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
• Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant[/i]."

Oh yes, this is the reason for the fall of the Church. Not simple confusion, but Deception, strong delusion, because the people would not receive the love of truth, but had pleasure (liked, delighted in) their own unrighteous doings. Selah!

You believe (correct me if I'm wrong):
1. Christ's literal physical first coming
2. Christ's literal physical ministry
3. Christ's literal physical death
4. Christ's literal physical resurrection
5. Christ's literal physical ascension

But you deny:
Christ's literal physical judgment and punishment upon Jerusalem and Israel in 70 AD.

Explain.

 

[Phoneman777]

That is what I posted.

You agree the silver chest/arms and the lopsided bear are MP?

 

[Timtofly]

You agree the silver chest/arms and the lopsided bear are MP?

That is what I posted.

 

[Davy]

Brethren in Christ...

It's very important to understand what the "abomination of desolation" event per the Book of Daniel is about. It is NOT about an invasion of Jerusalem by armies. It is about the placing of an IDOL abomination inside the Jew's temple in Jerusalem.

The Antichrist/pseudo-Christ is to come at the end for the time of "great tribulation", and will place an IDOL abomination inside the future 3rd Jew's temple in Jerusalem. That is what Lord Jesus was warning His Church about in His Olivet discourse, and He showed it will happen in the days of the FINAL generation that will literally see... His future coming.

The devil and his children do not want you to understand about that "abomination of desolation" event, that it requires for the END a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem and on-going animal sacrifices, i.e., old covenant style worship. This is why the false crept in unawares of Jude 4, have crept into the Church educational colleges and started up seminary theories like Preterism and Historicism which both treat the "abomination of desolation" event as past history when the Romans in 70 A.D. destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple burned down.

They deny the simple Bible facts though, because Jesus proclaimed the "abomination of desolation" as linked with the days of "great tribulation". And the time of "great tribulation" Jesus showed is about the events at the very end of this world in the generation that will see His future return (Matthew 24:15-31). He revealed the generation of the parable of the fig tree is the final generation on earth that will experience His future return.

Those deceived brethren that keep the false doctrines of Preterism and Historicism alive simply do not stay in the written Scripture on this, and instead are following a 'system' of men designed to move the believer's mind away from the very SIGNS of the end Jesus gave for His in the last generation that will see His coming. The specific event the devil is trying to hide using those deceived, is the fact of Jesus showing about the coming of a pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem at the END of this world during the "great tribulation" that the deceived there will say is The Christ. This will be the "strong delusion" event Apostle Paul warned about in the 2 Thessalonians 2 chapter. That pseudo-Christ, or false-Messiah, will fool the majority of the whole world into accepting him as God.

On the majority of Christian forums today, the preaching of deception to lead away from understanding about the coming pseudo-Christ takes precedence in conversation about the end times. Just about anything else is preached other than the coming of a false-Messiah at Jerusalem for the END, working great signs, wonders, and miracles to deceive, as written in God's Word. It's sad that is done too, because the main warning Christ and His Apostles gave The Church for the end of this world is to not be deceived by that coming false-Christ that is going to play Jesus Christ.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You believe (correct me if I'm wrong):
1. Christ's literal physical first coming
2. Christ's literal physical ministry
3. Christ's literal physical death
4. Christ's literal physical resurrection
5. Christ's literal physical ascension

But you deny:
Christ's literal physical judgment and punishment upon Jerusalem and Israel in 70 AD.

Explain.

How we are to understand any particular passage is not determined by man's rule of discipline in church tradition or dogma, but by carefully examining each verse in context and in conjunction with the whole Bible, to see how God intended the verse to be understood. For example, some theologians have a system where they believe that:

• "if the literal sense, makes sense, seek no other sense."

