After your born again do you think you will never sin again?

[CrowCross]

I'm interested to hear from people who do believe that they are sinless.

We are sinless in the fact that all of our sins have been forgiven...past, present and future and none of them will be counted against us.

But do we still sin? Yes.

As @Jericho posted above...."Being saved doesn't prevent anyone from sinning. We still have the free will to choose to sin or not, and we still live in a corrupted body that has its own fleshly desires. But a true conversion should reduce the desire and frequency to sin. And if one does sin, it should produce a sense of regret and the desire for repentance."

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Doctrines of demons... Geez. Whatever.
This will be my final post to you.

You call people who disagree with you heretics that follow doctrines of demons. And many people who disagree with you would call you a heretic (not me).
Where does that leave you?
Two Christians who disagree and are pointing fingers at each other, calling one another a heretic. Thats no good. It's a form of personal attack that gets you no where.

I prefer to accept the fact that different people have different opinions, interpretations and perspectives rather than slandering them with such terms.

An overwhelming majority of Christians disagree with you on this and you choose to align us all with demons and say we are going to hell. I certainly don't think any Christian is going to hell for misunderstanding a piece of theology. I think faith in Christ is the most important thing

You thought you were free from ever sinning yet you caught yourself intentionally sinning. You proved your belief to be wrong. Stop deceiving yourself.

We have different opinions on this matter. Difference is that you view me as a satanic heretic that's going to hell whereas I still view you as a sister in Christ.

All the best with your personal struggle
Much love and God bless

View attachment 88344

Again, you don't read. I don't call people on this forum heretics. But I do call some church fathers heretics, like Martin Luther and John Calvin. They didn't have the Holy Spirit. Certainly not when Calvin murdered a man for disagreeing with his heretical new doctrine, nor Luther when he wrote to his friend and told him to "SIN BOLDLY, grace will cover it!" All I'm trying to do with you is to ask you to Read Romans 7 from verse one, not verse fourteen to find that 14-25 is about people still under the Law of Moses, like the Jews which Jesus freed us from by freeing us from SIN. The Law was for sinners. Jesus took away our sin from our sin nature, making it clean.

 

[CrowCross]

Again, you don't read. I don't call people on this forum heretics. But I do call some church fathers heretics, like Martin Luther and John Calvin. They didn't have the Holy Spirit. Certainly not when Calvin murdered a man for disagreeing with his heretical new doctrine, nor Luther when he wrote to his friend and told him to "SIN BOLDLY, grace will cover it!" All I'm trying to do with you is to ask you to Read Romans 7 from verse one, not verse fourteen to find that 14-25 is about people still under the Law of Moses, like the Jews which Jesus freed us from by freeing us from SIN. The Law was for sinners. Jesus took away our sin from our sin nature, making it clean.

I'd be careful of who you say does or doesn't have the Holy Spirit.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I'd be careful of who you say does or doesn't have the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. Luther and Calvin's doctrines were doctrines of demons. Jesus said or them in Revelation 3:1, "you have a name (reputation) that you are alive, but you are dead." Whose doctrines cause death? Demons, that's who.

 

[CrowCross]

The Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. Luther and Calvin's doctrines were doctrines of demons. Jesus said or them in Revelation 3:1, "you have a name (reputation) that you are alive, but you are dead." Whose doctrines cause death? Demons, that's who.

Perhaps you can present an example from both Luther or Calvin.

 

[The Learner]

I disagree with that.

Considering you've had your own struggle with sin I would of thought you'd reconsider your opinion on this topic. But you are not interested in doing that.

How then do you explain the struggle with sin that many Christians experience, including yours and mine?
Mine sins are thoughts of envy and lust, unwilling sins as i cant control what pops into my mind. How do you explain that?

