Abundant Living.

[farouk]

Hi Enoch111,

That sounds fine to me if that is what your faith tells you. I think all the purposes of the Sabbath are fulfilled in the New Covenant Christian every day.

And for the Lord's Supper, why restrict to a given day? Why not as often as you eat and drink, remember the Lord's death? We only get to until He comes.

Interesting point about the Sabbath, creation, and sin. "Behold, I make all things new." And He starts with us.

Much love!
Mark

Seems that the Apostolic practice was to break bread on the first day of the week (Acts 20...)

 

[marks]

Seems that the Apostolic practice was to break bread on the first day of the week (Acts 20...)

Hi farouk,

This part:

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

Is this describing what they were doing that day, or prescribing a practice for us to follow?

Much love!
mark

 

[farouk]

Hi farouk,

This part:

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

Is this describing what they were doing that day, or prescribing a practice for us to follow?

Much love!
mark

It's good practice, and relates to the now living One Whom we remember 'till He come' (1 Corinthians 11.26) in the light of the Resurrection.

 

[marks]

It's good practice, and relates to the now living One Whom we remember 'till He come' (1 Corinthians 11.26) in the light of the Resurrection.

Absolutely agreed! For myself, I like to take communion often. I need frequent reminders!

Much love!
Mark

 

[brakelite]

Now because Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, He also has the right and the authority to give His Church "the Lord's Day" (the first day of the week) in place of the Sabbath. Therefore all the purposes of the sabbath (rest, worship, good works) are fulfilled by Christians on the Lord's Day (provided they take it seriously). The seventh day refers back to the original creation, and because it was marred by sin, the eighth day symbolizes the New Creation in Christ -- the Church. The Lord's Supper and the Lord's Table are reserved for the Lord's Day, not the Sabbath.

Also, Christians should note that the Sabbath was specifically given to Israel, but nowhere in the NT is the Sabbath given to the Church. Indeed it is regarded as the shadow, with Christ as the substance (as pertains to the rest of the soul in Christ).

It is true that the 7th day Sabbath refers back to creation, but Israel also celebrated the weekly Sabbath as a sign of their being sanctified. So it not only looked back as a memorial, but forward as a promise. That promise still stands, and even in eternity we will be continuing to gather together every Sabbath to corporately honour our Creator. (Isaiah 66)
But the rest of your post is pure speculation an human invention. Yes, creation was marred by sin. But the Sabbath was instituted before sin...and instituted by Christ Himself, which is why He is Lord of the Sabbath. It is His day...the Lord's day. The first day of the week is not, nor has it ever been, the Lord's day. Jesus Himself told us what day was His. And what is more, the same blessing, the same holiness, the same promise of rest and peace that comes from observing it, remains. There is no scriptural evidence anywhere in the Bible that intimates in the slightest that He replaced the 7th day Sabbath with the 1st day. Not even the apostles or early disciples taught sucha thing, and the early church continued to observe Sabbath until the apostasy began to set in in Rome.
By the way, again, as you stated, the Sabbath was instituted at creation, before sin, thus was never instituted as a remedy for sin, nor as a type or shadow of Christ or His ministry. Just as the first marriage was at creation, before sin, and no change made as a consequence to marriage, being a holy institution so is Sabbath.

 

[brakelite]

Hi farouk,

This part:

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

Is this describing what they were doing that day, or prescribing a practice for us to follow?

Much love!
mark

Or was it merely a communal meal as they gathered together to farewell Paul on his journey? This meal taking place on the dark part, the evening, of that first day after having spent the Sabbath together.

 

[Enoch111]

But the rest of your post is pure speculation an human invention.

I can understand you making that remark since you are committed to the Seventh Day Sabbath according to your church's belief.. But you will be hard-pressed to find any directive to Christians to continue observing this day as their day of worship. And the proof is in Acts 15.