This hermeneutic or system is as bankrupt and faulty as their logic is, and that is very easily provable. For example, John the Baptist came to make the crooked roads straight. The literal sense of that prophesy made sense, but if the disciples were to follow their system, they would still be waiting for a highway construction worker to come and literally make roads straight. Or when Jesus said destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up. It made perfect sense literally. After all, Jesus was God and had done all sorts of great miraculous things. But the 'fact' is, though the literal sense, made sense, it is not what Christ had in view. Same with the prophecies of woe unto them that give suck, or His warnings not to go back into the house to get a coat, or of the prophesied famines. It all makes sense literally, but is not meant to be taken literally. So to find out what God really had in view, we have to search other verses which shed 'light' on the spirituality of what was prophesied. And that is how we are 'always' to understand scripture. By letting the Bible be its own interpreter of what is literal and what is spiritual, and not the flawed systems and methodologies of men.

 

[3 Resurrections]

God did not talk about "Judaean Christians" or "Jews" fleeing from Judea in the Middle East.

Sure He did. With a specific mention of the most vulnerable being women with child and those who were nursing babies. And a recommendation that they pray that their physical flight out of Judea and Jerusalem would not take place during the winter (when the deluge of the "early rains" season began in Israel). God's wrath was going to come on "THIS people" who were in Judea. This flight from Judea to the mountains was not a generic world-wide flight from false churches being spoken about.

I have heard others such as yourself attempt to make all of this a metaphor for a spiritual flight out of corrupted churches to the Mountain of God, but the conversation turns ludicrous when pressed to explain these terms above which Christ spoke about.

What difference would the chill of winter temperatures make in a "spiritual flight" out of corrupted churches?

What difference would it make for pregnant women or those who were nursing babies in a "spiritual flight" out of corrupted churches?

And a recommended flight to the PLURAL mountains is not a flight to a single Mountain of God.

 

[covenantee]

How we are to understand any particular passage is not determined by man's rule of discipline in church tradition or dogma, but by carefully examining each verse in context and in conjunction with the whole Bible, to see how God intended the verse to be understood. For example, some theologians have a system where they believe that:

• "if the literal sense, makes sense, seek no other sense."

This hermeneutic or system is as bankrupt and faulty as their logic is, and that is very easily provable. For example, John the Baptist came to make the crooked roads straight. The literal sense of that prophesy made sense, but if the disciples were to follow their system, they would still be waiting for a highway construction worker to come and literally make roads straight. Or when Jesus said destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up. It made perfect sense literally. After all, Jesus was God and had done all sorts of great miraculous things. But the 'fact' is, though the literal sense, made sense, it is not what Christ had in view. Same with the prophecies of woe unto them that give suck, or His warnings not to go back into the house to get a coat, or of the prophesied famines. It all makes sense literally, but is not meant to be taken literally. So to find out what God really had in view, we have to search other verses which shed 'light' on the spirituality of what was prophesied. And that is how we are 'always' to understand scripture. By letting the Bible be its own interpreter of what is literal and what is spiritual, and not the flawed systems and methodologies of men.

The judgment and destruction of Jerusalem was both a physical and a spiritual event; to both physically and spiritually destroy all remaining vestiges of the old covenant, and to physically and spiritually coronate the New Covenant in its fullness. This, it accomplished.

This was the united and unanimous view of the historic orthodox Christian Church for over 17 centuries.

I'm confident in the Scriptural and historical accuracy of their recognition and understanding.

Whom do I believe?

1. The united and unanimous historic orthodox Christian Church for over 17 centuries.
2. Deniers.

No hint necessary.

 

[covenantee]

Are we going to go by what "seems" right in our own eyes by reading Josephus?

No mention of Josephus.

