Sadly, what you faithfully believe cannot be proven from what is written! Therefore, what you believe is assumption, and opinion and does not align with true faith!
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Sadly, what you faithfully believe cannot be proven from what is written! Therefore, what you believe is assumption, and opinion and does not align with true faith!
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Where is there any record of Jesus coming back in like manner visibly and bodily back then after ascending visibly and bodily to heaven?
What is your hope for the future if you think the blessed hope of the appearing of our Great God and Savior, Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13), has already occurred?
You can say that, but it doesn't mean anything to me personally.
I do believe what is written, and I faithfully believe the Apostles and Yeshua wasn't liars.
It doesn't shake me to not believe Jesus is coming today.
I believe he already came like he promised.
It's just you differ with me, and that is totally okay. I haven't told you to change your own mind or anything. That choice is up to you!
You have the complete freedom to choose for yourself.
Why would one need proof if I have faith? That is my question to you. That is basically the run down to the question all together.
"IF there is no proof then I wont believe it..." That is the mentality here.
You can't prove Yahavah exist yet you believe he does.
The hope for me is to one day be with Yahavah, and his Son, in the Kingdom, after I pass away in this life.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Surely, such a significant event as Jesus coming visibly and bodily from heaven would have been recorded somewhere. Why would we not have any documentation anywhere of such an incredibly significant event?
No, the mentality is that there should at least be some proof of such a significant event, yet there is none.
If you think He already came from heaven in like manner as He ascended there, then where do you think He is now?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You must not understand what it means for Him to be on the throne with His Father and what it means for Him to be at the Father's right hand. Him being at the Father's right hand means He is on the throne with His Father. That's where He has been since His ascension.
At the same time Jesus was at the right hand of the Father He said this:
Revelation 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
See because of Revelation being completed this has happened. He is no longer at the right hand anymore.
@Spiritual Israelite
I don't care if you declare I am wrong, you are just someone who wants proof when I got none. Just like you can't prove God exist.
It's funny how Yahavah works, I love him dearly, and his Son! And you!
I don't care if you declare I am wrong, you are just someone who wants proof when I got none. Just like you can't prove God exist.
It's funny how Yahavah works, I love him dearly, and his Son! And you!
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
What do you think it means for Jesus to be at the right hand of the Father and what do you think is the difference between that and being on the Father's throne?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You have no proof for something that would definitely have some proof if it actually happened. We have documentation of what happened in 70 AD, but nothing about Jesus supposedly bodily returning at that time? That's complete nonsense.
Yes, I can. His existence is proven by what He has made. His Word says so. My proof of His existence is all around me and is even proven by my own body and all of the things that God has made.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [a]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [d]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
I love everyone, but I hate false doctrine and heresy, so that's why I'm telling you that you need to stop believing in your false full preterist doctrine and start looking forward to our blessed hope, the appearing of the Great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. There is no hope apart from that. He will come and ride the world of sin and death once and for all while ushering in the perfect and eternal new heavens and new earth.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL. That's all? Jesus just needs to literally shift over a bit? Why do you take that literally? Do you know that heaven itself is the Father's throne (Isaiah 66:1)? Do you think the right hand of the Father is some location outside of heaven?
Proof Proof Proof. Bring God down.
Bring God himself down though.
Doesn't matter. Bring God himself down. You can only suggest evidences.
I'll never change my mind on these things. You are hoping to see it, I hope you do. I don't put faith in that.
Yep, there was a shift in position.
You can try to argue your belief all day, I don't care man.
You must understand I have the freedom to believe how I choose to and I understand that believing Jesus having already come back.
Jacks up your own faithful believed preposition. It doesn't bother me. And I aint here to argue about it. The moderaters already know where I stand.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Explain that, keeping in mind that heaven itself is God's throne (Isaiah 66:1).
It's sad that you don't care. You obviously have very weak faith and it doesn't seem like you even know what you believe. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).
You are here talking about your position, so it would be foolish for you to expect no one to argue with you about it. Full preterism should not be allowed to be supported here, which is the case on other end times forums that I've seen.
If you continue to insult me I will place you on ignore. I've been civil to the best of my own ability, in Christ.
I will not put up with abuse, and insults, and mockery. I will not put up with gaslighting tactics.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I could not care less if you do that. You obviously are very stubborn and aren't willing to accept the truth, so go right ahead. I will talk to people who actually are open to the truth instead.