 

[brakelite]

I can understand you making that remark since you are committed to the Seventh Day Sabbath according to your church's belief.. But you will be hard-pressed to find any directive to Christians to continue observing this day as their day of worship. And the proof is in Acts 15.

Well my friend, allow me to disabuse you of the idea that I observe the Sabbath because it happens to be in line with the teachings of my church. I observe the Sabbath because nowhere in scripture is there evidence that the holiness and blessing attached to that day has been removed. What God tells Israel in Isaiah 58 applies equally to the church...all 13 or so verses. As does the Ten Commandments, which you confirmed in an earlier post. God cannot change that which He established as a permanent edict...He says, remember to keep holy My Sabbath. It is already holy. From when? From creation. What evidence is there of any change? Of any removal of said holiness? Of any transference of that holiness to another day?
As to your reference to Acts 15. I am glad you included the whole chapter in your reference. The context of the whole debate was spawned by the Pharisees and newly converted Jewish Christians regarding the necessity or otherwise of circumcision. Since the time of Abraham all male children of Israel had been physically circumcised. This had become an entrenched tradition, and one can fully appreciate the concerns new converts may have had in this regard. I can well imagine the Pharisees and Jewish rulers pointing to the neglect of circumcision as evidence that this new movement was a cult. The very same can be said for the Sabbath. It is intrinsically a mark of identification that set the Israeli people apart...and still does. Any change to another day would have been equally, perhaps even more controversial, than any change in circumcision. Yet where is that debate? Where is that controversy? In Acts, there is none. No controversy or debate arose regarding the observance of Sabbath in the early church until the Roman apostasy began enforcing it in the 3rd century. That prior to this some were observing Sunday is certainly true, but only a few in number, and only in Rome and Alexandria, where pagan Roman persecution was most decided against Jews, so several Christians, in deciding to separate themselves from Jewry and be seen to be different, compromised by observing Sunday in deference to the popular Roman militia Mithraic practice. But in the time of the apostles, as shown in Acts, there was no debate or controversy over Sabbath keeping! The only reason this could be so is that there wasn't any controversy because everyone still observed the Sabbath according to the commandment.
Today, the same thing is happening. To make itself more 'relevant'...more popular...more 'contemporary'...the modern church is compromising in areas where doctrine and practice separates the church from the world. Becoming more like the world, the church is as a consequence flooding back to Mother Rome, the harlot who started all this sorry mess.
Two solidly Catholic doctrines are the foundation of everything else Rome accepts as dogma. The trinity, and Sunday sacredness. Two areas where Protestantism has had the most difficulty in stepping away from, because Protestants are no longer protesting, and no longer sola scriptura. They adhere to Catholic tradition in both of these doctrines, and lose all credibility by succumbing to Roman authority in the acceptance of both.

 

[Pearl]

Jesus summed it up most succinctly in Matthew 22:36-40:

‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’ Jesus replied: ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’

This cover all ten of the commandments given to Moses. Love is the key to obedience; love for God and for other people.

 

[brakelite]

Jesus summed it up most succinctly in Matthew 22:36-40:

‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’ Jesus replied: ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’

This cover all ten of the commandments given to Moses. Love is the key to obedience; love for God and for other people.

