The Holy Ghost did not debunk the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ per Acts 2:38, but accompanied it.
Where did you come up with that one?
Seminary?
Acts 2:38 has been abandoned by Christianity
- Thread starter Truther
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Where did you come up with that one?
Seminary?
Since you reject Romans 6, you might try not rejecting Romans 7 which says your human spirit is saved and the carnal man is not.
The human spirit never get's converted, but is crucified daily for or spirit man to overcome.
It takes the carnal man to physically die(repent), be buried(water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins) and our spirit man can rise to walk a newness of life with the carnal man on the cross(receive the Holy Ghost).
Can't pick and choose.
The Holy Ghost can be gifted to us before or after water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sins.
No big deal.
The Lord, Jesus Christ doesn't see anything but "spirits" who are "DEAD" (Romans 5:12-14; I Corinthians 15:21-22) until "HE QUICKENS" (Ephesians 2:1) them "back to life" (Ephesians 2:1) by HIS "POWER that comes upon us" (Act 1:8) when "HE baptizes us with the Holy Ghost" (John 1:33; Acts 1:5; as we are "born again of the Spirit" (John 3:5-7).
Until THEN,
"God is not the God of the DEAD" (Mark 12:27).
10 "Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood" (Isaiah 1:10-15)!
No one can "harmonize" the man Peter (Acts 2:38) TRYING to OVERRULE GOD (Acts 1:5) who DID NOT "REMEMBER" until Acts 11:15-16.
It's a "big deal" when today's Christians TRY TO PRETEND they have received the Holy Ghost but don't have any of Jesus' promises HE PROMISED would come WITH HIS HOLY GHOST e.g.
"POWER" (Acts 1:8) after Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 1:5),
"SPIRITUAL GIFTS" (I Corinthians 12:7-10) after Holy Spirit baptism (I Corinthians 12:13) and
"SIGNS FOLLOWING" (Mark 16:17-18) after Holy Spirit baptism (Mark 16:16) to
"CONFIRM that the LORD is working with us with signs following" (Mark 16:20)!
"For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ" (Galatians 1:12)!
"But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God" (Acts 5:39)!
Let's look at the discussion:
"One baptism" (Ephesians 4:5)
Jesus does "with the Holy Ghost" (John 1:33; Acts 1:5) "PERFECTLY" (Psalm 18:30) Who gives "POWER" (Acts 1:8) "to become the sons of GOD" (John 1:12-13)
VS
A man's powerless water baptism that does NOTHING (Matthew 28:19+).
Which "one" would you choose?
ROMANS 6:3-4 HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A WATER BAPTISM WHEN VERSE 3 SAYS "BAPTISM" AND VERSE 4 SAYS IS "LIKE AS CHRIST WAS RAISED UP BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER" (ROMANS 6:4) WHO IS THE HOLY GHOST (JOHN 4:24).
CONSEQUENTLY ROMANS 6:3-4 IS REFERRING TO HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM!
@CadyandZoe
Who said "What about Acts 19?"
Paul had just had a "Night Vision" (Acts 18:9-10) in which Jesus REVEALED "the way of God more perfectly" (Acts 18:26) for baptism rather than a water baptism (Acts 18:25) after Peter ***REMEMBERED*** (Acts 11:15-16).
Therefore THE CHURCH was now "with one accord" again (Acts 1:5)!
However the LYING Roman Catholic Church (Jeremiah 8:8) "ADDED" another water baptism back into Scripture in Acts 19:5 as though Paul "FORGOT GOD" (Psalm 9:17) just gave him a "Night Vision" (Acts 18:9-10; 25-26) who allegedly water baptized John's already water baptized "disciples" (((AGAIN))) making them "repent" (((AGAIN))) and "believe Jesus was coming" (Acts 19:4) (((AGAIN!))) (Acts 19:1-5)!
ANYONE can hear the anxiousness in Paul's voice to make sure John's disciples had been Holy Spirit baptized after having his "Night Vision" in Acts 19:1-5,
BUT LOOK WHAT CATHOLICS DID TO JESUS (Acts 18:9-10; 25-26)!
PEOPLE!
