Abraham's time, whole point rested on Jews or Gentiles?

[shturt678]

RANDOR'S multiple choice during Abraham's time:

1) The Jewish nation was to be included as "sons of Abraham"?

2) The Gentile nations were to be included as "sons of Abraham"?

Explanations welcomed

Old Jack

 

[RANDOR]

These questions are way to hard...you must have gotten plenty of sleep last night.
Look..lets try some easier questions for a change...it is the weekend ya know.
Example of an easier question:::::::How much does the moon weigh?...ya know..questions like that.

 

[Nomad]

Hi Jack,

I may be missing the point of your question but the following passages come to mind:

Gal 3:6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
Gal 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Rom 4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring--not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations"--in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Hi Jack,

I may be missing the point of your question but the following passages come to mind:

Gal 3:6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
Gal 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Rom 4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring--not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations"--in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

I think that sums it up. We have been grafted in to the descendants of Abraham and the covenant. I've seen this taken too far with American or British Israelism doctrines and often this feeds into Christian Identity and other groups that believe whites are God's chosen people. I guess some people read way too much into this.

 

[shturt678]

Hi Jack,

I may be missing the point of your question but the following passages come to mind:

Gal 3:6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
Gal 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Rom 4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring--not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations"--in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

Thank you for your response!

I was in RANDOR's shoes as to what I was getting at...you cleared it up for both of us.

Old Jack,

Always enjoy this area...I just didn't pose it correctly rethinking it...you came through on this one.

 

[RANDOR]

Thank you for your response!

I was in RANDOR's shoes as to what I was getting at...you cleared it up for both of us.

Old Jack,

Always enjoy this area...I just didn't pose it correctly rethinking it...you came through on this one.

So that's where my shoes went....and my belt is still missin..............if you need clothes just ask.

 

[Nomad]

Great! I'm glad I could help. Randor, I'm sorry, but I don't know where your belt is. LOL

 

[aspen]

Everyone who exercises faith in God is related to Abraham. It was his faith that made Him chosen by God as the father of the faithful.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

In the 8th century, there was a pedophile who started a religion claiming he was descended directly from Abraham. I'm just leery on anyone who makes too big a deal out of being related to Abraham and automatically suspect their motives.

 

[Forsakenone]

Example of an easier question:::::::How much does the moon weigh?...ya know..questions like that.

How much does the moon weight? LOL. Since the weight of any object is no greater and no lesser than the mass of its total volume then the answer is obviously 0.

But the topic reminds me of the guy who believed he couldn't be convicted of raping and murdering an old woman during a robbery since he was meticulous so that there would not be any physical evidence found on the body of the victim or the crime scene that could connect him to the crime. One of the investigators who was first to arrive at the crime scene had placed the woman's parrot back in its cage to keep it from possibly disturbing any of the evidence. After a through search, the investigators could not locate any physical evidence that would be able to connect anyone to the crime even if they had a lead to the identity of the possible murderer.

When discussing the lack of evidence at the scene, one of the investigators made the comment that only witness to the murder was the parrot and that he wasn't talking. The comment caused of one of the investigators who was annoyed at the constant squawking of the parrot during their investigation to remembered a scripture that he heard as a child that said 'believe all things'. While the other investigators couldn't believe what they were hearing their colleague asking when he said that they needed to examine the parrot.

So when brought in for questioning, the suspect who expected to be brought in for questioning since he had just recently been released from prison as a result of a previous rape conviction denied knowing the victim or having ever been to the location of the crime. The police told him that they had an eyewitness that put him at the scene of the crime and the suspect just laughed knowing that nobody saw him. The suspect's attorney asked who the suspect was, and the police informed him the victim's parrot. The suspect started laughing and his attorney stated that it was ridiculous and that if that was all they had then they had better let his client go immediately. So the police asked the suspect if he denied the testimony of the parrot that he had seen the suspect. The suspect replied that he had been around a parrot in years. At which point, the police arrested the suspect.

[During the crime, the parrot which was later learned had the ability to open his own cage, had gotten out and attempted to protect his keeper. During the examination of the parrot, the investigators found skin tissue under the talons of the parrot which was which matched the DNA of the suspect. With the testimony of the suspect's statement and the parrot, the suspect was convicted for the rape of the elderly woman.]

I think that sums it up. We have been grafted in to the descendants of Abraham and the covenant

After all it must have been God who told Abram to circumcise Ishmael, cause you can only believe by faith.

