A tragic story:

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It has been my lot to find out, first hand, the results of those that teach sinless perfection in the flesh; that God changes our sinful flesh nature. The result of this teaching causes many to give up hope and turn away from Jesus.
-
When I was about 25 years old I worked for a factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee. One night when I was working the third shift the security guard came and told me that a man was at the gate wanting to talk to me.
-
It was a fellow worker at the plant who worked on the first shift and he was very distraught about Christianity. He said he wanted to be a Christian but it just didn't seem to work for him because he didn‘t feel he had changed.
-
I found that he had been talking to some Christians who were telling him that if he was a Christian he would stop sinning; that he would be changed. He wanted to stop sinning but said he couldn't because he still had those fleeting thoughts of sin in his mind and, of course he was told that if you think it you have done it. He wanted to know what I believed about it.
-
I told him that Jesus came to save those that could not save themselves and keep the Law of Moses; to do for them what they could not do for themselves, that to believe in Jesus is to believe in what He did on the cross and to believe and trust that it has saved you.
-
I also told him that I still sin (I was being honest) and that everyone sins. He said what he had been told by other Christians, that if he sinned he was not a Christian and that I must not be one either since I said I still sinned. A week later this young man killed himself.
-
It is obvious that this young man had emotional problems. It is also obvious that the Holy Spirit was convicting him of his sins so that he would turn to Jesus. But I saw, first hand, what the message of “”“change“”” does to those that are seeking to be a Christian. To me it is a self-righteous message. It reminds me of what Jesus said in Matt. 23: 11-13.
-
Matt 23:11-13 (NKJ)
11 "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
-
As for me if I show anything to the world let it be the love of Jesus Christ for mankind and what He has done on the cross for all that will place their belief and trust (faith) in Him. Let me show where I have placed my faith.
-
Now if anyone wishes to say that I should have told him I no longer sin in the flesh because God has changed me, then I would be bearing false witness just as those that did it to him and those that do it today. The only change for a child of God is that Jesus has imputed righteousness to their Spirit by paying for all their sins of the flesh on a cross. The sinful nature of the flesh remains.
-
Rom 7:24-25
4 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,500
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That is a tragic story, and I agree that it shouldn't have happened. I am a strong believer in the truth that God can deliver people from addictions (to sinful habits), but it a truth that we all are, have been and will be sinners. Yet by grace through faith God will not impute sin and our sins are (not eliminated, but are...) covered.
 

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
FHII said:
That is a tragic story, and I agree that it shouldn't have happened. I am a strong believer in the truth that God can deliver people from addictions (to sinful habits), but it a truth that we all are, have been and will be sinners. Yet by grace through faith God will not impute sin and our sins are (not eliminated, but are...) covered.
I think I disagree that our sins are covered. I believe that the shed blood of Jesus has set us free of our sins. They were paid for on the cross.

I think that because of this event in my life I am tuned in when I read what some are writing on this forum. Which I see as the same thing the man's Christians friends were telling him. I completely believe telling people who are searching for God that they will be changed is sending many away and to hell. What I see is that the flesh still sins as long as it lives. But our spirit that is born of God can not sin. Romans7
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,500
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Romans 4:7 KJV
Saying , Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

I was referencing this verse. To me it says that while according to the law we do sin, its not imputed to us (but righteousness is) and either the penalty or the act itself is not appkied to us, but rather covered up by the blood of Christ.
 

mjrhealth

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2009
11,808
4,086
113
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
To me it says that while according to the law we do sin
what has sin to do with the law. Sin came into teh world with the fall of Adam, long before God gave the Law to moses. The law was given to teh jews , this bit,

Gal_3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But we "gentiles" where and are not under the law EVER so why people keep running to it ill never know.
 

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If only his Christian friends had told him about Romans 7 he would then see that sinless perfection of the flesh is not possible.