160AD Clement of Alexandria (On Daniel 9:24-27 ; The 'Seventy Weeks' of Daniel) "160 AD Clement of Alexandria "Cyrus had, by proclamation, previously enjoined the restoration of the Hebrews. And his promise being accomplished in the time of Darius, the feast of the dedication was held, as also the feast of tabernacles. There were in all, taking in the duration of the captivity down to the restoration of the people, from the birth of Moses, one thousand one hundred and fifty-five years, six months, and ten days; and from the reign of David, according to some, four hundred and fifty-two; more correctly, five hundred and seventy-two years, six months, and ten days. From the captivity at Babylon, which took place in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, was fulfilled what was spoken by Daniel the prophet as follows: "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to seal sins, and to wipe out and make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the word commanding an answer to be given, and Jerusalem to be built, to Christ the Prince, are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and the street shall be again built, and the wall; and the times shall be expended. And after the sixty-two weeks the anointing shall be overthrown, and judgment shall not be in him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming Prince. And they shall be destroyed in a flood, and to the end of the war shall be cut off by: desolations. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the middle of the week the sacrifice and oblation shall be taken away; and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations, and until the consummation of time shall the consummation be assigned for desolation. And in the midst of the week shall he make the incense of sacrifice cease, and of the wing of destruction, even till the consummation, like the destruction of the oblation." That the temple accordingly was built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras. And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfilment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judaea was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, "the Holy of Holies," having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father. In those "sixty and two weeks," as the prophet said, and "in the one week," was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place.

 

[Phoneman777]

That is what I posted.

Great...so you believe the belly & thighs of brass/four winged leopard are Greece......and the legs of iron/beast with iron teeth and brass nails are Rome?

Do you agree that as soon as Babylon fell, MP rose and when MP fell, Greece arose and when Greece (the whole comprised of four parts) fell, Rome arose?

 

[Arthur81]

The belief in a 3rd Temple is not found in any Christian Confession, Creed or Catechism prior to the 20th century, BECAUSE IT IS NOT TAUGHT IN THE BIBLE. This teaching is a Judaizing heresy!

The belief in a Third Temple holds great significance in Jewish eschatology (beliefs about the end times):

Restoration of Divine Presence
The Third Temple is seen as the place where God's divine presence (Shekhinah) will return to dwell among the Jewish people, as it did in the First and Second Temples.

This is tied to the coming of the Messianic age and redemption of Israel prophesied in the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible).

Renewal of Temple Service
The rebuilding of the Temple would allow for the reinstitution of the full Temple service and sacrificial system commanded in the Torah.

This includes the need for a red heifer for the ritual purification of priests and vessels to perform the services properly.

Fulfillment of Prophecy
Many Jewish scholars view the Third Temple as the fulfillment of biblical prophecies about the Temple being rebuilt in the end times, such as those found in Ezekiel 40-48.

Its construction is seen as a prerequisite for the coming of the Messiah according to some interpretations.

National Sovereignty
For some, the Third Temple represents the full restoration of Jewish national sovereignty over the land of Israel and Jerusalem.
Control over the Temple Mount is viewed as key to asserting sovereignty over the biblical heartland.

So in summary, the belief in a Third Temple being rebuilt is deeply rooted in Jewish messianic expectations, the desire to restore the full divine service, the fulfillment of prophecy, and for some - the ultimate assertion of Jewish national rights in the land of Israel.
The preceding comes from an online AI search

"Since the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE by the Romans, some Jews have expressed their desire to build a Third Temple on the Temple Mount. Prayer for this is a formal part of the Jewish tradition of thrice daily Amidah prayer. Although it remains unbuilt, the notion of and desire for a Third Temple is sacred in Judaism.

Following the Second Temple's destruction, 'most rabbis adopted the position that Jewish law prohibits reconstructing the Holy Temple [Third Temple] prior to the age of messianic redemption, or that the law is too ambiguous and that the messiah must come first.'"

Third Temple - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Will God orchestrate the construction of another temple? (This is an EXCELLENT article online.)

Will God orchestrate the construction of another temple?

Some Christians believe that God is going to orchestrate the construction of another temple in Jerusalem But is that really what God is planning to do

www.christianpost.com

 

[Keraz]

Ezekiel's temple
The prophecies of the prophets of Israel can be divided into three sections. They are;

Israel - you are being naughty. Mend your ways

Israel - I know you will not mend your ways so disgrace, dispersion and discipline will be your portion

Israel - God loves you and will restore you for both His love's sake and because of His Promises to the Fathers

Note: This applies to Israel NOT to Judah.