YOU ALL ARE MESSED UP BELIEVING IN CATHOLIC'S WATER BAPTISM THAT LEAVES YOU POWERLESS (LUKE 19:40) "DEAD SPIRITS" (ROMANS 5:12-14; I CORINTHIANS 15:21-22) WHEN THERE IS ONLY "ONE BAPTISM" (EPHESIANS 4:5) THAT JESUS DOES "WITH THE HOLY GHOST" (JOHN 1:33; ACTS 1:5) WHO GIVES "POWER" (ACTS 1:8) "TO BECOME THE SONS OF GOD" (JOHN 1:12-13) WHO "HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST" (I CORINTHIANS 2:16)!
"DEAD SPIRITS"
WHO "KNOW NOTHING AT ALL" (ECCLESIASTES 9:5) THAT HAVE CREATED OVER 39.5K+ DIFFERENT SO CALLED "CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS" ALTHOUGH CHRIST HAS "ONE MIND" (PHILIPPIANS 2:2)!
YOU PEOPLE ARE IN (((A MESS))) WHO ONLY SERVE "AN IDOL" THAT WAS CREATED BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. A THING THAT IS ONLY CALLED "JESUS" (I CORINTHIANS 8:5)!
@CADYANDZOE
“Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins..." (I Peter 2:24)!
Compare Romans 6:3-4 to I Peter 2:24 to SEE we "bury our [Past Romans 3:25] sins into Christ" (Romans 6:3-4) the day Jesus "chooses and ordains" us (John 15:16) to become Christians (John 1:12-13) as we "WITNESS" (Acts 1:8; 22) His "POWER" [aka "His resurrection" Acts 1:22] coming upon us" (Acts 1:8) when Holy Spirit baptized (John 1:33; Acts 1:5).
TODAY'S CHRISTIANS HAVE NEVER BEEN TAUGHT
JESUS "CHOOSES AND ORDAINS US" (JOHN 15:16) TO BE CHRISTIANS WHEN "HE BAPTIZES US WITH THE HOLY GHOST" (JOHN 1:33; ACTS 1:5) AND WE "WITNESS" HIS "POWER COMING UPON US" (ACTS 1:8) WHICH IS (((HIS RESURRECTION))) (ACTS 1:22)!
“Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that He was taken up from us, (((MUST))) one be (((ORDAINED))) (John 15:16) to be a (((WITNESS))) (Acts 1:5;8) with us of (((HIS RESURRECTION"))) (Acts 1:22)!
"HE THAT HATH EARS, LET HIM HEAR!"
@CADYANDZOE
(((EVERYONE))) AND I DO MEAN (((EVERYONE))) IS GOING TO BE LOST FOR (((NOT))) >>>LISTENING TO JESUS<<< IN ACTS 1:5!
TODAY'S CHRISTIANS (((REFUSE))) TO >>>LISTEN TO JESUS<<< RATHER >>>LISTEN TO PETER<<< IN ACTS 2:38!
(((JESUS SAID))) >>>HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM<<< IN ACTS 1:5!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>CAN'T YOU HEAR JESUS?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
"MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE" (JOHN 10:27)!
WHY?
WHY WOULD YOU NOT >>>>LISTEN TO JESUS?<<<<<<<
WHY WOULD YOU LET CATHOLICS (((BRAINWASH))) YOU?
WHY?
YOU (((REFUSE))) TO ACKNOWLEDGE
>>>PETER (((DID NOT))) **REMEMBER** UNTIL ACTS 11:15-16!<<<
FOR THIS >>>>>>>>>>YOU WILL BE LOST!<<<<<<<<<<<
THUS SAITH THE LORD:
>>>>>>"CATHOLIC DOCTRINE! LET MY PEOPLE GO!"<<<<<<
TWO BAPTISMS WHEN EPHESIANS 4:5 SAYS "ONE BAPTISM?"
REALLY?
WHEN "...HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST" (JOHN 1:33)?
REALLY?
"PERFECTLY" (ACTS 18:26; PSALM 18:30)?
REALLY?
"WE ALL MUST STAND BEFORE THE JUDGEMENT SEAT OF CHRIST" ( II Corinthians 5:10)!