Romans 8

Easy-to-Read Version

​

Life in the Spirit​

8 So now anyone who is in Christ Jesus is not judged guilty. 2 That is because in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit that brings life made you[a] free. It made you free from the law that brings sin and death. 3 The law was without power because it was made weak by our sinful selves. But God did what the law could not do: He sent his own Son to earth with the same human life that everyone else uses for sin. God sent him to be an offering to pay for sin. So God used a human life to destroy sin. 4 He did this so that we could be right just as the law said we must be. Now we don’t live following our sinful selves. We live following the Spirit.
5 People who live following their sinful selves think only about what they want. But those who live following the Spirit are thinking about what the Spirit wants them to do. 6 If your thinking is controlled by your sinful self, there is spiritual death. But if your thinking is controlled by the Spirit, there is life and peace. 7 Why is this true? Because anyone whose thinking is controlled by their sinful self is against God. They refuse to obey God’s law. And really they are not able to obey it. 8 Those who are ruled by their sinful selves cannot please God.
9 But you are not ruled by your sinful selves. You are ruled by the Spirit, if that Spirit of God really lives in you. But whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Christ. 10 Your body will always be dead because of sin. But if Christ is in you, then the Spirit gives you life, because Christ made you right with God. 11 God raised Jesus from death. And if God’s Spirit lives in you, he will also give life to your bodies that die. Yes, God is the one who raised Christ from death, and he will raise you to life through his Spirit living in you.
12 So, my brothers and sisters, we must not be ruled by our sinful selves. We must not live the way our sinful selves want. 13 If you use your lives to do what your sinful selves want, you will die spiritually. But if you use the Spirit’s help to stop doing the wrong things you do with your body, you will have true life.
14 The true children of God are those who let God’s Spirit lead them. 15 The Spirit that we received is not a spirit that makes us slaves again and causes us to fear. The Spirit that we have makes us God’s chosen children. And with that Spirit we cry out, “ Abba,[b] Father.” 16 And the Spirit himself speaks to our spirits and makes us sure that we are God’s children. 17 If we are God’s children, we will get the blessings God has for his people. He will give us all that he has given Christ. But we must suffer like Christ suffered. Then we will be able to share his glory.

We Will Have Glory in the Future​

18 We have sufferings now, but these are nothing compared to the great glory that will be given to us. 19 Everything that God made is waiting with excitement for the time when he will show the world who his children are. The whole world wants very much for that to happen. 20 Everything God made was allowed to become like something that cannot fulfill its purpose. That was not its choice, but God made it happen with this hope in view: 21 That the creation would be made free from ruin—that everything God made would have the same freedom and glory that belong to God’s children.
22 We know that everything God made has been waiting until now in pain like a woman ready to give birth to a child. 23 Not only the world, but we also have been waiting with pain inside us. We have the Spirit as the first part of God’s promise. So we are waiting for God to finish making us his own children. I mean we are waiting for our bodies to be made free. 24 We were saved to have this hope. If we can see what we are waiting for, that is not really hope. People don’t hope for something they already have. 25 But we are hoping for something we don’t have yet, and we are waiting for it patiently.
26 Also, the Spirit helps us. We are very weak, but the Spirit helps us with our weakness. We don’t know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit himself speaks to God for us. He begs God for us, speaking to him with feelings too deep for words. 27 God already knows our deepest thoughts. And he understands what the Spirit is saying, because the Spirit speaks for his people in the way that agrees with what God wants.
28 We know that in everything God works for the good of those who love him. These are the people God chose, because that was his plan. 29 God knew them before he made the world. And he decided that they would be like his Son. Then Jesus would be the firstborn of many brothers and sisters. 30 God planned for them to be like his Son. He chose them and made them right with him. And after he made them right, he gave them his glory.

God’s Love in Christ Jesus​

31 So what should we say about this? If God is for us, no one can stand against us. And God is with us. 32 He even let his own Son suffer for us. God gave his Son for all of us. So now with Jesus, God will surely give us all things. 33 Who can accuse the people God has chosen? No one! God is the one who makes them right. 34 Who can say that God’s people are guilty? No one! Christ Jesus died for us, but that is not all. He was also raised from death. And now he is at God’s right side, speaking to him for us. 35 Can anything separate us from Christ’s love? Can trouble or problems or persecution separate us from his love? If we have no food or clothes or face danger or even death, will that separate us from his love? 36 As the Scriptures say,
“For you we are in danger of death all the time.
People think we are worth no more than sheep to be killed.”
37 But in all these troubles we have complete victory through God, who has shown his love for us. 38-39 Yes, I am sure that nothing can separate us from God’s love—not death, life, angels, or ruling spirits. I am sure that nothing now, nothing in the future, no powers, nothing above us or nothing below us—nothing in the whole created world—will ever be able to separate us from the love God has shown us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Footnotes​

1. Romans 8:2 you Some Greek copies have “me.” Also in the next sentence.
2. Romans 8:15 Abba An Aramaic word that was used by Jewish children as a name for their fathers.

Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Copyright © 2006 by Bible League International
PLUS
Go deeper in this passage. With Bible Gateway Plus, trusted Study Bible notes and

 

[The Learner]

In Romans 7 Paul admits he struggles with sin

Most Christians admit they sin, usually unwillingly but sometimes even willingly.

I sin sometimes with thoughts of lust and envy. I don't choose to have these thoughts, they just jump into my mind.

Does that mean that Paul, myself and those other Christians are not born again?

Our Fight Against Sin​

7 You might think I am saying that sin and the law are the same. That is not true. But the law was the only way I could learn what sin means. I would never have known it is wrong to want something that is not mine. But the law said, “You must not want what belongs to someone else.”[a] 8 And sin found a way to use that command and make me want all kinds of things that weren’t mine. So sin came to me because of the command. But without the law, sin has no power. 9 Before I knew the law, I was alive. But when I heard the law’s command, sin began to live, 10 and I died spiritually. The command was meant to bring life, but for me it brought death. 11 Sin found a way to fool me by using the command to make me die.

12 Now the law is holy, and the command is holy and right and good. 13 Does this mean that something that is good brought death to me? No, it was sin that used the good command to bring me death. This shows how terrible sin really is. It can use a good command to produce a result that shows sin at its very worst.

The War Inside Us​

14 We know that the law is spiritual, but I am not. I am so human. Sin rules me as if I were its slave. 15 I don’t understand why I act the way I do. I don’t do the good I want to do, and I do the evil I hate. 16 And if I don’t want to do what I do, that means I agree that the law is good. 17 But I am not really the one doing the evil. It is sin living in me that does it. 18 Yes, I know that nothing good lives in me—I mean nothing good lives in the part of me that is not spiritual. I want to do what is good, but I don’t do it. 19 I don’t do the good that I want to do. I do the evil that I don’t want to do. 20 So if I do what I don’t want to do, then I am not really the one doing it. It is the sin living in me that does it.

21 So I have learned this rule: When I want to do good, evil is there with me. 22 In my mind I am happy with God’s law. 23 But I see another law working in my body. That law makes war against the law that my mind accepts. That other law working in my body is the law of sin, and that law makes me its prisoner. 24 What a miserable person I am! Who will save me from this body that brings me death? 25 I thank God for his salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So in my mind I am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful self I am a slave to the law of sin.

 

[The Learner]

Doctrines of demons... Geez. Whatever.
This will be my final post to you.

You call people who disagree with you heretics that follow doctrines of demons. And many people who disagree with you would call you a heretic (not me).
Where does that leave you?
Two Christians who disagree and are pointing fingers at each other, calling one another a heretic. Thats no good. It's a form of personal attack that gets you no where.

I prefer to accept the fact that different people have different opinions, interpretations and perspectives rather than slandering them with such terms.

An overwhelming majority of Christians disagree with you on this and you choose to align us all with demons and say we are going to hell. I certainly don't think any Christian is going to hell for misunderstanding a piece of theology. I think faith in Christ is the most important thing

You thought you were free from ever sinning yet you caught yourself intentionally sinning. You proved your belief to be wrong. Stop deceiving yourself.

We have different opinions on this matter. Difference is that you view me as a satanic heretic that's going to hell whereas I still view you as a sister in Christ.

All the best with your personal struggle
Much love and God bless

View attachment 88344

winner

 

[The Learner]

nothing to add, in a lot of pain

 

[The Learner]

2 Peter 1:5-15

Easy-to-Read Version

​

5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love. 8 If all these things are in you and growing, you will never fail to be useful to God. You will produce the kind of fruit that should come from your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But those who don’t grow in these blessings are blind. They cannot see clearly what they have. They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their past sins.
10 My brothers and sisters, God called you and chose you to be his. Do your best to live in a way that shows you really are God’s called and chosen people. If you do all this, you will never fall. 11 And you will be given a very great welcome into the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a kingdom that never ends.
12 You already know these things. You are very strong in the truth you have. But I am always going to help you remember them. 13 While I am still living here on earth, I think it is right for me to remind you of them. 14 I know that I must soon leave this body. Our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that. 15 I will try my best to make sure you remember these things even after I am gone.