Hi Pearl. One could also say of equal force and truth, that obedience is the key to love. Obedience is the only true way of expressing love.
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments.
Do you realise there is only one church among the many thousands that are in existence that claim the title Christian, just one church that Satan hates? We find this in Revelation. We read in
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Now who specifically is this wrath directed against? We see who a few verses later,
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Now many people like to believe that the woman is Israel. Not so. This woman is the bride. This woman who loves Jesus is His church. The devil cannot attack Jesus directly, but he knows that if he attacks 'one of the least of these my brethren', as Paul found out on the road to Damascus, he is attacking and persecuting Jesus. And what is it that makes this church special? She keeps God's commandments, and has faith in Jesus. One cannot love God in disobedience. Jesus said "if ye love Me keep My commandments". True worship comprises true obedience. Keeping the commandments of men is vain worship. Adhering to tradition is vain worship. And no covenant relationship with God was established without obedience, both in the OT and NT.
Obedience to God's commandments and love for God are not two distinct separate concepts. They are one and the same. How do you suppose the devil managed to persuade 1/3 of the pure, holy, angels in heaven on to his side against God? Through obedience. Satan coveted worship; and the angels gave him that which he desired by surrendering to his opposition to the laws of God, setting up a rival government with its own laws, and he ha brought that same war against God's laws to earth, where he uses the church as his chief weapon, by having them preach that Christians can be saved while in disobedience to the commandments of God, even to the point of teaching that the law is now no longer binding.
The serpent promised Eve that if she disobeyed God, and ate of the tree of knowledge, she could become like God. Paul says in Romans that we are predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ, become like God in character, but the church is repeating Satan's lie that such can be done while disobeying God's commandments. And nearly all churches attack any Christian who upholds God's laws as sacrosanct, saying such is legalism, or attempting to earn his way to heaven through good works. Such are doing Satan's work for him.

 

[Pearl]

Hi Pearl. One could also say of equal force and truth, that obedience is the key to love. Obedience is the only true way of expressing love.
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments.
Do you realise there is only one church among the many thousands that are in existence that claim the title Christian, just one church that Satan hates? We find this in Revelation. We read in
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Now who specifically is this wrath directed against? We see who a few verses later,
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Now many people like to believe that the woman is Israel. Not so. This woman is the bride. This woman who loves Jesus is His church. The devil cannot attack Jesus directly, but he knows that if he attacks 'one of the least of these my brethren', as Paul found out on the road to Damascus, he is attacking and persecuting Jesus. And what is it that makes this church special? She keeps God's commandments, and has faith in Jesus. One cannot love God in disobedience. Jesus said "if ye love Me keep My commandments". True worship comprises true obedience. Keeping the commandments of men is vain worship. Adhering to tradition is vain worship. And no covenant relationship with God was established without obedience, both in the OT and NT.
Obedience to God's commandments and love for God are not two distinct separate concepts. They are one and the same. How do you suppose the devil managed to persuade 1/3 of the pure, holy, angels in heaven on to his side against God? Through obedience. Satan coveted worship; and the angels gave him that which he desired by surrendering to his opposition to the laws of God, setting up a rival government with its own laws, and he ha brought that same war against God's laws to earth, where he uses the church as his chief weapon, by having them preach that Christians can be saved while in disobedience to the commandments of God, even to the point of teaching that the law is now no longer binding.
The serpent promised Eve that if she disobeyed God, and ate of the tree of knowledge, she could become like God. Paul says in Romans that we are predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ, become like God in character, but the church is repeating Satan's lie that such can be done while disobeying God's commandments. And nearly all churches attack any Christian who upholds God's laws as sacrosanct, saying such is legalism, or attempting to earn his way to heaven through good works. Such are doing Satan's work for him.

I believe that obedience stems from love. If you first love it is easier to be obedient. Just my two penn'orth.

 

[Episkopos]

I believe that obedience stems from love. If you first love it is easier to be obedient. Just my two penn'orth.

As in...the love of God constrains us.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi farouk,

This part:

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

Is this describing what they were doing that day, or prescribing a practice for us to follow?

Much love!
mark

I guess they came together to break bread every day of the week, yes?

 

[bbyrd009]

As in...the love of God constrains us.

Nice. I'm always suspicious now of this unfocused "love" that so often gets thrown around, not saying that that is necessarily an example

 

[farouk]

I believe that obedience stems from love. If you first love it is easier to be obedient. Just my two penn'orth.

The Lord Jesus said: "If ye love Me, keep My commandments"(John 14.15).

 

[marks]

I guess they came together to break bread every day of the week, yes?

I'd be breaking bread every day of the week!