Abraham, by faith or works

[Stranger]

I will have to see what you say about Acts 22:17:18 because I only remember a number of people warning Paul not to go when he would be imprisoned and taken to Rome. I simply am not remembering the one you mention.

Why did Paul specify Titus was a Greek if that was not relevant. Remember he aided another to circumcise Timothy who was considered a Jew because his mother was a Jew; though his father was not.

Even though James urged Paul to purify himself to reveal he was still an observant Jew he also told the Gentiles that they need not concern themselves with non-moral issues like circumcision and purification. Today's Jews agree with James and Paul and not with the false brothers.

I think that most of Paul's disagreement with the circumcision group was about circumcision.

Here is a Scripture to ponder. Consider that circumcision is a commandment of God to Abraham and his descendants but not to anyone else.



Here you will see that one must be circumcised in order to be a son of Abraham; much less a Jew.

Yes, Paul was warned by people through the Holy Spirit not to go to Jerusalem. In Acts 22:17-21 you don't remember reading of this before because this is the first time Paul has said it. But it is so. After his conversion he went back to Jerusalem and there the Lord warned him to leave Jerusalem because they would not receive his testimony.

I see your point with Titus. He was Greek which made his situation different. All Jews would have been circumcised. It makes you wonder why Timothy had not been as it is done at an early age. Still, Paul was not pressured by others to do it. I am of the opinion that had he been, in order to keep the law, he would have refused, as he did with Titus.

Circumcision was also before the Law. Meaning, for the Jew to be circumcised was not a keeping of the Law of Moses. It was a sign of the Abrahamic Covenant.

So, my point is this. Paul had been warned by God that Jerusalem would not receive his testimony and to leave. Paul was warned by God through his friends not to go to Jerusalem. But he did anyway. And being wrong in this it is easy to be wrong in other things. Thus when James encouraged him to show others he kept the law, he did. Another wrong in my opinion.

It is my opinion also that Paul admits to this in Acts 23:1 " And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day." Note 'until this day'. I think he knew he was wrong in this.

Stranger

 

[FHII]

Yes, Paul was warned by people through the Holy Spirit not to go to Jerusalem. In Acts 22:17-21 you don't remember reading of this before because this is the first time Paul has said it. But it is so. After his conversion he went back to Jerusalem and there the Lord warned him to leave Jerusalem because they would not receive his testimony.

I see your point with Titus. He was Greek which made his situation different. All Jews would have been circumcised. It makes you wonder why Timothy had not been as it is done at an early age. Still, Paul was not pressured by others to do it. I am of the opinion that had he been, in order to keep the law, he would have refused, as he did with Titus.

Circumcision was also before the Law. Meaning, for the Jew to be circumcised was not a keeping of the Law of Moses. It was a sign of the Abrahamic Covenant.

So, my point is this. Paul had been warned by God that Jerusalem would not receive his testimony and to leave. Paul was warned by God through his friends not to go to Jerusalem. But he did anyway. And being wrong in this it is easy to be wrong in other things. Thus when James encouraged him to show others he kept the law, he did. Another wrong in my opinion.

It is my opinion also that Paul admits to this in Acts 23:1 " And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day." Note 'until this day'. I think he knew he was wrong in this.

Stranger

Paul was not wrong to go to Jerusalem. He wasn't accepted, but that doesn't mean he didn't do the Lord's will. Have a look at Acts 23:11

 

[kerwin]

Yes, Paul was warned by people through the Holy Spirit not to go to Jerusalem. In Acts 22:17-21 you don't remember reading of this before because this is the first time Paul has said it. But it is so. After his conversion he went back to Jerusalem and there the Lord warned him to leave Jerusalem because they would not receive his testimony.

I see your point with Titus. He was Greek which made his situation different. All Jews would have been circumcised. It makes you wonder why Timothy had not been as it is done at an early age. Still, Paul was not pressured by others to do it. I am of the opinion that had he been, in order to keep the law, he would have refused, as he did with Titus.

Circumcision was also before the Law. Meaning, for the Jew to be circumcised was not a keeping of the Law of Moses. It was a sign of the Abrahamic Covenant.

So, my point is this. Paul had been warned by God that Jerusalem would not receive his testimony and to leave. Paul was warned by God through his friends not to go to Jerusalem. But he did anyway. And being wrong in this it is easy to be wrong in other things. Thus when James encouraged him to show others he kept the law, he did. Another wrong in my opinion.

It is my opinion also that Paul admits to this in Acts 23:1 " And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day." Note 'until this day'. I think he knew he was wrong in this.

Stranger

You are putting to much meaning into the meaning into the words "until this day" as they are said to avoid the meaning covering times in future of which the speaker has no knowledge. It is like using the words "if God so wills" when speaking of future plans. Usually, the words are "to this day". (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

 

[Stranger]

Paul was not wrong to go to Jerusalem. He wasn't accepted, but that doesn't mean he didn't do the Lord's will. Have a look at Acts 23:11

God told Paul before, right after his conversion, Acts 22:18, "...Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me."

God told Paul not to go to Jerusalem. Acts 21:4. "And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem."

Because of Paul's constant ignoring of these commands, the prophet Agabus says, Acts 21:10-11 "And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet named Agabus. And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, so shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles."

How is it the Lords will when the Lord told him not to go? Just because Paul disobeyed, didn't mean God abondoned him. He didn't. Thus He speaks to him encouraging words in Acts 23:11. But before He spoke those words, He spoke the words of warning of not to go to Jerusalem.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You are putting to much meaning into the meaning into the words "until this day" as they are said to avoid the meaning covering times in future of which the speaker has no knowledge. It is like using the words "if God so wills" when speaking of future plans. Usually, the words are "to this day". (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Perhaps you are putting to much meaning in the words 'until this day'.

Stranger

 

[kerwin]

Perhaps you are putting to much meaning in the words 'until this day'.

Stranger

You could be correct.