junobet said:
[SIZE=medium]I find your standpoint slightly confusing. You find it “Good News” that – according to your reading of the Bible– the vast majority of humankind is hell-bound? In spite of their atrocities you don’t want ISIS-fighters to burn in hell, but you think God is not at least as compassionate, forgiving and capable to love His enemies as you are?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Well, as I already indicated: the average German Protestant (or Catholic) reads the Bible very differently. [/SIZE]
It's not an unfamiliar sentiment. We have jails for people who 'break the law'. We let 'em out because we hope that they will rehabilitate, don't we? I mean, we truly hope these people recognise that what they did was unacceptable, and stop it. But we also know that many of them make the decided choice to continue on in their unlawful or dangerous behaviour. What then? We just let them go on harming people, or we put them back in jail?
So, wanting people to come to repentance, but recognising their right to choose otherwise and the consequences of that choice, is not that confusing.
The 'good news' is that Jesus makes us way for us NOT to burn in hell...but it gets to be on God's terms, not ours...after all, he paid the price. The atrocities of ISIS are horrible, and unless they come to Christ, they will pay for them. Just because I want them to realize their sin, and turn to Jesus, doesn't mean I'm saying I wish they (as they are now) don't have to pay for their actions. We'd all need to pay for our actions...justly...unless for Jesus. For in Jesus, we know we have forgiveness, but we are also aware of the sin that means we need him. To dismiss our sins and what they cost, is to dismiss what Christ did on the cross for us. If sin wasn't a big deal, then neither was Christ's sacrifice. I think we cheapen what Jesus did, if we say that people get to reject him but still be covered by him. Nothing in scripture gives us leave to make the assumption that those who scoff at Jesus can get a 'free' ride. Salvation is by and through Christ alone. You accept his sacrifice on your behalf, or you reject it. Again,
nothing in scripture suggests those who reject him belong to his bride....nothing.
[SIZE=medium]It sounds incredibly sad to me that you wish that everybody finds forgiveness and grace and yet still believe that most people won’t. So I can but pray for your hope and trust in the Almighty God to grow, “[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]who wants all people to be saved” (1 Tim. 2:4)[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Remember: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]"With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:26). Our God is not a cruel God, but a God whose very nature is love.[/SIZE]
Um...yeah. That's what the bible says. Not me...scripture. When it says "the road is narrow and few find it," just after saying "the road to hell is wide and many find it"....I can't see how you can't be clear on that.
[SIZE=medium]As for the verses you cited to support your belief in eternal hell:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] I find it somehow weird how many Christians only quote Matthew 25:46 (in a rather loose translation) to go on about eternal condemnation for others, without paying any attention to the actual point this passage is trying to make: Late on a cold winter’s night an atheist friend of mine offered his spare bed-room to a homeless man whilst I still was googling for a shelter that may still take people in at that hour. It’s rather clear that my atheist friend was more of a sheep and I was more of a goat on that occasion.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]So I don’t know about you, but I myself certainly am not saintly enough to make it through the narrow gate, however hard I try. Like most of us I will have to put my hopes in verses such as Romans 11:32: [/SIZE][SIZE=small]“[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]For God has locked all people in the prison of their own disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]”[/SIZE]
The 'point' of the passage is heeded, of course it is...Christians are called to those things, without a doubt...regardless of 'where' they think a person may be headed. But you cannot use that to deny what it clearly says about hell. Or all the other passages about it. Honestly...it seems to me the only way a person can claim the bible doesn't teach about hell is because they don't
want it to. You don't like the idea of hell, you think it doesn't "mesh" with an all-loving God, and so explain away or make 'meaningless' the passages that talk about it. I'm sorry, but that doesn't change the fact that they are there, and that Jesus loves us all enough to warn us about it. You don't send your kid across the road without first explaining the dangers of it. If you send them out letting them think nothing could go wrong, you could end up with a dead kid.
I'm wondering if you think it's just hell that you think is over the top, too much evil for a loving God, or if you think all punishment or hardship is 'out of character' for him. I ask because the bible if full of it. Jesus lamented over Jerusalem, weeping that he had called to her, wanting to gather her under his arms in protection and love...but they refused to come to him. He knew that rejection of him would bring judgment on them...and so it did. When the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD, we have reports of some of the most dark and horrid moments for the Jews. So I'm wondering if you think God making that sort of judgement is acceptable, or if you refuse it as well?
[SIZE=medium]True, Jesus seems to talk about hell quite a lot. However, in the Lord’s prayer He also teaches us another new thing: to call God “Father”. Parents usually don’t punish to destroy their children, but to correct them. Just like the shepherd will not give up before He found all lost sheep, most parents would never abandon their children, and they'd never shut the door to the prodigal son. My Mum frequently told me she’d throw me out of the window, if I did not stop doing xy. I knew that she’d never really do that, but yet I mostly stopped doing xy: not because I feared to be killed, but because I loved her and wanted to make her happy and pleased with me. [/SIZE]
Yes, but the prodigal son
had to come home in repentance first, didn't he? If he had foolishly stayed in the foreign land, he would have starved to death in a pig farm. This is my point! God knows what will befall us. So he opened a door for us to come to him, to come home. But if we don't come to Jesus in repentance, we're going to starve in a foreign land.