Augustin56
Well-Known Member
Did Jesus say to only pray the prayer once?
Luke 18:1 Then he told them a parable about the necessity for them to pray always without becoming weary.
About the "Holy Rosary" prayer
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Luke 18:1 Then he told them a parable about the necessity for them to pray always without becoming weary.
"But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do."
Don't add or subtract what I stated. Pray always and about everything. Prayer itself is not what we are debating, no we are talking about man created rules, traditions and requirements.
Reminds me of Luke 18:9-14. Jesus tells this parable because they were not getting that your "humble heart" is what He desires.
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
Matt. 26:44 Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It’s the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.
Luke 18:13 – the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying “God be merciful to me, a sinner.” This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.
Acts 10:2,4 – Cornelius prayed constantly to the Lord and his prayers ascended as a memorial before God.
Rom. 1:9 – Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing.
Rom. 12:12 – Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, not necessarily how we choose our words.
1 Thess. 5:17 – Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.
Rev. 4:8 – the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.” This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.
Psalm 136 – in this Psalm, the phrase “For His steadfast love endures forever” is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God’s divine Word.
Dan. 3:35-66 – the phrase “Bless the Lord” is similarly offered repeatedly, and mirrors Catholic litanies.
"worshipping man, tradition, things, or even the works of people" has nothing to do with the Rosary.
Devotional prayer of this kind is as old as Christianity as old as Judaism, in fact. The present form of the Rosary developed directly from the practices of the apostles, who gathered to say psalms at certain hours of the day or night (Acts 3:1; 10:9, 30; 16:25). This is really just a continuation of Jewish practice, as you can see in passages like 1 Kings 10:5 or Psalm 119:164, or the prescriptions for the services of the Temple in Exodus and Deuteronomy. There is no time in the memory of Christianity when Christians did not do this.
Gradually, as distinctively Christian ways of life took shape, this practice became the Liturgy of the Hours, sometimes called the Divine Office or the Great Office. Since earliest times, this prayer was obligatory for clergy, and it was embraced eagerly by the laity. The most popular and most effective form of this devotion was the Psalter of the Blessed Virgin, and the Rosary is . . . a branch sprung from that ancient trunk of Christian liturgy . . . by which the humble were associated in the Church's hymn of praise and universal intercession, Pope Paul VI recalled. Its roots are intertwined with those of every other Christian devotion, reaching all the way back through the New Testament to Genesis, by way of the prophets and Psalms.
In fact, because the Rosary consists of meditations on the chief episodes of the lives of Mary and Jesus, it cant be understood at all apart from the Bible the Gospels that preserve the best accounts of those mysteries, the prophecies that explain them, and the epistles that show you how to apply their meanings in your daily life. Indeed, the constant practice of the Rosary is one of the best ways to gain a more thorough understanding of the Bible.
Top 10 Misconceptions About the Rosary
Today, the Rosary is still the easiest way to acquire the ancient skills of meditative prayer, and its the most effective way to gain the graces that...
you only proved my point.Matt. 26:44 Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It’s the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.
Luke 18:13 – the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying “God be merciful to me, a sinner.” This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.
Acts 10:2,4 – Cornelius prayed constantly to the Lord and his prayers ascended as a memorial before God.
Rom. 1:9 – Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing.
Rom. 12:12 – Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, not necessarily how we choose our words.
1 Thess. 5:17 – Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.
Rev. 4:8 – the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.” This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.
Psalm 136 – in this Psalm, the phrase “For His steadfast love endures forever” is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God’s divine Word.
Dan. 3:35-66 – the phrase “Bless the Lord” is similarly offered repeatedly, and mirrors Catholic litanies.
"worshipping man, tradition, things, or even the works of people" has nothing to do with the Rosary.
Devotional prayer of this kind is as old as Christianity as old as Judaism, in fact. The present form of the Rosary developed directly from the practices of the apostles, who gathered to say psalms at certain hours of the day or night (Acts 3:1; 10:9, 30; 16:25). This is really just a continuation of Jewish practice, as you can see in passages like 1 Kings 10:5 or Psalm 119:164, or the prescriptions for the services of the Temple in Exodus and Deuteronomy. There is no time in the memory of Christianity when Christians did not do this.