 

[The Learner]

What is

Sanctification and when is it completed?​

 

[ProDeo]

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

But of course, the indwelling Holy Spirit can not sin.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Exactly, while walking in the light, in case we sin [1 John 1:8-10], we confess, we are forgiven by the blood of Christ and we continue our walk in the light.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Perhaps you can present an example from both Luther or Calvin.

Martin Luther "Sin boldly"):
"If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard, for you are quite a sinner."


In 1552 the Spanish Inquisition took action against Servetus, but he escaped their hands. Later, the French Inquisition declared Servetus worthy of death but had to burn him in effigy, due to his escape. In August 1553, Servetus traveled to Geneva where he was recognized and at Calvin’s request was imprisoned by the city magistrates. The trial of Michael Servetus lasted through October, at which time the Council of Geneva condemned him to death. Servetus was burned at the stake on October 27, 1553. The Calvinists and the Catholics both wanted him dead, but the Calvinists got to him first.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Martin Luther "Sin boldly"):
"If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard, for you are quite a sinner."

"""Pray hard, for you are quite a sinner."""
As we ALL are, inc you

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"""Pray hard, for you are quite a sinner."""
As we ALL are, inc you

I'm sure you are speaking for yourself...

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:4-9

I see you are from Australia. My mother was a war bride and was raised in Toowoomba, Queensland. I love it there.

 

[CrowCross]

Martin Luther "Sin boldly"):
"If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard, for you are quite a sinner."

WOW! Great words of Holy Spirit filled wisdom.
The point I see from this little blurb is that ALL of our sins are covered. I don't think Luther was telling people to go sin because they can. As he said....We will commit sins while we are here....the point is, if you're a christian your sins are forgiven...no matter what.

In 1552 the Spanish Inquisition took action against Servetus, but he escaped their hands. Later, the French Inquisition declared Servetus worthy of death but had to burn him in effigy, due to his escape. In August 1553, Servetus traveled to Geneva where he was recognized and at Calvin’s request was imprisoned by the city magistrates. The trial of Michael Servetus lasted through October, at which time the Council of Geneva condemned him to death. Servetus was burned at the stake on October 27, 1553. The Calvinists and the Catholics both wanted him dead, but the Calvinists got to him first.

I agree, burning someone at the stake for a religious belief is barbaric...but, it was 1552. It's what they did then.
It would be interesting to know what Michael Servetus was on trial for.

Then again the Noahide laws will one day be enforced...considering worshiping Jesus as worshiping a false God. Think of all the tribulation martyrs who get their heads sliced off.

 

[CrowCross]

"""Pray hard, for you are quite a sinner."""
As we ALL are, inc you

I think the lady of the first century is going a bit overboard on her interpretation.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I'm sure you are speaking for yourself...

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:4-9

I see you are from Australia. My mother was a war bride and was raised in Toowoomba, Queensland. I love it there.

Do you claim you no longer sin ?
Hmm, we can put that to the test here if you wish

 

[Lambano]

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness

Yeah, I guess lying is contrary to Torah and thus counts as anomia ("lawlessness") from a Jewish point of view.

 

[Lambano]

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

I'll go over my interpretation of 1 John 3:9 again for the purposes of this thread.

The stated purpose of John's letter is up front in chapter 2 verse 1: My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. I once counted them: John exhorts his "little children" in various ways to not sin more than 20 times in 5 chapters. Now, in chapter 3 verse 1, John establishes our identity as Children of God: See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! And in verse 9, John appeals to that identity: You are Children of God, and Children of God do not sin. That is completely consistent with John's stated purpose of his letter.

I'll also point out that if John thought his "little children" could not sin, this letter would not be necessary, and it would never have been written at all. And if he is assuming that his "little children" are not "born again", he should be telling them how to get "born again" if he wants them to stop sinning (assuming the "born again" cannot sin). Or (if John was Paul), he should be telling them how to "walk in the Spirit".