But Ezekiel goes further than this. Ezekiel touches that part of God's heart that is very important. That is, His House and the Testimony it brought Him among the nations. Israel had been exceedingly evil and had behaved worse than the heathen nations around them. Even the heathen never swapped their gods, but Israel has swapped the Living and True God for demon-idols. Israel, as per the threats of the Contract of Sinai, was about to be invaded by Nebuchadnezzar, have their City and Temple destroyed, be slaughtered and be carried off to Babylon to serve foreign kings. One thing remained to be done before Nebuchadnezzar entered Jerusalem and defiled and destroyed it. That was, God was to withdraw from the Temple in which He dwelt. This was for two reasons. God's holiness could not tolerate the heathen entering into the same place as He, and if they did, Nebuchadnezzar would have been slain like Uzzah in 2nd Samuel 6. God needed Nebuchadnezzar for further things concerning His glory, so before the Babylonian army could enter Jerusalem, God withdrew His glory from the Temple - His House. This utterly sad event takes up the first few Chapters.

This is a low point for such a great God. From this moment on, with His House and Testimony gone from earth, God is called, throughout the Book of Daniel, which encompasses the time in Babylon, the "God of heaven", but never the "God of earth". His House and Presence WERE GONE. This solemn matter is dealt with by Ezekiel. Ezekiel is divided roughly into FOUR sections;

The withdrawal of God and His glory from Solomon's Temple - His House; Ezekiel 11:22-23

The accusations against Israel that brought about this tragic move

The Promises of Israel's future restoration

The Promise of a return to a greater glory for the House of God predicted in the latter Chapters


Chapters 37 to 39 give detailed prophecies of Israel's restoration and end with Armageddon at the end of Chapter 39. Then the visions make an abrupt change. They now concern them selves with God's New House. Immediately the Christian will OBJECT. Is not the Church the House of God? And does God live in a House made with hands? The answer is that God's original intention was that man would eat of the Tree of Life and become the HOUSE of God. And since God is a Spirit, He would dwell in the sanctity of the spirit of man. This He finally achieves in the Church. But ... in the process of recovering man, God did TWO things;

He dwelt WITH them to have His presence on earth, and for this a House of a special construction was needed

He caused the Second Person of the God-head to become a Man, and this Man, Jesus, was physical and needed a physical Dwelling


During His first sojourn on earth, this God-Man Jesus had nowhere to dwell (Matt.8:20; Lk.9:28). His rightful place as God would have been the Temple in Jerusalem, but He is driven from there under threat of death by the rulers of Israel. But at the end of the age, this God-Man will become the ordained, accepted and anointed King of the whole earth by military defeat of His enemies. The question is then, "WHERE WILL HE LIVE PHYSICALLY, AND OF WHAT TYPE WILL HIS HOUSE BE?

Ezekiel answers this. The House in which Emmanuel (God with us) will live must fulfill a number of qualifications.

It must be in Jerusalem

It must be a Palace fit for the greatest King ever to live

It must be a House that reflects the accomplishments of this great King

It must be a House that allows the correct service to such a Holy One

It must be a House that everyone of every nation can come up to; to pray, worship and have audience with King Jesus. Zechariah 14:16-21

 

[Timtofly]

Great...so you believe the belly & thighs of brass/four winged leopard are Greece......and the legs of iron/beast with iron teeth and brass nails are Rome?

Do you agree that as soon as Babylon fell, MP rose and when MP fell, Greece arose and when Greece (the whole comprised of four parts) fell, Rome arose?

That part of history was covered in Daniel. So was the ten toes as the 5th kingdom. Daniel wrote what covered history, up until the Reformation, but did not cover the 6th kingdom with the mortal wound, between the Reformation and the Second Coming.

 

[Phoneman777]

That part of history was covered in Daniel. So was the ten toes as the 5th kingdom. Daniel wrote what covered history, up until the Reformation, but did not cover the 6th kingdom with the mortal wound, between the Reformation and the Second Coming.

See, this is where you go off the rails, friend. There is no mention of a "fifth kingdom" - only "divisions" of the fourth into ten separate barbarian tribes - the Ten Horns - which bitterly fought for decades until they voted to appoint the Bishop of Rome - the Little Horn which arose among them - to settle their differences.