An eye for eye, tooth for a tooth, and skin for skin.

 

[shturt678]

How much does the moon weight? LOL. Since the weight of any object is no greater and no lesser than the mass of its total volume then the answer is obviously 0.

But the topic reminds me of the guy who believed he couldn't be convicted of raping and murdering an old woman during a robbery since he was meticulous so that there would not be any physical evidence found on the body of the victim or the crime scene that could connect him to the crime. One of the investigators who was first to arrive at the crime scene had placed the woman's parrot back in its cage to keep it from possibly disturbing any of the evidence. After a through search, the investigators could not locate any physical evidence that would be able to connect anyone to the crime even if they had a lead to the identity of the possible murderer.

When discussing the lack of evidence at the scene, one of the investigators made the comment that only witness to the murder was the parrot and that he wasn't talking. The comment caused of one of the investigators who was annoyed at the constant squawking of the parrot during their investigation to remembered a scripture that he heard as a child that said 'believe all things'. While the other investigators couldn't believe what they were hearing their colleague asking when he said that they needed to examine the parrot.

So when brought in for questioning, the suspect who expected to be brought in for questioning since he had just recently been released from prison as a result of a previous rape conviction denied knowing the victim or having ever been to the location of the crime. The police told him that they had an eyewitness that put him at the scene of the crime and the suspect just laughed knowing that nobody saw him. The suspect's attorney asked who the suspect was, and the police informed him the victim's parrot. The suspect started laughing and his attorney stated that it was ridiculous and that if that was all they had then they had better let his client go immediately. So the police asked the suspect if he denied the testimony of the parrot that he had seen the suspect. The suspect replied that he had been around a parrot in years. At which point, the police arrested the suspect.

[During the crime, the parrot which was later learned had the ability to open his own cage, had gotten out and attempted to protect his keeper. During the examination of the parrot, the investigators found skin tissue under the talons of the parrot which was which matched the DNA of the suspect. With the testimony of the suspect's statement and the parrot, the suspect was convicted for the rape of the elderly woman.]


After all it must have been God who told Abram to circumcise Ishmael, cause you can only believe by faith.

An eye for eye, tooth for a tooth, and skin for skin.

Amen!

Old Jack that appreciated your response for sure...have lots of expensive flying Parrots over here that escaped those chains of confinement, or simply undid the cage door lock? RANDOR bring you net...tired of being so broke.

Hi Jack,

I may be missing the point of your question but the following passages come to mind:

Gal 3:6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
Gal 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Rom 4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring--not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations"--in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

So there was no Jewish nation in Abraham's time?

Old curious Jack

 

[Nomad]

So there was no Jewish nation in Abraham's time?

No the Jewish nation began with Jacob and his 12 sons. What I was trying to point out in my previous post is that there are sons of Abraham after the flesh, as in physical descendants, then there are those who are the sons of Abraham through faith in Christ.

So what prompted your OP Jack? I'm just curious.

 

[shturt678]

No the Jewish nation began with Jacob and his 12 sons. What I was trying to point out in my previous post is that there are sons of Abraham after the flesh, as in physical descendants, then there are those who are the sons of Abraham through faith in Christ.

So what prompted your OP Jack? I'm just curious.

Thank you for your response and articulating thoughts again!

Had nothing to do with you my friend nor your words on this one. Long ago, whenever my Jew Hebrew prof. that loved the A.V. would attempt to get under my skin, I used Gal.3:8 my rendition along with other passages, "all the nations" saying "remember there were no Jews back at Abraham's time"...that would do it - lol now, but not then. btw he was an excellent prof....cut me a lot of slack towards the end.

Rough in the mean time, old Jack

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Thank you for your response and articulating thoughts again!

Had nothing to do with you my friend nor your words on this one. Long ago, whenever my Jew Hebrew prof. that loved the A.V. would attempt to get under my skin, I used Gal.3:8 my rendition along with other passages, "all the nations" saying "remember there were no Jews back at Abraham's time"...that would do it - lol now, but not then. btw he was an excellent prof....cut me a lot of slack towards the end.

Rough in the mean time, old Jack

I don't know if I agree with that, Jack. Considering the covenant was made between Abraham and God and the sign of the covenant, circumcision, was conducted by Abraham on all his family and male servants, I'd say they were more Jewish than anyone. That's the very essence of the Jewish identity, the covenant and circumcision.