No matter how civil you think you are, you are still believing heretical doctrine, which is unacceptable.
Whatever. Accept the truth that you've been shown and don't use excuses for not doing so.
Thank you to @Spiritual Israelite, @rwb for chiming in with your thoughts.
The thing is, this thread is concerning the great and dreadful day which also includes the return. If you two believe that it has yet to happen I respect you as a fellow brother in Christ, because I aint fixing to fight ya over it. I aint fixing to debate over it. I aint fixing to say you ain't faithful.
People need to do their own research.
The thing is, this thread is concerning the great and dreadful day which also includes the return. If you two believe that it has yet to happen I respect you as a fellow brother in Christ, because I aint fixing to fight ya over it. I aint fixing to debate over it. I aint fixing to say you ain't faithful.
People need to do their own research.
To not believe Jesus is coming, whenever that may be, is a clear denial of what has been written! Nobody, that I am aware of, denies Jesus has already come in human flesh. The BOOK gives us blessed assurance of this FACT! Yes, Jesus came just as His coming had been foretold. The same BOOK also gives us blessed assurance that Jesus will come a second time in the same manner (human flesh) He was seen leaving this world. It is NOT OK to disagree on this FACT! We don't have freedom to believe whatever fits our preconceived opinions! We must prove from what is written (and you have NOT), and if we cannot prove what we believe, we must acknowledge that what we believe is NOT of faith, is NOT from what has been written of Him.
How do you define faith that saves?
The problem for you is how can you reconcile the FACT that Christ shows Himself to mankind through human flesh, human sight? He did not leave us to doubt but became human form that man might believe on Him for everlasting life. You do err, because Christ did not leave us to wonder but made Himself known by becoming flesh & blood, taking on the seed (human form) of Abraham.
Hebrews 2:14-18 (KJV) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Just as Christ did not take on the nature of angels (spirit beings), but took on the seed of Abraham (human being) to make reconciliation for the sins of people of faith (all people of faith), so too when He comes again, He shall be like the seed of Abraham (human form) not to make reconciliation for sins, but in immortal & incorruptible human flesh just as He has promised, which proves that the life we have through Him shall also be immortal & incorruptible, fit to live with Him forever throughout eternity!
I dont need your synopsis sir.
Just because you don't like me believing Jesus Christ has already came back and it messes with preposition, doesn't mean I have to change my mind.
I've read the bible, I'll take Bible for what it states and shares, because you are gonna have a hard time changing my mind.
It's obvious it is something you and the other man want to do is change my mind.
All to what? Join your prepositional point. I am not gonna do that.
I dont care how old a person is either... You can go back and read the bible for yourself. You both are capable of typing and reading.
(I realize saying I DONT CARE sounds horrible to some but what you believe is between you, yourself, and Yahavah. - just means I don't have to join with you.)
None of what is written in the bible is ever written directly to us.
So... please if you got questions or whatever which you dont it seems like.\
It seems like you just want to prove me wrong, but you can not do that.
I could be wrong myself, but I believe faithfully that I Jesus did come back, and It doesn't bother me that people don't believe it.
It's by faith, you and no one else can override that.
Yahavah can. He could shake my faith, and say (by the Spirit) Matthew don't believe that Jesus come back it's false, but he hasn't done that to me.
And I am not saying "change your mind."
But instead, just go back and read your bibles for what they state by the SPIRIT, Yahavah has given to you as his child.
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Faith that saves.
That is simply the gospel. Death, burial, and resurrection. Nothing more, nothing less. According to Paul.
Romans 1:15 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
1 Corinthians 15:4 He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said.
"We as human beings like to add on to that.
But you also gotta believer so and so,
and so and so, and so and so. Otherwise you
are not a believer!"
Gotta get with reality here.
However, I could never hang anything off of that anymore than the death, burial, and resurrection of Yeshua.
That is simply the gospel. Death, burial, and resurrection. Nothing more, nothing less. According to Paul.
Romans 1:15 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
1 Corinthians 15:4 He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said.
"We as human beings like to add on to that.
But you also gotta believer so and so,
and so and so, and so and so. Otherwise you
are not a believer!"
Gotta get with reality here.
However, I could never hang anything off of that anymore than the death, burial, and resurrection of Yeshua.
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