Gradually, as distinctively Christian ways of life took shape, this practice became the Liturgy of the Hours, sometimes called the Divine Office or the Great Office. Since earliest times, this prayer was obligatory for clergy, and it was embraced eagerly by the laity. The most popular and most effective form of this devotion was the Psalter of the Blessed Virgin, and the Rosary is . . . a branch sprung from that ancient trunk of Christian liturgy . . . by which the humble were associated in the Church's hymn of praise and universal intercession, Pope Paul VI recalled. Its roots are intertwined with those of every other Christian devotion, reaching all the way back through the New Testament to Genesis, by way of the prophets and Psalms.
In fact, because the Rosary consists of meditations on the chief episodes of the lives of Mary and Jesus, it cant be understood at all apart from the Bible the Gospels that preserve the best accounts of those mysteries, the prophecies that explain them, and the epistles that show you how to apply their meanings in your daily life. Indeed, the constant practice of the Rosary is one of the best ways to gain a more thorough understanding of the Bible.
Top 10 Misconceptions About the Rosary
Today, the Rosary is still the easiest way to acquire the ancient skills of meditative prayer, and its the most effective way to gain the graces that...www.catholiceducation.org
I don't have time to go through each and every one of your comments but I will make one comment . I was born into a catholic following family. My mom still goes through the rosary but I thank God He brought me out of darkness into a true and real relationship. I am free!
Augustin56
Well-Known Member
So, how real is your relationship with God? Do you take the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ (God) onto your tongue and into your stomach? (See Gospel of John, Chapter 6)? Do you go to Confession and have your sins forgiven you by a priest who has Christ's authority to forgive your sins? How about the other Sacraments? Do you have access to 5 of the 6 that require a valid priesthood with Apostolic authority to confect? Just curious...
Augustin56
Well-Known Member
Praying as a Catholic
This reminds me of my own experience as a devout young Catholic boy, which probably I posted on this forum before but it applies here...:. When I would confess my sins to the priest, he would then ask me upon leaving the confessional but before leaving the building to do a penance which often consisted of saying the prayer, "Our Father" [Matt 6:9-13] a certain number of times. Anxious to get on with my day and my own activities [having fun of course] I became very proficient in reciting that 'prayer' super fast so as to fulfill the letter of what the priest had required of me without "wasting" time. Thus whether the penance was three times or 10 times, I was soon out of there and ready to do my own things as God was for the moment handled.
One of those times after confession when I went out to do my penance, God smote my heart about what I had done so many times in the past and was about to do one more time. At the time I did not own and had never read the Bible, but I see now that these words applied to what I have been doing:
"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me." Matt 15:8
Even though I did not know that verse God spoke its meaning to me. From that day forward for as long as I was a formal believing practicing Catholic, no more idle words came out of my mouth when doing penance. I prayed each 'Our Father' carefully thinking about the meaning of those words and just who I was talking to... They had been idle, but they were no longer idle!
I have not been a practicing Catholic for more than 50 years, but that and several other things I learned from God as a Catholic are still in my heart.
Give God the glory!
By the way, quite few years ago I began saying the "Our Father' every morning in my time alone with God. That continues to this day. I say or pray a lot of other things, but my lesson as a young Catholic remains. No idle words!
Augustin56
Well-Known Member
amadeus, thanks for sharing your story. I find it very interesting. Were you aware that at every Mass, the Bible is read and explained? It's only been fairly recent in history that there was any interest in the world for universal literacy. So, most people could hear the Word of God and hear what it meant, even if they were illiterate. Most people were illiterate before then. My own grandfather could neither read nor write, but he could sign his name.
And, we have the Eucharist, which is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ under the appearances of bread and wine. I just got back from a visit with Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. I wouldn't give Him up for anything.
If you wouldn't mind sharing, why did you leave? (If you don't, that's okay.) There's always a place for you if you feel God calling you back, you know?
God bless!
Yes, I am aware that they read the Bible regularly at every mass. That was not so when I attended as a boy in San Juan Bautista, CA and the mass itself was conducted in Latin. I still remember a couple of the responses I used to make as an altar boy.
My name on forums, Amadeus, was my Confirmation name.
I am glad you are able to get something from it. Other than a few funerals I haven't been to a Catholic church regularly in about 60 years.
When I graduated from high school [1961] I moved to a large city [San Jose, CA]. I was looking for something and tried attending mass there, but it was not the same. Later, I also tried attending while I was on active duty in Viet Nam [1964-1965], but again I found nothing to hold me.
When I married in 1972, my mother contacted a Catholic priest she knew and he performed the ceremony in the chapel at San Jose State where I had obtained my degree.
In 1973, we returned to San Juan Bautista for our son's baptism in my first Catholic Church.