I WANT TO SEE EACH OF YOU EXPLAIN TO GOD WHY YOU
>>>>>>>>>>"DENIED THE POWER OF GOD"<<<<<<<<< (II TIMOTHY 3:5-7)
"BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST" (JOHN 1:33)?
EXPLAIN IT!
START NOW GETTING YOUR LIE TOGETHER!
@Truther
WHO SAID
Peter "overruled" God?
Acts 2 was a farce?
I have been BANNED for a week for not preaching secular catholic doctrine
(((BUT)))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>IT IS WRITTEN!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
(((JESUS SAID))) >>>HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM IN ACTS 1:5<<<<
READ IT!
(((BUT)))
(((PETER SAID))) >>>WATER BAPTISM IN ACTS 2:38!<<<
READ IT!
(((THE CHURCH))) "CONTINUED IN THE APOSTLES' DOCTRINE" (ACTS 2:42)
(((UNTIL)))
>>>>>>>>PETER (((REMEMBERED))) IN ACTS 11:15-16!<<<<<<
READ IT! >>>>>>>>>>>>IT IS WRITTEN!<<<<<<<<<<
Peter "overruled" God? YES!
Acts 2 was a farce? NO!
Jesus was (((FULFILLING SCRIPTURE))) of what HE had spoken in John 14:26
"I WILL BRING ALL THINGS TO YOUR (((REMEMBRANCE))) WHATSOEVER I'VE TOLD YOU"
WHICH IS WHY (((PETER REMEMBERED))) IN ACTS 11:15-16!
LET THE WORD OF GOD (((JUDGE)))!
DON'T BLAME IT ON ME!
GOD SENT ME (JEREMIAH 1:10) TO TELL THE WORLD (((THE TRUTH))) SAYING
"CATHOLIC DOCTRINE! LET MY PEOPLE GO!"
LET'S CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION UNDER MY NEW POST SINCE BANNED FROM THIS CONVERSATION!
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marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Having done a two years study of the New Testament Church I wish I could say that is the only thing they have ditched to suit their take on things. But, when you do a direct comparison, I am sure if Peter or Paul came back to life and visited the church today they would say "I want to see the church, not a social club."
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
What is not false doctrine is that Acts 2:38 say to repent and be baptised for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. How many ways can you interpret that?
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Not true Ferris. Most of the traditional churches do not baptise they sprinkle infants which is not baptism.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
I see confession of sin as putting of the old man and baptism as putting on the new.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Actually I think there is one more important than that, evidenced by what the New Testament Church preached. That was "Jesus Christ is Lord." They didn't preach the trinity.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
on a different subject, I note your words about Biden and abortion. Is it not true, that Trump who claimied to be anti abortion, actually allowed women to take the abortion pill at a clinic, and not at their home? This is the SAME as being PRO-ABORTION!
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Paul is not talking about burying our carnal nature in that passage. In order to understand Paul's meaning, we need to pay attention to the questions he is answering.
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
This rhetorical question follows from Paul's previous argument that God's grace is so extensive that he has forgiven us of all our transgressions. Our sins abound, but God's grace "super-abounds." Paul's objector will claim that Paul is promoting sin. If God's grace increased because our sin increased, and if this becomes a display of God's grace: then our sin glorifies God. And this conclusion proves that the gospel Paul preaches is false and Paul is a false teacher. Paul responds
May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
Here begins Paul's defense against the claim that the gospel Paul preaches is a false gospel because it promotes sin. Paul will argue to the contrary, that his Gospel teaches us the true nature and penalty of sin.
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
From Acts chapter 19, we are now familiar with the idiom "baptized into", which means "immersed into the teaching of someone." Those who were baptized into John, for instance, were immersed in John's teaching. Those of us who have been "baptized into Christ Jesus" are immersed in his teaching. Therefore, Paul argues, why would anyone immersed in the teaching of Christ Jesus still live in sin? Those who are immersed in the teaching of Christ Jesus, learned about his death.
Here is our first clue that Paul is NOT talking about death of self or the death of our carnal man. Though this teaching may be found elsewhere in the New Testament, that concept isn't the subject of Paul's point here. Paul isn't talking about OUR death; he is talking about the death of Christ Jesus -- what that means and why it was significant. And if we truly understood the significance of his death, we wouldn't want to continue in sin. We have been immersed in the teaching of his death, what it means, and why it is significant. Our death is not in view here.