Until you recognize this, you'll continue to cling to "gaps" that are not there, friend.

 

[Timtofly]

See, this is where you go off the rails, friend. There is no mention of a "fifth kingdom" - only "divisions" of the fourth into ten separate barbarian tribes - the Ten Horns - which bitterly fought for decades until they voted to appoint the Bishop of Rome - the Little Horn which arose among them - to settle their differences.

Until you recognize this, you'll continue to cling to "gaps" that are not there, friend.

Of course there is: Revelation takes off where Daniel stops. John sees more detail of the end than Daniel. You are stuck in the 16th century.

"behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."

The ten horns were not on the 4th head.

"saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns"

After the Second Coming the power shifts to a new set of 10 horns. There are no more any recognizable top 20 top 5 or even top ten as we know them. These ten horns are given a promise by Satan, but have no kingdoms yet, and never will because they are dead at Armageddon.

"a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Five are fallen, so in the past. The 5th kingdom being the ten toes, destroyed at the Reformation. The 6th kingdom has had a mortal wound since the Reformation. Satan is the 7th head, and is the 8th kingdom.

The 7th Kingdom is not part of the beast at all, but Jesus declared the 7th and final kingdom at the 7th Trumpet.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Jesus returns as the 7th Kingdom if Satan is allowed 42 months as the 8th kingdom. But the 7th Trumpet declares Jesus as the king of all nations on earth.

Your ten toes have been dead and gone for over 500 years. Longer than the 70 weeks you claim between Daniel and Jesus .

 

[Phoneman777]

"behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."

The red dragon with 7 heads 7 crowns and 10 Horns is a picture of Satan and his papal agents

The ten horns were not on the 4th head.

This is a picture of the Satan controlling the papacy which rules over the Ten (separate) Horns

After the Second Coming the power shifts to a new set of 10 horns.

After the Second Coming when Jesus has come "as a thief in the night" there won't be 7 more minutes let alone 7 more years of any power shifts.

There are no more any recognizable top 20 top 5 or even top ten as we know them. These ten horns are given a promise by Satan, but have no kingdoms yet, and never will because they are dead at Armageddon.

Armageddon takes place 1,000 years after the Second Coming at the Resurrection of the Damned when the wicked rise and surround the City. "God and Magog" are symbolic for the wicked of all ages. There is no climactic battle going to be fought by China, Russia, N. Korea against the Jews - total nonsense. The only "Jews" that have anything to do with the fulfillment of end times prophecy is "the Israel of God" - the Christian church.

"a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

The Whore riding the Beast is the final, fullest depiction of the papacy controlling secular governments that positively no one should miss. Just as Baal high priestess Jezebel controlled King Ahab, so the papal apostasy "Babylon" church controls "the kings of the Earth" governments, as well as the "merchants of the Earth" economic systems.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Five are fallen, so in the past. The 5th kingdom being the ten toes, destroyed at the Reformation. The 6th kingdom has had a mortal wound since the Reformation. Satan is the 7th head, and is the 8th kingdom.

The 7 Kings represent "kingdoms" as does the Beast represent the papal "kingdom" which are:

1. Babylon
2. MP
3. Greece
4. Pagan Rome
5. Papal Rome
6. Bottomless pit beast of Luciferian secret societies ("is not, yet is") - seemingly mortally wounded papacy is actually alive, operating behind these papal-controlled societies for interim world control
7. Image of the Beast ("not yet come") - apostate Protestant Jesuit sympathizers unite church/state
8. Papal NWO ("eighth, of the 7") - final satanic confederacy in full public view just before Jesus comes

The 7th Kingdom is not part of the beast at all, but Jesus declared the 7th and final kingdom at the 7th Trumpet.

The 7th Trumpet began sounding in 1844 at the end of the 2,300 Days (years) prophecy when High Priest Jesus entered the Most Holy Place in the antitypical "Day of Atonement" and began cleansing the heavenly sanctuary, which even the Jewish Encyclopedia says is the "day of judgment".