In 1976 we were led to Pentecostal church in El Sobrante CA. My job moved me to a couple of places in California as well as to Wyoming and finally Oklahoma. We belonged to Pentecostal churches in each of those places, but since they pushed out our pastor in 2018, we have not belonged to another church.
While we are actually trying to visit a few churches now, there are too many differences in what we believe to make returning to Catholicism likely. My wife also grew up as the lone active Catholic in her family but was out by the time I met her.
Holy Mary, Mother of God , pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. is nowhere in the Bible. We are told to p ray to the Father through the Son. Mary couldn't hear your prayers anyway. Neither can the saints. Only God is omniscient.
There are no rosaries in the Bible either.
It bothers me greatly that all of the attributes of the Son, are now attributed to Mary.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Yes He permits it.
Even in a believer He will allow it at first. when I firstr was saved, I knew no bible and went back to Catholicism. I did all the saints and Mary praying, but god sent me a SCripture and in time I learned this was wrong.
He takes us where we are at (even praying the Rosary in ignorance) and grows us.
yes, what what happens when what was done in ignorance because denial of truth?
Augustin56
Well-Known Member
How great your misunderstanding. Sad, too.
Read the following article, prayerfully, and with an open mind. It will enligthen you.
Why Do Catholics Pray to Saints?
The historic practice of asking saints in heaven for their intercession is questioned by many. Explore the common arguments and the Catholic beliefs.
I'll stick with how the Holy Spirit reveals truth through His Word and not read what false teachers will write as they twist scripture.How great your misunderstanding. Sad, too.
Read the following article, prayerfully, and with an open mind. It will enligthen you.
Why Do Catholics Pray to Saints?
The historic practice of asking saints in heaven for their intercession is questioned by many. Explore the common arguments and the Catholic beliefs.www.catholic.com
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
Nowhere in the Bible does is say all authentic beliefs, practices and devotions must be explicitly spelled out in the Bible.
If being in heaven were like being in the next room, then of course these objections would be valid. A mortal, unglorified person in the next room would indeed suffer the restrictions imposed by the way space and time work in our universe. But the saints are not in the next room, and they are not subject to the time/space limitations of this life.
This does not imply that the saints in heaven therefore must be omniscient, as God is, for it is only through God’s willing it that they can communicate with others in heaven or with us.
"all of the attributes of the Son, are now attributed to Mary" is completely false. Explanations have been provided, you just don't want them.
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
Why Do Catholics Pray to Saints?
The historic practice of asking saints in heaven for their intercession is questioned by many. Explore the common arguments and the Catholic beliefs.
www.catholic.com
Simply asserting "false teachers" is not discussion.
Omnia ad Jesum per Mariam/ I don't think so. Jesus says "No one cometh unto the Father but by me." No need for Mary.
We can pray to the Lord directly through Jesus name. No need for saints or Mary.
God does not give omniscience to anyone. It is part of being God.
Don't need to. I believe the dead rest in the grave till the resurrection. And Mary cannot "pray for us"How great your misunderstanding. Sad, too.
Read the following article, prayerfully, and with an open mind. It will enligthen you.
Why Do Catholics Pray to Saints?
The historic practice of asking saints in heaven for their intercession is questioned by many. Explore the common arguments and the Catholic beliefs.
I feel sorry for you.
Augustin56
Well-Known Member
And what guarantee do you have that your interpretation of Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit and not just your personal interpretation filtered through 21st century lenses and your own experiences?
The Baptists believe that Baptism of infants is invalid. Anglicans and Episcopaleans (and Lutherans?) believe it is valid. All read the same Word of God and all claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit, but they come up with contradictory interpretations. All cannot be correct.
The bottom line is, you alone can have no certitude that your personal interpretation is correct. Even St. Peter warns against personal interpretation of Scripture in 2 Peter 1:20-21.
If you want to assure you have the interpretation of the Word of God that the Apostles have, you need to listen to the Church founded by Christ, who wrote the New Testament and decided which books belonged in it, and which St. Paul (1 Tim 3:15) called the "pillar and foundation of truth.".
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Augustin56
Well-Known Member
Mary can certainly pray for us. She is in heaven, fully united to God. She is, according to Rev. 12:1, the queen of heaven. She is the "woman* clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." What women wear crowns? Queens. She is the equivalent of the Queen Mother (the King's mother) in kingdoms. Jesus is our King. His mother is the Queen Mother.
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