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Bear in mind, Paul is still defending the gospel in this context. And so, if we read this as a treatise on how to be saved, we will miss the point. Paul is not giving us practical advice about how to get saved. He is defending the teaching of Christ Jesus and why his followers are not likely to continue to sin that grace might increase. He isn't saying, "Okay now, get baptized so that you too might be buried with him." No. He is saying, "the gospel we believe tells us that Christ died on the cross in order to free us from sin and just as God raised Jesus from the dead, he is going to raise us from the dead also. This teaching motivates us to walk in newness of life. We are "buried with him" if we agree that we deserved to die on the cross rather than him; and if we agree that God favored his son and will grant his appeal on our behalf to save us from our sins.
For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection
It is a mistake to read this as if Paul is saying, "since we got water baptized we will be counted among those in the resurrection of the dead." This is not what Paul has in mind. Notice his use of term "likeness" to describe the death of Christ Jesus and his resurrection. The followers of Jesus are not hoping for a "likeness" of his resurrection; they are hoping for actual resurrection. Therefore, Paul is not speaking about actual resurrection; he is speaking about the likeness of resurrection.
In other words, when I enter into new life to become a follower of Jesus through the rite of water baptism, I picture my own death to sin, having employed a visual picture of burial, which is likened to Jesus actual burial in the ground. Then, when I emerge from the water, I have employed a visual image of my future resurrection when, at that time, I will be not only free of the penalty of sin; I will be free of sin itself, no longer to sin ever again. Since my hope is set on that day, when I get out of the water, I am committed to living in the light of that hope, walking in newness of life.
What is the point of this? Paul is arguing that the followers of Jesus are motivated to avoid sin, not to increase in sin, based on what they believe about the necessity of the cross and the significance of the cross as it relates to both Jesus and his followers. Why would someone who hopes to be set free from sin continue to live in it?
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I ask the question in order to point out the cultural significance of baptism and what it actually means. This thread discusses why someone or some church might not practice baptism. I maintain that the current understanding of baptism, by and large, is erroneous and not at all what Jesus and the Apostles meant. For this reason, people are not rejecting Biblical baptism as it was taught in the scriptures, they are rejecting the cultural baptism of our day.
I was trying to get truther to review Acts chapter 19, where we get a glimpse into the meaning and significance of Biblical baptism. In that passage we see a conversation between Paul and some disciples. And when we pay attention to what they say with their words, we discern the fact that "baptism" was a common cultural practice with a meaning lost to our generation. In Paul's day, to be baptized "into" a teacher was to be immersed in his teaching. Paul asks them, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they answer "Into John's baptism", meaning they were immersed in John's teaching. John's "baptism" is the totality of his teaching, which is why Paul is able to remind them of John's teaching, and build on that. One would come after John and that person is Jesus.
My question is this, if water baptism was the initiation rite into a lifetime of following a particular teacher, is water baptism actually necessary and essential? Suppose a person, living in our time, is a dedicated follower of Jesus? And suppose they decide, knowing that Jesus wouldn't approve of the erroneous meaning we have assigned to the water ritual, decides against it? Are we going to say such a person is anathema? Really?
Don't get me wrong. I was baptized and I encourage anyone who asks me to get baptized. But I encourage everyone to understand the Biblical meaning of baptism and why it had significance back in the first century.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Ask yourself this question. What is Peter actually saying? Is he saying
A. forget about following Jesus. Just simply repent and get into a bath of water?
or
B. Repent and dedicate the rest of your life to follow and practice the teachings of Jesus?
It's a question of meaning; what did baptism mean in the first century and what does it mean now?
Some churches, for instance, teach that baptism is the initiation rite performed on those who seek to become members of a particular church or denomination. Is that what Peter meant? Join a church and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit?
I don't think that is what Peter meant. So think about all the other meanings ascribed to baptism today. Did Peter mean any or all of those? I think we would do better to find out what ideas Peter meant to convey and to encourage people to do THAT.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
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