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

During the Judgment, Jesus determines which inhabitants of the earthly kingdoms down here will be citizens in His Heavenly kingdom up there. When the Day of Atonement is done, Jesus exits the Heavenly Sanctuary, takes off His priestly robes and puts on His Kingly robes and comes for us, He reward being determined and "with Me to give to every man according as his work shall be".

Jesus returns as the 7th Kingdom if Satan is allowed 42 months as the 8th kingdom. But the 7th Trumpet declares Jesus as the king of all nations on earth.

All this happens before Jesus returns. After the 7th Trumpet finishes sounding "the Lord God shall blow the trumpet" - the final trumpet. What it is? "


"And the Lord shall descend from heaven with...the Trump of God".

Your ten toes have been dead and gone for over 500 years. Longer than the 70 weeks you claim between Daniel and Jesus .

No, the Ten Toes arise from the ashes of fallen Pagan Rome in 467 A.D. with the papacy arising among them in 538 A.D. The 70 Weeks expired long before that in 34 A.D.

 

[Timtofly]

The red dragon with 7 heads 7 crowns and 10 Horns is a picture of Satan and his papal agents

This is a picture of the Satan controlling the papacy which rules over the Ten (separate) Horns

After the Second Coming when Jesus has come "as a thief in the night" there won't be 7 more minutes let alone 7 more years of any power shifts.

Armageddon takes place 1,000 years after the Second Coming at the Resurrection of the Damned when the wicked rise and surround the City. "God and Magog" are symbolic for the wicked of all ages. There is no climactic battle going to be fought by China, Russia, N. Korea against the Jews - total nonsense. The only "Jews" that have anything to do with the fulfillment of end times prophecy is "the Israel of God" - the Christian church.

The Whore riding the Beast is the final, fullest depiction of the papacy controlling secular governments that positively no one should miss. Just as Baal high priestess Jezebel controlled King Ahab, so the papal apostasy "Babylon" church controls "the kings of the Earth" governments, as well as the "merchants of the Earth" economic systems.

The 7 Kings represent "kingdoms" as does the Beast represent the papal "kingdom" which are:

1. Babylon
2. MP
3. Greece
4. Pagan Rome
5. Papal Rome
6. Bottomless pit beast of Luciferian secret societies ("is not, yet is") - seemingly mortally wounded papacy is actually alive, operating behind these papal-controlled societies for interim world control
7. Image of the Beast ("not yet come") - apostate Protestant Jesuit sympathizers unite church/state
8. Papal NWO ("eighth, of the 7") - final satanic confederacy in full public view just before Jesus comes

The 7th Trumpet began sounding in 1844 at the end of the 2,300 Days (years) prophecy when High Priest Jesus entered the Most Holy Place in the antitypical "Day of Atonement" and began cleansing the heavenly sanctuary, which even the Jewish Encyclopedia says is the "day of judgment".

Jesus is physically on earth as the Prince to come. That is when the 70th week is finished.

You put all your trust in the Catholic church, and none in what John actually wrote.

God is going to destroy life on earth as we know it at the Second Coming, but that is not the end. There is a thousand years left with Jesus physically on the earth.

Satan is the 8th kingdom, not mankind. Satan is the dragon, not mankind. Man has just been riding along with Satan since Babylon. But when Satan is actually in control, the whole world will know who Satan is, and he is not the pope.

John wrote these future 10 kings have no kingdom, so they are not any of the nations we currently recognize.

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast."

These leaders will not even be recognized until after the Second Coming. They only have an hour of glory along with Satan, after the Second Coming.

Your interpretation of the 7th Trumpet is so far removed from the Word of God. Even most other posters, erroneously interpret Paul and the 7th Trumpet as being the actual Second Coming, not hundreds of years prior to the Second Coming.

The ten toes are the 5th Kingdom and stopped being relative at the Reformation. The ten toes are not the ten horns in Revelation.

When John states the first 5 have fallen that means they are historically in the past. We are way past the Reformation, over 500 years past. The 6th kingdom is not the "is not what is". This is Satan per John:

"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Plain English says the 7th head is the beast that was, is not, even the 8th. If you only have 7 heads, but 8 kingdoms, then the 7th Kingdom in not one of the dragon's heads at all.

Satan was not Babylon.

Satan was not Medes and Persians.

Satan was not Greece

Satan was not Rome.

Satan was not the ten toes.

Satan is not even the 6th kingdom.

Satan is the 7th head, always was, has no authority, so is not a kingdom, until the 8th kingdom, the 42 months of AoD after the Second Coming.

The ten horns have power one hour with the beast, Satan as the 8th kingdom.

The 6th kingdom never became a one world dictator in the sense the world has recognized this one world dictator, because the church has been a kingdom and mountain in Christ filling the whole earth, giving the 6th kingdom it's mortal wound. You have totally left out the effect of the church as if the papacy and apostasy has totally wiped out the church, instead of the way the dream given to Nebuchadnezzar actually was stated.

"Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces."

"and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth."

Nothing in there that Rome and the papacy would still have governmental authority after the Reformation. Yet some of the church seems to have conceded to Satan and still see the papacy as some threat. Jesus never stated the church would have an easy go.

"Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

The church would come out of great tribulation, and has for 1994 years. But Daniel literally told Nebuchadnezzar that the church would totally wipe out these first 5 kingdoms and fill the earth, but was not supposed to be a one world governmental dictator. Jesus never said one had to live for thousands of years. Each generation would have to be faithful until they finished their task on the earth, and not give in, in their last days, even at the point of martyrdom.

Jesus said that after the Second Coming would many be physically gathered in Jerusalem for judgment, while still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. So there is time after the Second Coming, not this remote judgment for hundreds of years you erroneously teach.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

The verse does not say has been picking and choosing for hundreds of years prior to the Second Coming.

Jesus was physically on the earth as Messiah for 3.5 years from baptism to the Cross, then was cut off for the Gospel's sake. As Prince to Come, Jesus as King will physically be on the earth for the last half of the 70th week. The 70th week is Jesus. You may not like a gap, but "being cut off", certainly indicates a gap of time, as the "Prince to come" is after the "cut off" part.

At least Jesus as the 70th week is implied in Daniel 9, not some 2300 years. The day year principle is not necessary in Daniel 9, because in the Hebrew, neither the terms "day" nor "year" are explicitly expressed. The term "week" is used which can be a set of 7 years or 7 days depending on context.

God is saying I gave you 70 years to cool off, now I am giving you 70 weeks until I visit you and restore you completely. Then the mystery "monkey wrench" was thrown in there as per Paul and his understanding that the 70 weeks were placed on hold, until the fulness of the Gentiles came in, and Israel would be partially blinded before the promise in Daniel 9 would become a reality.

I am not saying the Reformation was good or bad. That is just the historical time frame when the ten toes were destroyed, and the 5th kingdom, became past history. If you refuse to see that is when the church expanded like wild fire, that is your historical blindness, with your head in the sand of papacy as some existential threat. John said 5 have fallen. They do not relate to anything written in Revelation, past an historical nod, as having happened already. You can call the ten toes whatever you want. How Europe portrayed itself in the 16th century is no longer relevant today.

 

[Timtofly]

During the Judgment, Jesus determines which inhabitants of the earthly kingdoms down here will be citizens in His Heavenly kingdom up there. When the Day of Atonement is done, Jesus exits the Heavenly Sanctuary, takes off His priestly robes and puts on His Kingly robes and comes for us, He reward being determined and "with Me to give to every man according as his work shall be".

No, the Ten Toes arise from the ashes of fallen Pagan Rome in 467 A.D. with the papacy arising among them in 538 A.D. The 70 Weeks expired long before that in 34

All this happens before Jesus returns. After the 7th Trumpet finishes sounding "the Lord God shall blow the trumpet" - the final trumpet. What it is? "


"And the Lord shall descend from heaven with...the Trump of God".
No, the Ten Toes arise from the ashes of fallen Pagan Rome in 467 A.D. with the papacy arising among them in 538 A.D. The 70 Weeks expired long before that in 34 A.D.

You deny that the 7th Trumpet declares Jesus as King of the world against clear Scripture:

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

I don't think at any time during 1844, any nation recognized that point, that Jesus was the Prince to come, now physically reigning in Jerusalem over every other nation, just as physical as Jesus dying on the Cross, as the Messiah.

 

[Lizbeth]

Sure He did. With a specific mention of the most vulnerable being women with child and those who were nursing babies. And a recommendation that they pray that their physical flight out of Judea and Jerusalem would not take place during the winter (when the deluge of the "early rains" season began in Israel). God's wrath was going to come on "THIS people" who were in Judea. This flight from Judea to the mountains was not a generic world-wide flight from false churches being spoken about.

I have heard others such as yourself attempt to make all of this a metaphor for a spiritual flight out of corrupted churches to the Mountain of God, but the conversation turns ludicrous when pressed to explain these terms above which Christ spoke about.

What difference would the chill of winter temperatures make in a "spiritual flight" out of corrupted churches?

What difference would it make for pregnant women or those who were nursing babies in a "spiritual flight" out of corrupted churches?

And a recommended flight to the PLURAL mountains is not a flight to a single Mountain of God.

Some things to consider: One is that He speaks to us in parables. Another is the biblical principle of first the natural then the spiritual. Also....many things written were to the Jew first, then the Gentile. Also, as Solomon wrote....what has been will be again...there is nothing new under the sun. So it appears we can expect to see some things repeated at least once, according to the general pattern of the first occurrence, even if not in every detail.

Jesus was a prophet in Israel (though more than a prophet). He was prophesying and warning Israel at that time of things that were shortly to take place (which had also been prophesied in the old testament). And which did subsequently take place just as Jesus prophesied before that generation passed away. But also I believe we can consider that it speaks to the mostly Gentile church as well....that some of those things will happen again according to the same pattern. "Tribulation and anguish upon the souls of all who do evil, first the Jew then the Gentile."

 

[3 Resurrections]

But also I believe we can consider that it speaks to the mostly Gentile church as well....that some of those things will happen again according to the same pattern. "Tribulation and anguish upon the souls of all who do evil, first the Jew then the Gentile."

There is no such thing as the "Gentile church" today. God has removed those classifications of Jew and Gentile. There is only the "One New Man" in Christ under the New Covenant. This is the true definition of the "Third temple". The temple of God is holy, which temple WE are, if we are in Christ.

Those particular events in Judea predicted for the "Great tribulation" which fell upon those people during the "days of vengeance" Christ said would never be duplicated, either before then, or since that time. Nothing of that unique kind of tribulation experienced by them would be repeated in history afterward.

 

[Lizbeth]

There is no such thing as the "Gentile church" today. God has removed those classifications of Jew and Gentile. There is only the "One New Man" in Christ under the New Covenant. This is the true definition of the "Third temple". The temple of God is holy, which temple WE are, if we are in Christ.

Those particular events in Judea predicted for the "Great tribulation" which fell upon those people during the "days of vengeance" Christ said would never be duplicated, either before then, or since that time. Nothing of that unique kind of tribulation experienced by them would be repeated in history afterward.

There is no male or female in the kingdom, either, yet here we are male and female. The gospel did go the Jew first then the Gentile.........and we who are Gentiles need to likewise take warning from what happened to the Jews in 70 AD who didn't remain faithful to the Lord, and who didn't receive Messiah/Christ. God judged the Jews first, then He is going to judge the world (nations, ie, Gentiles) in the end of the world. But also....it might be that the Jews/Israel (unbelieving) will be judged a second time, as there seem to be some indications in scripture of that.) The church is mostly Gentile though of course there are Jews who belong to the body of Christ as well....amen, one new man.

As to the tribulation not being duplicated.....that part of the prophecy might be referring to the very end.....sometimes can be a kind of woof and waffle to prophetic words, which are speaking in spirit......might be speaking of more than one thing at the same time. I think we can depend on it that the end of the world is not going to be very nice at any rate.